Multiromancing in the committed state?

[Kulyok]

In most released romance mods, all other romances go inactive after one of them hits "2" - the committed state. As such, Kelsey and Edwin stop wooing PC after she accepts Anomen's kiss, Ajantis, Xan and Gavin tactfully give way after PC lets Coran into her bed, Amber wouldn't want to get in Jaheira's way, and so on.

 

There are exceptions, though: Solaufein would romance PC regardless of her other choices, and Kivan's romance-related content continues even after other romance(s) enter the committed stage.

 

Which alternative do you prefer?

[jastey]

I think I know your motivation for this poll, but you have to distinguish the following two situations imho:

 

A: several NPC romance the PC, all of them started nearly at the same time. In this case, my answer is "no": If the PC chooses one, the others should accept the recent decision and stand back. Persuing now would be more than tactless.

 

B: PC is already engaged with an NPC she met at the Sword Coast. Now she travels with new comrades, her fiance is present or even still absent due to several reasons. In this case my answer would be "yes, probably, depending on the NPC's character". A newly joined NPC didn't experience the romance of the PC with her fiance, he is with her here and now. If he gets overwhelmed by his feelings: Why not reveal his feelings in a tactful manner? Maybe her feelings for her fiance are not that intense any more, if they ever were.

[Magnus_025]

I think as Jastev does. And it will also be different depending on which alignment that supposed NpC has, but maybe alignment has nothing to do with this, love can be wild and blind you, so...

 

 

If as I think you are balancing new possibilities for the Gloomy-one, the two different options Jastev told are perfect.

[Kulyok]

I don't think they differ any. In both cases, he'll/she'll become a jerk who pursues committed women(and even worse than Coran, as I mentioned before) immediately after, in my opinion.

 

I can see an exception - a prodigial NPC who doesn't really mind whether the PC is engaged, married or committed to someone - he just wants to sleep around or whatever. In which case, I'd guess, other suitors will raise their eyebrows at the very least. But this exception aside, multiromancing beyond a certain point doesn't seem realistic to me.

[jastey]

The case of engaged PC, and I am talking like "has been engaged since the Sword Coast, now we are in BGII, and the new NPC never met the PC before, i.e. has never met her while she was single":

 

I have never seen a romance that goes "He, CHARNAME, I love you so much since I met you two minutes ago, I do not care that you just went and prepared your wedding ceremony with your fiance, I love you so much, please come with me".

 

What I see is: NPC starts talking, PC gives encouraging (or, at least not decouraging) answers.

NPC starts talking personal, PC gives encouraging (or, at least not decouraging) answers.

NPC makes love confession. I am not talking about the "sleeping around" kind of lover, not at all.

 

This way, I do not see anyone who made himself a jerk, other than the PC, who had quite a lot of possibilities to end the NPC's advances, if she wanted to.

[Kulyok]

I don't see how a new an NPC will start 'talking personal' - that is, will go the romantic line at all, if PC is engaged/committed from the start. I think (correct me if I am mistaken) that we are talking about adultery here - such as PC cheating on Kelsey with CN Anomen in ToB. And unless the NPC is heavily into cheating, I don't see how it may happen with your casual love interest.

[jastey]

Maybe we are talking different things here. I am not talking about cheating, short love affair, all of a sudden spending the night with another NPC because he asked so nice, etc.

 

What I mean is the slow, very slow, subtle, knowing one better while being and working together for a long time. Talking, making common things together, talking some more. Talking personal in the sense of "my family", "my hobbies" (sorry if "talking personal" has a certain meaning, I am not too firm with idioms). Exchanging smiles. Knowing of the other's favorites. Make small surprises. Talking under a moonlit sky. And all in all: PC encouraging (intentional or not) the NPC to proceed with his love intentions towards her.

 

It's the situation about "starts little, becomes big". I can very well imagine this to happen, and the term "jerk" doesn't appear at all.

[Kulyok]

What I mean is the slow, very slow, subtle, knowing one better while being and working together for a long time. Talking, making common things together, talking some more. Talking personal in the sense of "my family", "my hobbies" (sorry if "talking personal" has a certain meaning, I am not too firm with idioms). Exchanging smiles. Knowing of the other's favorites. Make small surprises. Talking under a moonlit sky. And all in all: PC encouraging (intentional or not) the NPC to proceed with his love intentions towards her.

 

Why, yes, that's a word-to-word definition of "having an emotional affair" - maybe not the first part, but the talking under a moonlit sky thing, definitely.

 

I think we are talking about the same thing here, essentially. That PC's romance with NPC1 is committed(from BG1 or from BG2), and NPC2 just joins the party. This very thing.

 

To me it seems that NPC2 will start his or her lovetalks only in two cases:

1) NPC2 doesn't know that PC and NPC1 are engaged - which is probably unrealistic, since most romances, with their PC-initiated and NPC-initiated flirts, are not exactly secret affairs.

2) NPC2 is fully aware that PC is in a committed relationship and proceeds regardless. Which, yes, casts a certain stigma on NPC2 character - I'd be, for example, firmly against the interpretation that Xan or Anomen or Kelsey would proceed romancing PC, if she was committed to someone else - same with Fade or Aerie or Viconia. And eventually, I would think, it will come to the immortal "Sooner or later they will find out, be hurt and angry, and dump your cheating ass."

[jastey]

And eventually, I would think, it will come to the immortal "Sooner or later they will find out, be hurt and angry, and dump your cheating ass."

That's up to the author to design the dramatic event, yes.

