Family matters in BG2 ***SPOILERS***

[Ankhesenpaaten]

Okay sounds good then. It was a silly thought. It really is Gavin to care and keep his word. If he hears MIranda say all that stuff to the Talos priest then I can't wait to hear how he may tell Miranda off! Of course she may say she needed money and Gavin didn't give her enough and then Gavin may feel guilty. : (

[Shieara]

I wasn't actually thinking that Miranda would go with selling her child. However, if you are going to the lengths of hiring an assassin it's not going to be that large a stretch to hiring a kidnapper and selling her off. And her mother as well, should she choose to interfere. Or, in either the assassin or kidnapping scenario, the PC could play "rescuer" to get on Gavin's good side.

 

Of course, if Gavin found out about it I am sure he would be outraged, but that's half the fun.

 

I'm just looking at it from the perspective of my evil PC, who's main motivation is to make as much money as she can to retrieve Imoen as soon as possible. Not that she cares about Imoen, but it's a personal insult that the cowled wizards took her. Besides, that Irenicus had some very interesting things to say...

[Ajnos]

Are you sure that such a thought even arises? I might be biased culturally, but I saw that Miranda-Talon situation as a typical one in Russia: even if the priest was the real father, he'd just give the woman some money and walk away - the thought of taking care of a bastard child wouldn't even arise. Very few men in his place would even think of it - he'd have to be another Gavin or something.

 

I'm with Kulyok. I never thought it was anything other than a scam for money, and the moppet's comment that she likes the other daddies better said to me that she's older than her sprite looks and Talon Whatsis wasn't that cute or "nice" like some of the others. Maybe even that he didn't give them much money, as in - she's sooo jaded now.

 

That said, I fully expect to start various ways with Gavin, married/engaged/friends but expect him to go the way of Cernd and Keldorn. Has family = must go in my games. I start to dislike them otherwise.

 

Still, assassination would be awesome. Randomizing (though I tend to hate that) would work in that instance. Nullifying any result anyway in ToB, would be annoying. Plus, if you were evil/neutral in SoA, went through hell got all good the PC might want to confess. Maybe. "I'm so sorry Gavin! I was evil at the time, remember?!"

Edited May 19, 2007 by Ajnos

[berelinde]

Like I said, this is meant to be a dealbreaker. Every NPC has some character trait that makes him unacceptable, and this might be one of Gavin's. There are people that won't take Gavin along because he's got a daughter. That is a perfectly acceptable take on it.

 

You have to understand that he has to provide for his daughter, but he has a duty to the PC, too. His promise to her doesn't end until her quest does, and that promise can be a lot more compelling to him that Cernd's or Keldorn's, depending on the relationship status, at least in the absence of a Cernd or Keldorn romance.

 

Kidnapping is out, but I wouldn't rule out assassination. If she arranged it, the PC might have the ability to confess, but I can't guarantee it would be a happy ending, even if the PC did start the game evil.

[Ajnos]

Kidnapping is out, but I wouldn't rule out assassination. If she arranged it, the PC might have the ability to confess, but I can't guarantee it would be a happy ending, even if the PC did start the game evil.

 

Eh, I wasn't suggesting a happy ending. I thought it would be horrible and relationship ending, but that a genuinely "reformed" PC might be guilt-ridden.

[Kitana]

Gavin was a PnP character for 28 years. I knew him well. The first time I saw that exchange between Miranda, Nirkhas, and Lanie, the thought that followed "OMG! That woman just tried to give away her own kid!" was "That really was a pathetic lie. I wonder who would have fallen for it?" The obvious answer was "Gavin." And he did claim Lanie as his own, by virtue of Miranda's own words, or as it was then, the assertion that she was carrying his child. Gavin's thought process: "You have said you carry my child, so the child you carry is mine. She is my daughter, I am her father. End of argument."

 

Wait... Whoa. So -is- Lanie actually Gavin's biological daughter, or no?

[Eleima]

Wait... Whoa. So -is- Lanie actually Gavin's biological daughter, or no?

I was under the impression that the whole issue was unclear, since Miranda hadn't exactly been faithful. So, in my mind, Lanie could be his daughter, and, on the other hand, she might not be. No way to tell for sure. Did I get it right, Berelinde?

