Felinoid Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 So, are we going to continue this, or were the first two just for show? Link to comment
CamDawg Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 The LE list is pretty long. Give us some time to put it together. Link to comment
CamDawg Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 Here we go. These are generated automatically based on their *given* names in the game. These can be a bit misleading--for example hgwra01.cre calls itself Gorion, but it's really the vampire wraith messing with you in ToB. aemerhob.cre - Hobgoblin Archer - originally NONE amtgen01.cre - Jamis Tombelthen - originally Lawful Neutral anno1.cre - Announcer - originally NONE argrim.cre - Lord Ketlaar Argrim - originally Neutral Evil army01.cre - Orc - originally NONE bdcoun01.cre - Council Member - originally True Neutral behobs01.cre - Beholder - originally Lawful Neutral behspe01.cre - Beholder - originally Lawful Neutral bhaal01.cre - Bhaal - originally Chaotic Evil booter.cre - Booter - originally True Neutral booter02.cre - Booter - originally True Neutral bounha.cre - Bounty Hunter - originally Neutral Evil bounha02.cre - Bounty Hunter - originally Lawful Good bounha03.cre - Bounty Hunter - originally Lawful Good bounha04.cre - Bounty Hunter - originally Lawful Neutral cederil.cre - Deril - originally Chaotic Good cguard1.cre - Cultist Guard - originally Lawful Neutral cguard2.cre - Cultist Guard - originally Lawful Neutral chalslay.cre - Slayer - originally True Neutral civamng1.cre - Amnish Soldier - originally Lawful Good copamb02.cre - Copper Coronet Guard - originally Lawful Neutral copamb05.cre - Copper Coronet Guard - originally Lawful Neutral copgreet.cre - Frankie - originally True Neutral corneil.cre - Corneil - originally Lawful Neutral cowenf02.cre - Cowled Enforcer - originally NONE cowenf2.cre - Cowled Enforcer - originally NONE cowld.cre - Cowled Wizard - originally NONE cowled01.cre - Cowled Wizard - originally NONE cscowl1.cre - Cowled Wizard - originally NONE cscowl2.cre - Cowled Wizard - originally NONE cscowl3.cre - Cowled Wizard - originally NONE cscowl4.cre - Cowled Wizard - originally NONE cscowl5.cre - Cowled Wizard - originally NONE cscowl6.cre - Cowled Wizard - originally NONE cscowl7.cre - Cowled Wizard - originally NONE cscowl8.cre - Cowled Wizard - originally NONE cscowl9.cre - Cowled Wizard - originally NONE cucow1.cre - Cowled Enforcer - originally NONE cucow2.cre - Cowled Enforcer - originally NONE cucow3.cre - Cowled Enforcer - originally NONE cutmelis.cre - Melissan - originally Lawful Good cuwiz1.cre - Cowled Enforcer - originally NONE cuwiz2.cre - Cowled Enforcer - originally NONE cuwiz3.cre - Cowled Enforcer - originally NONE cuwiz4.cre - Cowled Enforcer - originally NONE cuwiz5.cre - Cowled Enforcer - originally NONE cuwiz6.cre - Cowled Enforcer - originally NONE cuwizc.cre - Cowled Enforcer - originally NONE cuwizsu.cre - Cowled Enforcer - originally NONE daabol.cre - Aboleth - originally True Neutral degard.cre - Degardan - originally Chaotic Neutral dempit.cre - Pit Fiend - originally Chaotic Evil dempit01.cre - Pit Fiend - originally Chaotic Evil dempitsu.cre - Pit Fiend - originally Chaotic Evil docsol03.cre - Guard Captain - originally True Neutral drslayer.cre - Slayer - originally NONE duearc01.cre - Duergar - originally Lawful Neutral duecla01.cre - Ilyich - originally Lawful Neutral duegau01.cre - Duergar - originally Lawful Neutral duegau02.cre - Duergar - originally Lawful Neutral duemag01.cre - Mage - originally Lawful Neutral duemag02.cre - Mage - originally Lawful Neutral duergar.cre - Duergar - originally Lawful Neutral duergar1.cre - Duergar - originally Lawful Neutral duergar2.cre - Duergar - originally Lawful Neutral duergar3.cre - Duergar - originally Lawful Neutral elehob01.cre - Goblin Commando - originally NONE finmel01.cre - Melissan - originally Chaotic Evil gguard01.cre - Amnish Soldier - originally Lawful Neutral golbra01.cre - Brain Golem - originally Chaotic Good gphil02.cre - Philosopher - originally Lawful Neutral guard2.cre - Copper Coronet Guard - originally Lawful Neutral guard3.cre - Copper Coronet Guard - originally Lawful Neutral hamek.cre - Mekrath - originally NONE hgskl01.cre - Skeleton Cleric - originally True Neutral hgskl02.cre - Skeleton Assassin - originally Lawful Neutral hgskl03.cre - Skeleton Mage - originally True Neutral hgslv01.cre - Slave Woman - originally Lawful Neutral hgwra01.cre - Gorion - originally Lawful Good hlmafer.cre - Maferan - originally Lawful Neutral hlolaf.cre - Olaf Rassmusen - originally Lawful Neutral hlrevan.cre - Revanek - originally Lawful Neutral isaea.cre - Isaea Roenal - originally Lawful Neutral jade2.cre - Thenry - originally True Neutral jade3.cre - Jeremon - originally Chaotic Neutral jaga1.cre - Bessen - originally Chaotic Neutral korgoo01.cre - Goon - originally Lawful Neutral korgoo02.cre - Goon - originally Lawful Neutral korscroo.cre - Scrooloose - originally Lawful Neutral korshag.cre - Shagbag - originally Lawful Neutral lehtin.cre - Lehtinan - originally Lawful Neutral llynis.cre - Llynis - originally True Neutral madam.cre - Madam Nin - originally True Neutral maeguy02.cre - Thief - originally Chaotic Neutral magcle20.cre - Mage - originally True Neutral mage10a.cre - Zyntris - originally True Neutral mage10b.cre - Zyntris - originally True Neutral mage10c.cre - Zyntris - originally True Neutral mage10d.cre - Zyntris - originally True Neutral mage11.cre - Zyntris - originally True Neutral mage12a.cre - Zyntris - originally True Neutral mage12b.cre - Zyntris - originally True Neutral mage12c.cre - Zyntris - originally True Neutral mage12d.cre - Zyntris - originally True Neutral mage6a.cre - Zyntris - originally True Neutral mage6b.cre - Zyntris - originally True Neutral mage6c.cre - Zyntris - originally True Neutral mage8a.cre - Zyntris - originally True Neutral mage8b.cre - Zyntris - originally True Neutral mage8c.cre - Zyntris - originally True Neutral mdrak.cre - Maharajah - originally NONE mekimp01.cre - Imp - originally Neutral Evil mel01.cre - Melissan - originally Lawful Good meliss01.cre - Melissan - originally Lawful Good mgass01.cre - Sergeant Natula - originally Lawful Neutral mgass02.cre - Tyrian - originally Lawful Neutral mgass03.cre - Vilhelm - originally Lawful Neutral mgket01.cre - Lord Ketlaar Argrim - originally Lawful Neutral mgketg01.cre - Man-at-Arms - originally Lawful Neutral mgketg02.cre - Archer - originally Lawful Neutral mgkhol01.cre - Khollynnus Paac - originally True Neutral mugger1.cre - Shady Character - originally True Neutral mugger2.cre - Shady Character - originally True Neutral mugger3.cre - Shady Character - originally True Neutral mugger4.cre - Ogre - originally Neutral Evil mvguard1.cre - Assassin - originally Chaotic Neutral naldirt.cre - Officer Dirth - originally Lawful Good noblem1.cre - Nobleman - originally NONE noblem2.cre - Nobleman - originally NONE obssah02.cre - Sahuagin Priestess - originally NONE parfig16.cre - Jalin Tix - originally Lawful Neutral parmonk.cre - Mahar - originally Lawful Neutral pirmur03.cre - Front - originally Lawful Neutral pirmur04.cre - Guard - originally Lawful Neutral pirmur05.cre - Guard Capt - originally Lawful Neutral pirmur06.cre - Guard Capt - originally Lawful Neutral pirmur08.cre - Guard - originally Lawful Neutral pirmur11.cre - Guard - originally Lawful Neutral pirmur12.cre - Guard - originally Lawful Neutral pirmur13.cre - Guard Capt - originally Lawful Neutral pirpir01.cre - Pirate - originally Lawful Neutral pirpir02.cre - Andar the Pirate - originally Lawful Neutral pirpir03.cre - Olben the Pirate - originally Lawful Neutral pirpir05.cre - Chremy - originally NONE pirsea01.cre - Pirate Captain - originally True Neutral pirsea02.cre - Pirate - originally Lawful Neutral pirsea03.cre - Pirate - originally True Neutral plshhg01.cre - Hobgoblin Slayer - originally NONE plshhg02.cre - Hobgoblin Wizard - originally NONE ppaltk1.cre - Kobold Shaman - originally NONE ppbhaal.cre - Bhaal - originally Chaotic Evil ppdesh.cre - Desharik - originally Lawful Neutral ppdesh2.cre - Desharik - originally Lawful Neutral ppduel1.cre - Andante - originally Lawful Neutral ppduelc.cre - Duel Coordinator - originally Lawful Neutral ppguarda.cre - Pirate - originally Lawful Neutral ppldr01.cre - Pirate Leader - originally Lawful Neutral ppmag01.cre - Pirate Mage - originally True Neutral pppirate.cre - Pirate - originally Lawful Neutral ppright.cre - Dunbar - originally Lawful Neutral ppsail01.cre - Pirate - originally Lawful Neutral ppsail02.cre - Pirate - originally Lawful Neutral ppsail03.cre - Pirate - originally Lawful Neutral ppsuna.cre - Suna Seni - originally Lawful Neutral ppthf01.cre - Pirate - originally Lawful Neutral ppthf02.cre - Pirate - originally Lawful Neutral rakmah01.cre - Maharajah - originally NONE rakraj01.cre - Rajah - originally NONE rakruh01.cre - Ruhk - originally NONE raksha01.cre - Rakshasa - originally Chaotic Neutral ralej.cre - Rayic Gethras - originally NONE reband03.cre - Bandit - originally Lawful Neutral rerak01.cre - Traveler - originally Chaotic Neutral rerak02.cre - Traveler - originally Chaotic Neutral rerak03.cre - Traveler - originally Chaotic Neutral rerak04.cre - Traveler - originally Chaotic Neutral rerak05.cre - Traveler - originally Chaotic Neutral rerak06.cre - Traveler - originally Chaotic Neutral resuna.cre - Suna Seni - originally True Neutral rethie02.cre - Slaver - originally Chaotic Neutral rethie03.cre - Slaver - originally Chaotic Neutral rethug01.cre - Thug - originally True Neutral rethug02.cre - Mage - originally True Neutral rethug03.cre - Thug - originally NONE rethug04.cre - Thug - originally Chaotic Neutral rigen01.cre - Lord Igen Tombelthen - originally Lawful Neutral rumar01.cre - Umar - originally Chaotic Evil sargrd05.cre - Thief - originally Lawful Neutral sargrd06.cre - Mage - originally True Neutral sargrd09.cre - Thief - originally Lawful Neutral sevpat02.cre - Sorcerous Amon - originally True Neutral sevpat03.cre - Pooky - originally True Neutral sewarc01.cre - Orc Archer - originally Lawful Neutral sewarc02.cre - Orc Archer - originally Lawful Neutral sewrak01.cre - Rakshasa - originally Chaotic Neutral sewyag02.cre - Orc Archer - originally Lawful Neutral slayer.cre - Slayer - originally NONE stolethf.cre - Shadow Thief - originally Lawful Good suadsaan.cre - Adsaan - originally NONE surakmah.cre - Maharajah - originally NONE surakraj.cre - Rajah - originally NONE surakruh.cre - Ruhk - originally NONE suraksha.cre - Rakshasa - originally Chaotic Neutral surakw1.cre - Rakshasa - originally Chaotic Neutral surakw2.cre - Rakshasa - originally Chaotic Neutral surakw3.cre - Rakshasa - originally Chaotic Neutral surakw4.cre - Rakshasa - originally Chaotic Neutral surly.cre - Surly - originally True Neutral suziyaad.cre - Ziyaad - originally NONE tantug01.cre - Thug - originally Lawful Neutral tantug02.cre - Thug - originally Lawful Neutral tantug03.cre - Thug - originally Lawful Neutral telpit2.cre - Pit Fiend - originally Chaotic Evil thief7.cre - Anishai - originally Chaotic Neutral tiana.cre - Tiana - originally True Neutral tolmag01.cre - Mage - originally NONE tolmag02.cre - Mage - originally NONE trrak02.cre - Saadat - originally Chaotic Neutral trrak03.cre - Jalaal - originally Chaotic Neutral udmaster.cre - The Master Brain - originally Chaotic Evil vaelag.cre - Vaelag - originally Chaotic Neutral yaga02.cre - Lieutenant Mage - originally True Neutral yaga04.cre - Lieutenant Cleric - originally True Neutral ysgrunt.cre - Yaga-Shura Soldier - originally Lawful Neutral ysguar02.cre - Yaga-Shura Soldier - originally Lawful Neutral ysguar03.cre - Yaga-Shura Mage - originally True Neutral ysguar04.cre - Yaga-Shura Soldier - originally Lawful Neutral ysguar05.cre - Yaga-Shura Soldier - originally Lawful Neutral ysguar06.cre - Yaga-Shura Officer - originally Lawful Neutral ysmage01.cre - Yaga-Shura Mage - originally True Neutral yssold01.cre - Yaga-Shura Soldier - originally Lawful Neutral yssold02.cre - Yaga-Shura Soldier - originally Lawful Neutral yssold03.cre - Yaga-Shura Officer - originally Lawful Neutral yssold13.cre - Yaga-Shura Soldier - originally Lawful Neutral yssold14.cre - Yaga-Shura Mage - originally True Neutral yssold15.cre - Yaga-Shura Officer - originally Lawful Neutral zilarc01.cre - Black Reaver - originally Lawful Neutral zilfgt01.cre - Black Reaver - originally Lawful Neutral zilfgt02.cre - Black Reaver - originally Lawful Neutral zilmag01.cre - Black Reaver - originally True Neutral zomblo01.cre - Zombie Lord - originally Chaotic Neutral Edit: Also check the alignment overview thread. 