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Alignment Changes: CE


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acolyte1.cre - Talon Zogas - originally True Neutral
ar18prie.cre - Priest of Cyric - originally Lawful Evil
bazeye01.cre - Iycanth the Mad - originally True Neutral
bazeye02.cre - Iycanth the Mad - originally True Neutral
c6drow1.cre - Drow - originally Lawful Neutral
c6kngt3.cre - Storm Knight - originally True Neutral
caehan.cre - Caehan - originally Chaotic Good
chang02.cre - Angelo - originally Neutral Good
cldad.cre - Talon Nirkhas - originally True Neutral
clstkn01.cre - Storm Knight - originally True Neutral
cltalp01.cre - Weather Master - originally Lawful Good
daqilue.cre - Qilue - originally NONE
dvampfl.cre - Vampire - originally Chaotic Neutral
eletro02.cre - Troll - originally NONE
gnlcap01.cre - Gnoll Captain - originally Chaotic Neutral
gnleli01.cre - Gnoll Elite - originally Chaotic Neutral
gnlsla01.cre - Gnoll Slasher - originally Chaotic Neutral
gnlvet01.cre - Gnoll Veteran - originally Chaotic Neutral
gnlwar01.cre - Gnoll - originally Chaotic Neutral
gnoll01.cre - Gnoll - originally Chaotic Neutral
gnollhp1.cre - Gnoll - originally Chaotic Neutral
gnollsu.cre - Gnoll Elite - originally Chaotic Neutral
gpmage1.cre - N'ashtar - originally Chaotic Good
gppri1.cre - Chandrilla - originally Chaotic Good
gpsimb.cre - Simbja - originally NONE
gron.cre - Theshal - originally Chaotic Good
hlketta.cre - Ketta - originally Chaotic Neutral
hlketta2.cre - Ketta - originally Chaotic Neutral
hlskull.cre - Golden Skull - originally True Neutral
hobarc01.cre - Hobgoblin Archer - originally NONE
hobarc02.cre - Hobgoblin Archer - originally NONE
hobcap01.cre - Hobgoblin Captain - originally NONE
hobeli01.cre - Hobgoblin Elite - originally NONE
hobwar01.cre - Hobgoblin Warrior - originally NONE
hobwiz01.cre - Hobgoblin Wizard - originally NONE
jaerto1.cre - Jarden - originally Lawful Good
jaerto2.cre - Turg - originally Lawful Good
jaerto3.cre - Tamile - originally Chaotic Neutral
jaerto4.cre - Wurn - originally Lawful Good
jaertof.cre - Ertof Dand - originally Lawful Good
jaga2.cre - Kail - originally Lawful Neutral
jaga4.cre - Iko - originally Neutral Evil
kalah.cre - Kalah - originally Chaotic Neutral
kalah2.cre - Kalah - originally Chaotic Neutral
kaol.cre - Kaol - originally True Neutral
kaypal01.cre - Anarg - originally Chaotic Neutral
kptrol01.cre - Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
kptrol02.cre - Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
kptrol03.cre - Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
kptrol04.cre - Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
kptrol05.cre - Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
kptrol06.cre - Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
nalla.cre - Stormherald Nallabir - originally Chaotic Good
obshal01.cre - Entu - originally Lawful Neutral
obshal03.cre - Necre - originally Lawful Neutral
obshal06.cre - Taibela - originally True Neutral
ogre01.cre - Ogre - originally NONE
plass02.cre - Assassin - originally Lawful Good
plass03.cre - Assassin - originally Lawful Good
plass04.cre - Assassin - originally Lawful Good
plyogre.cre - Ogre - originally NONE
ppduel2.cre - Dirbish the Black - originally Lawful Neutral
pptiax.cre - Tiax - originally True Neutral
pptiax2.cre - Tiax - originally True Neutral
pries10a.cre - Zorl - originally NONE
pries10c.cre - Zorl - originally Lawful Evil
pries12b.cre - Zeela - originally True Neutral
pries6a.cre - Zorl - originally NONE
pries6b.cre - Zorl - originally NONE
pries6c.cre - Zorl - originally NONE
pries8a.cre - Zorl - originally NONE
pries8b.cre - Zorl - originally NONE
pries8c.cre - Zorl - originally NONE
priss.cre - Priss - originally True Neutral
reband01.cre - Bandit - originally Chaotic Neutral
reband02.cre - Bandit - originally Chaotic Neutral
rorcs01.cre - Orog - originally NONE
ruffian.cre - Amalas - originally Chaotic Neutral
rumar.cre - Rumar - originally True Neutral
sahkng01.cre - King Ixilthetocal - originally Lawful Evil
sahkng02.cre - King Ixilthetocal - originally Lawful Evil
samia.cre - Samia - originally Chaotic Neutral
sarbul04.cre - Gromnir Soldier - originally Lawful Neutral
sarbul05.cre - Gromnir Soldier - originally Lawful Neutral
sarbul06.cre - Il-Khan Soldier - originally Lawful Neutral
sarbul07.cre - Il-Khan Soldier - originally Lawful Neutral
scyarryl.cre - Talon Yarryl - originally True Neutral
sevpat01.cre - Mencar Pebblecrusher - originally Chaotic Neutral
sevpat04.cre - Smaeluv Orcslicer - originally Lawful Neutral
slapri.cre - Priest of Cyric - originally NONE
suna.cre - Suna Seni - originally Lawful Neutral
talkni01.cre - Storm Knight - originally True Neutral
talkni02.cre - Storm Knight - originally True Neutral
talmiss.cre - Mistress Ada - originally True Neutral
talmiss2.cre - Mistress Ada - originally True Neutral
talvilon.cre - Acolyte Vilon - originally True Neutral
tanthf01.cre - Rune Assassin - originally Chaotic Neutral
telsuc1.cre - Alu-Fiend - originally Lawful Neutral
teltief3.cre - Tiefling - originally Chaotic Neutral
trevil01.cre - Lord Khellon Menold - originally NONE
trolde01.cre - Desert Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
trolde02.cre - Desert Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
trolfr01.cre - Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
trolfr02.cre - Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
trolgi01.cre - Giant Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
trolgi02.cre - Giant Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
trolic01.cre - Ice Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
trolic02.cre - Ice Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
trolic03.cre - Blizzard Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
trolic04.cre - Blizzard Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
troll01.cre - Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
troll02.cre - Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
troll03.cre - Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
trollens.cre - Giant Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
trollsm2.cre - Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
trolsi01.cre - Spirit Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
trolsi02.cre - Spirit Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
trolsn01.cre - Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
trolsn02.cre - Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
trolsp01.cre - Spectral Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
trolsp02.cre - Spectral Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
troluo01.cre - Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
uddoor01.cre - Drow - originally Lawful Neutral
uddoor02.cre - Drow - originally Lawful Neutral
uddoor03.cre - Drow - originally Lawful Neutral
uddrow06.cre - Ilmryn - originally Chaotic Neutral
uddrow12.cre - Drow - originally NONE
uddrow14.cre - Drow - originally NONE
uddrow15.cre - Drow - originally NONE
uddrow18.cre - Drow - originally True Neutral
uddrow20.cre - Egg Guard - originally Lawful Neutral
uddrow21.cre - Egg Guard - originally Lawful Neutral
uddrow23.cre - Drow - originally Lawful Neutral
uddrow24.cre - Drow - originally Lawful Neutral
uddrow25.cre - Drow - originally Lawful Neutral
uddrow26.cre - Drow - originally Lawful Neutral
uddrow27.cre - Drow - originally Lawful Neutral
uddrow28.cre - Drow - originally Lawful Neutral
uddrow29.cre - Drow - originally Lawful Neutral
uddrow31.cre - Drow - originally NONE
uddrow36.cre - Handmaiden of Lolth - originally True Neutral
uddrow37.cre - Drow - originally Lawful Neutral
udrunner.cre - Drow - originally Lawful Neutral
vampbat.cre - Vampire - originally True Neutral
vicg2.cre - Fanatic - originally Neutral Good
victown1.cre - Commoner - originally Neutral Good
victown2.cre - Commoner - originally Chaotic Good
victown3.cre - Nobleman - originally Neutral Good
yssold04.cre - Yaga-Shura Elite - originally Lawful Neutral
yssold16.cre - Cleric Of Talos - originally NONE