[berelinde]

No, she isn't his biological daughter, but Lanie thinks he is. Miranda knows Gavin isn't her father, as does Gavin, but Miranda is unaware that he knows.

 

Confusing enough?

 

As for the option where the PC either had Lanie kidnapped or murdered while she was evil, then confessed, I don't know how that would pan out. He would be torn by a lot of conflicting emotions, and I'd definitely need to think about how he would react.

Edited May 20, 2007 by berelinde

[Ankhesenpaaten]

No, she isn't his biological daughter, but Lanie thinks he is. Miranda knows Gavin isn't her father, as does Gavin, but Miranda is unaware that he knows.

 

Confusing enough?

 

As for the option where the PC either had Lanie kidnapped or murdered while she was evil, then confessed, I don't know how that would pan out. He would be torn by a lot of conflicting emotions, and I'd definitely need to think about how he would react.

 

 

I'm a big chicken and may not be able to see such a thing through. I know it is supposed to be a bad thing but if he was too hurt and broke up with my pc I think I would have to load a still good save from earlier. I just don't think I could follow on to the end with such a terrible sadness!

[berelinde]

Right now it's still just a thought exercise. But if it happened, he'd grieve. He'd feel a lot of guilt, and it would be amplified if it was his own relationship that exposed his daughter to risk in the first place.

[berelinde]

Given the fact that any number of unfortunate fates can befall someone in the City of Coin, it might be advisable to make provisions, should Lanie meet some unfortunate fate before Gavin is recruited...

[Ankhesenpaaten]

Given the fact that any number of unfortunate fates can befall someone in the City of Coin, it might be advisable to make provisions, should Lanie meet some unfortunate fate before Gavin is recruited...

 

 

Wow that is some great thinking on your part! I never ever thought of that. Unless you are meaning you have to make provisions for Gavin knowing that the pc could have done something before he joins and then he dumps his wife because of it. Anyway I guess you'll decide soon at least I hope so because I can't wait for SOA whatever happens.

[cmorgan]

Just add the option for my Paladin to show up and shove Carsomyr in several places that seem to be in need of sunlight... ventilating the PC that would end up trying these otions. Neutral? nope - Good? Nope - have to be some extra kind of evil to do some of this stuff, y'know.

 

I know this is good for roleplaying, but I am not sure that actions like this wouldn't trigger a Detect Evil in one or more comerades, and i just can't see how oe would write the options in such a way that didn't end in a violent confrontation between Gavin and PC...

 

(perhaps I just don't grok evil roleplay )

[berelinde]

I'm not into evil RP, either, but I want to give people who *like* evil roleplaying something to do. There's nothing worse than DLing a mod only to find out that there's absolutely *nothing* to do.

 

As for the PC that took some decisive action prior to meeting Gavin, he'd be distraught, naturally, but he'd have no reason to suspect her. It would be the perfect opportunity for a roleplayer who wanted to show a transformation from evil to good to really shine.

 

Come to think of it, in a world where resurrection is possible and slavers can be hunted down and justice levied on them in a rather permanent way, even a PC who *did* take action after meeting Gavin might have some really sweet roleplaying options. Don't forget that while Lathandrite clergy don't ordinarily favor resurrection, they support it wholeheartedly when the deceased still has a job to do. In this case, the job would be completing the pennance and atonement of someone no less powerful than a Bhaalspawn! Sounds like a compelling reason to me.

 

"Gavin, I did something truly horrible. I regret it with every fiber of my being, and I'll do whatever it takes to make it right, even if it means resurrecting your child or hunting her captors to the ends of Faerun."

 

It all depends on how much effort I want to put into an unlikely set of circumstances...

[BigRob]

Certainly there's a large cluster of NPCs who'd take very badly to the PC arranging the assassination of a small child (the mother might be let slide by some, sue to the fact that she's a con artist). They would almost certainly leave/rebel if the player tried it.

 

However, a PC might also arrange for the daughter to be adopted by more stable parents, and have the mother paid off. Of course, whether or not she'd go for that is another matter, losing a convenient meal ticket and her daughter at the same time.