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Felinoid Posted October 29, 2006 Author Share Posted October 29, 2006 amtgen01: Yes, he does sound rather stereotypical LN, but if you put a bored tone on the same words (there's no sound file to know for sure), it fits LE rather nicely. I think it's a good change, but not as a non-optional one. argrim: Nobles have to be lawful? He seems selfish enough to me. behspe01: Spectator beholder-kin are LN. Note the different 'general' script. booter (both): Ugh. He strikes me as more CE (Korgan-dialogue type disregard for others plus joy in suffering) than anything else. bounha (all 4): Bounty hunters don't have to be lawful to follow the law. In fact, the PnP thief kit of the same name requires a non-lawful alignment (mentioned only as a point of interest). And arresting convicted criminals? Yeah, that's SO evil. 02-04 would be good for OBC though, I think. Especially as they're cutscene-only creatures. cguard1 & 2: You can't catch evil from a handshake, you know. Worshipping the Unseeing Eye (a rather new 'deity') doesn't make them evil. Maybe OBC. civamng1: ...Next you're going to be telling me Miko is evil. The guard upholds the law and is proud of the city. LN at worst. docsol03: Reading his dialogue, I'd peg him more as Neutral Evil; he doesn't seem to give a crap about the law. Melissan: I find it highly likely they paid attention to finmel01, and the others are the mistakes. Unless there are any LE Melissan clones out there, or you can trace some sort of copy on finmel01. gguard01: I can easily see an LE type arresting a beggar, but I can also easily see an LN character do the same. OTOH, I can't quite see an LE type just taking Viconia's word like this guy does, or backing down from Keldorn when he's right by the letter of the law. Leave him. golbra01: Most golems are non-sentient, though being "brain" golems they might not be. But they're still constructs. TN. jade02 & 03: Why?! Just plain why. They don't do anything, don't say anything. All they do is accompany Dermin (who is CN). What could possibly make you think they're LE? mage#x: 15 TN Zyntrises aren't enough to convince you? Seriously, where do these guys come in? mgket01: On a note unrelated to aligments, I laughed myself silly when I saw his race was flagged as "Mace". mugger4: Ignoring for the moment that he could very well be NE, ogre racial alignment is CE, not LE. parfig16 & parmonk: Where do these guys show up again? Without dialogue files (on any of the PARs) or any special scripts, we'd need to know what they do in order to judge them. pirpir01: All he can say is "Uhhhhhh..."? He MUST be evil! pirsea01 - 03: We've hashed this out before and you didn't listen to me then. I can't imagine why you'd listen to me now... Still OBC. Various PP pirates: You can certainly make some arguments for those that have dialogue, but turning every pirate in Brynnlaw LE...just no. For the players' sake, put these dubious changes in OBC. (Mixing it up on the L/C scale would be nice, too. Not all pirates are lawful.) Suna Seni: Wha? Does that mean Yoshimo is LE too, for being under a Geas? She's probably not TN, but I really don't think Valygar would go for an LE type. zomblo01: Zombie Lords are NE. You're right, that was a lot. (You guys must really have a thing for LE. ) I'll get to the other alignments tomorrow. Link to comment
pro5 Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 "Melissan lies, Melissan deceives...". Where have I heard that before? Hmm, I'm not sure lawful suits her, perhaps I'll change it in my game. Link to comment
Gorilym Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 I don't see how Melissan could have attained her position in the "Bhaalist church" if she wasn't LE. While I guess she could technically be within one step of Bhaal's alignment, LG? No frikkin' way. Link to comment