 

Edit: Also check the alignment overview thread.

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Don't think we know enough about Rumar. OK, he's a cad, so LG is unlikely, but I don't know about CE. But then again, he's engaged in lying and cheating, generally regarded as evil behavior, and he is doing it for his own benefit, which is chaotic.

 

OK, never mind.

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If cheating on your wife makes you chaotic evil, about 70% of all men would be qualify for the alignment. I always got the impression that Rumar was scared out of his gourd by the cat-fight between Priss and his wife rather than taking pleasure in it.....so the reasoning for making him CE eludes me.

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priss.cre - Priss - originally True Neutral
rumar.cre - Rumar - originally True Neutral

 

These changes don't seem right at all. TN is bad, but CE is worse. Chaotic for sure, but CN or even CG would be more suitable.

 

trolde01.cre - Desert Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
trolde02.cre - Desert Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
trolfr01.cre - Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
trolfr02.cre - Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
trolgi01.cre - Giant Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
trolgi02.cre - Giant Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
trolic01.cre - Ice Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
trolic02.cre - Ice Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
trolic03.cre - Blizzard Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
trolic04.cre - Blizzard Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
troll01.cre - Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
troll02.cre - Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
troll03.cre - Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
trollens.cre - Giant Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
trollsm2.cre - Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
trolsi01.cre - Spirit Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
trolsi02.cre - Spirit Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
trolsn01.cre - Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
trolsn02.cre - Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
trolsp01.cre - Spectral Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
trolsp02.cre - Spectral Troll - originally Chaotic Evil
troluo01.cre - Troll - originally Chaotic Evil

 

What am I missing here? These trolls were changed from CE to CE? :)

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If cheating on your wife makes you chaotic evil,

It would seem to fit the bill of "you're hurting someone and betraying their trust for your own selfish ends".