 

Well, so we are talking about the same thing but obviously having different opinions. The way I described it I can imagine it to happen: If the PC encourages the new romancing NPC, and if the new NPC never met her before she committed herself.

 

I am not talking about bonded elves, I am talking humans here. And humans, well.

[berelinde]

Yes, the term you are looking for is "emotional affair."

 

Well-meaning people do it all the time. It's as easy as falling in love, and just as impossible to prevent. By "love" in the last sentence, I mean the romanticized idea of love, the one that is mostly controlled by hormones. Infatuation, some might call it, but it's still real.

 

Real people do it. They don't mean to do it. It just happens. A few friendly words uncover some common ground, friendship grows, and next thing you know, those involved are sharing things they probably haven't told their committed partners.

 

Does this make them "jerks?" Depends on who you ask. If you ask the partner, probably. Does it make them weak? Probably. But that lack of physical intimacy makes it all feel so safe, right up until the point that those involved realize they are fantasizing about the relationship becoming physical. But it's too late by then.

 

Anomen is not the world's strongest man. He is very easily led by the PC. I can easily see him falling into the trap of thinking his affection for his comrade's lady is entirely platonic. After all, this is how he falls in love with the PC even with no other males present.

 

Nor is this a new concept. Tales of chivalric romance are filled with knights who fall in love with the wives of their lords. The idea of courtly love seems to have mandated it. Of course, the young knights were expected to be virginal (like Anomen), steadfast to thier lords (like Anomen would like to be), chaste toward the object of his affection (like Anomen), and exist on the cusp of perpetual torment, desiring the woman, but alway stopping short of taking the last step.

 

And then there's Lancelot. He took it just a little too far. Is Lancelot a jerk?

 

Anyway, I see Anomen in Lancelot's position. He has been honorable. He has served his Order, and hidden his feelings, and his own desire is making him crazy. But he can stand it no longer. Like Lancelot, he must give in to his own need.

 

Lancelot's paladinhood would have been stripped from him for this. Anomen is not a paladin.

 

Anyway, I'm planning on allowing Anomen to woo the PC depending on whether or not she feels like she really married Gavin in BG1. Anomen will still start the romance. After all, the first few talks are entirely harmless. When they start getting more personal, when Anomen starts comparing the PC to his sister, I'm going to give the PC the opportunity to tell him that she is a married woman, and his compliment, while appreciated, has made her uncomfortable. Anomen will then back off. If the PC doesn't put on the brakes and lets Anomen carry on, it will go about the same way as Ajantis's situation.

 

So how does Anomen fail to notice that Gavin and the PC are sleeping together (if, in fact they are)? He notices all right, but he has probably convinced himself that they share a bed and do nothing but sleep. Or he might think that the PC submits to Gavin out of fear or obedience, without loving him. I wish I had a nickel for every time I heard a girlfriend say that so-and-so is only staying with that harpy because (insert lame reason here).

 

I think it is important to note that Lancelot's flaw didn't make him a jerk. It made him human. He could no longer claim the perfection of a paladin, but he was still lawful good.

 

Anyway, it's apparent that different people have different ideas about what Anomen would do. There is no way to make everyone happy.

[Kulyok]

I am not talking about bonded elves, I am talking humans here. And humans, well.

 

Well, elves or humans or half-elves or tieflings, I think it is essentially the same. And to be excused from being a decent man - one is never excused from that.

[Magnus_025]

You cannnot control who you fall in love with, but you can control what do you let your loved one know. As Jastev said, Npc2 can know that pc and npc1 are together but just fall in love with her regardless. From that moment on, he/she can start trying to make pc fall in love with him/her.

 

Starting with little talks, with a friendship and then if pc shows some kind of interest in him/her, npc2 can continue and start talking personal till a moment of conflict comes. It is very interestin the "cat-fight" of some romances, but when you become committed it ends, and what happens if you have made a mistake chosing one instead of the other? In RL you can discover with time that you did not choose the correct person and try to change, leaving her/him, and maybe realize that you should have been with the other one (npc2 in this case). Why pc cannot realize that he should have never been with Jaheira (who knows, you may feel guilty for being with your friend's wife)? Why you can't make a stepback if you discover that Viconia is not a good option? After SoA ends, you are not with her and you could start romancing Jaheira or Aerie in ToB (at least in RL you could be the one trying to get their attention) or even any of them, now that you are no longer with Viconia can try to tap your attention again.

 

This is something with too many possibilities which would be very hard to write and I suppose that to code too, but would be very interesting nevertheless.

[berelinde]

Decency has nothing to do with it.

 

Lots of things Anomen does aren't "decent," by modern standards. He is intolerant, patronizing, and blames others for his own failings.

 

His flaws make him more real, and I love him for those as much as for his better qualities.

[Kulyok]

He is intolerant, patronizing, and blames others for his own failings.

 

Which means he must be a cheater, as well?

[berelinde]

Oh, I'm sure there are probably a few cheaters who aren't bigots or patronizing. But the mentality that supports those flaws does imply that the person considers himself better than others, and possibly not subject to the same rules of conduct.

 

I think the important thing here is to provide enough chances for the PC to discourage Anomen by stressing the strength of her bond with the NPC or deemphasizing her friendship with Anomen. She doesn't have to say "Anomen, you're hitting on me. Stop it." She can say "That is a very flattering comparison, Anomen, but it makes me uncomfortable. I am not used to compliments like that from my friends." He could deny having any other intentions, and that would be the end of it.