CamDawg Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 I don't see how Melissan could have attained her position in the "Bhaalist church" if she wasn't LE. While I guess she could technically be within one step of Bhaal's alignment, LG? No frikkin' way. It's not 3e, so she has to be LE. Link to comment
Gorilym Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 It's not 3e, so she has to be LE. Right. Then there's really no alternative at all to making her LE, good change. Link to comment
Zyraen Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 mgket01: On a note unrelated to aligments, I laughed myself silly when I saw his race was flagged as "Mace". <== he's mace so the Imprisonment Rune works only on him, I think. Link to comment
devSin Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 This is also the reason you see hobgoblin paladins or ToB's LEATHER peasants. Link to comment
Felinoid Posted October 30, 2006 Author Share Posted October 30, 2006 I don't see how Melissan could have attained her position in the "Bhaalist church" if she wasn't LE. While I guess she could technically be within one step of Bhaal's alignment, LG? No frikkin' way. It's not 3e, so she has to be LE. Unless there's some sort of FR-specific rule I'm unaware of, priests do not have to be the exact same alignment as their deity (with the notable exception of druids). And if they do...what of Anomen? Or Viconia if you change her? Link to comment
CamDawg Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Unless there's some sort of FR-specific rule I'm unaware of, priests do not have to be the exact same alignment as their deity (with the notable exception of druids). And if they do...what of Anomen? Or Viconia if you change her? Worshipers (i.e. Viconia and Anomen) do not, but kitted clerics do: My name is Amelyssan the Blackhearted, High Matriarch and greatest Deathstalker of my Lord Murder's Bhaalist temple. I doubt she would rise to such a rank being diametrically opposed to Bhaal along one of the alignment axes. Link to comment
Felinoid Posted October 31, 2006 Author Share Posted October 31, 2006 Worshipers (i.e. Viconia and Anomen) do not, but kitted clerics do: Um, no? Even talking strictly about BG2, you'll notice that Priests of Lathander only have to be ANY Good, Priests of Helm only have to be ANY [G/E] Neutral, and Priests of Talos only have to be ANY Evil. My name is Amelyssan the Blackhearted, High Matriarch and greatest Deathstalker of my Lord Murder's Bhaalist temple. I doubt she would rise to such a rank being diametrically opposed to Bhaal along one of the alignment axes. And again I bring up Anomen and Viconia. People change. Especially when something happens that's as life-shattering as the death of your deity. She was probably LE before, but now...? Link to comment
berelinde Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Regarding the allowed alignments *of the PC*, it was probably based on a decision to streamline BG2 game development somewhat. Something like: let's pick 3 deities and just launch this game, already. Don't forget that a CN protagonist can still worship Helm, whose adherants are supposed to be very orderly individuals indeed. Let me emphasize that my point here is not to draw attention to BioWare's shortcuts. That's old news. I simply point out that choices available to the PC should not be considered when assigning kits or alignments to NPCs. Yes, I know there are BioWare party-joinable NPC clerics that do not adhere to the letter of 2e PnP, but that is not in question here. Just as a racial decision like "halflings are considered lawful good, for the most part" with a few exceptions, blanket statements like "unless this NPC exhibits behavior radically deviant from that of their expected alignment, they should be the same alignment as their god" are valid. Link to comment
devSin Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Doesn't Gorion's alignment already change when you discover he's bad nuts? Methinks they wanted to trick you but good. We can get rid of almost all of those MAGE*s (no, they're not all "Zyntris," and yes, all but 3 or 4 are unused). Link to comment
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