Between 45 and 70%** of all men cheat on their wives/girlfriends/etc. By the logic being used to determine Rumar's alignment, 45-70% of all men are chaotic evil. Putting infidelity on par with murder (which also doesn't necessarily make you evil) doesn't work for me.

 

**Depending on which, if any, poll you want to trust.

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Keldorn's wife cheats on him, so by this logic she should be CE too. I'll leave you to ponder how incredibly unlikely a LG man marrying a CE woman would be... :).

 

Also, it's possible for the PC to cheat on his love interest with Phaere, so the argument presented above would also suggest an automatic fall to CE for any PC undertaking such an action. Which would be rather silly, to say the least.

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As a female, I don't want to believe that 45 to 70% of all men cheat on their significant others.

 

But that is straying from the topic.

 

Lies and deception are not good acts, no matter how you apply the moral code. If infidelity was a moral act, people would not feel guilt about it.

 

The question becomes: does that single act of infidelity define the person?

 

For most people who have committed an act of infidelity, whatever their number, I would like to think that that does not define their personalities.

 

But for poor Rumar, that is all we know about him. We are never given the opportunity to see him working in the Athkatla docks, building houses for the homeless, or dishing out soup in the slums. He might be a prince with a significant flaw, but all we are shown is the flaw.

 

And he is anxious if you talk to him about being caught, so he knows it's wrong, but is doing it anyway. He is afraid if you bring Tiana into the picture, but who wouldn't be? Sure, she represents the security he endangers, but she is also a formidable woman!

 

I'd classify *her* alignment as "neutral had-it-up-to-here".

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But for poor Rumar, that is all we know about him. We are never given the opportunity to see him working in the Athkatla docks, building houses for the homeless, or dishing out soup in the slums. He might be a prince with a significant flaw, but all we are shown is the flaw.

He could also kick stray kittens; this is why Bioware based alignments in BG based strictly on what the characters did in the game, and it's the same standard we're using for BG2.

 

For me, the striking bit about Rumar is his seeming indifference to his wife's feelings--compare and contrast Rumar to Keldorn's wife Maria. Mistakes can be made by anyone; showing remorse (or not) and learning from them can reveal a lot about a person's actual character. For me, there's also a different matter for cheating on a spouse as opposed to a significant other. They're both scummy, but the former is more egregious as it breaks a vow taken before your-deity-of-choice. (Well, at least presumably--my knowledge of Faerunian marriage ceremonies is a bit spotty. :) ) That being said, I'm still on the fence with a shift to CE.

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Between 45 and 70%** of all men cheat on their wives/girlfriends/etc.

I contend that this argument stems from its unfortunate wide social acceptance rather than a lack of moral dubiousness. Turn back a few centuries and you find a high percentage of people indulging in slavery--this makes it no less evil.

 

The argument you should be making is whether this sole demonstration of behaviour is enough to base an alignment on. Make it.

 

Also, it's possible for the PC to cheat on his love interest with Phaere, so the argument presented above would also suggest an automatic fall to CE for any PC undertaking such an action. Which would be rather silly, to say the least.

A fall to CE, given the nature of the game's default alignment system, is inappropriate, yes. I believe I implement a Virtue penalty here, however.

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In all seriousness, I still don't see a compelling reason to alter Rumar's alignment. The question we should be asking isn't whether or not CE makes sense but rather whether it is concievable that a TN person would do what he does. I consider it perfectly feasible that a TN character could cheat on a spouse. Seriously, giving Rumar the same alignment you would give to murderers and brigands just because he's been fucking around? It's not like he's a pirate......

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Per the (3e) Players handbook:

Chaotic evil characters do whatever their greed, hatred, and lust for destruction drives them to do. They are hot-tempered, vicious and arbitrarily violent. They are simply out for whatever they can get, and are ruthless and brutal in their ways.
I think you have to do something a little worse than cheat on your wife to qualify for Chaotic Evil alignment.
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Per the (3e) Players handbook:
Chaotic evil characters do whatever their greed, hatred, and lust for destruction drives them to do. They are hot-tempered, vicious and arbitrarily violent. They are simply out for whatever they can get, and are ruthless and brutal in their ways.
I think you have to do something a little worse than cheat on your wife to qualify for Chaotic Evil alignment.

Rather than the description from a rule set that isn't even used for the game, the BG2 description may be more relevant (and it still makes your point):

 

CHAOTIC EVIL: These characters are the bane of all that is good and organized. Chaotic evil characters are motivated by the desire for personal gain and pleasure. They see absolutely nothing wrong with taking whatever they want by whatever means possible. Laws and governments are the tools of weaklings unable to fend for themselves. The strong have the right to take what they want, and the weak are there to be exploited. When chaotic evil characters band together, they are not motivated by a desire to cooperate, but rather to oppose powerful enemies. Such a group can be held together only by a strong leader capable of bullying his underlings into obedience. Since leadership is based on raw power, a leader is likely to be replaced at the first sign of weakness by anyone who can take his position away from him by any method. Bloodthirsty buccaneers and monsters of low Intelligence are fine examples of chaotic evil personalities.
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