BG2: the ***BIGGEST SPOILER OF ALL***

[Eleima]

[on topic]I say that is damned fine writing, and I would call it done. What else could there possibly be to say, without diminishing the emotional punch in the gut?[off topic]

 

Now *this* is well said!! I agree!

 

<major snippers>

 

My response is a grin, with a small phrase from BG1 running through my head... "You *will* learn".

Isn't that Irenicus in the BG2 dreams?

There I go nit-picking again... Please forgive me!

[berelinde]

[laughing]Hey, I'm a male - we overgeneralize. (along with the whole toilet-seat-left in the up position, we have to do *something* to preserve our maleness...)[/laughing]

 

You are doing it again.

 

Really, do you think that males, who never leave the toilet seat in the upper position, do not erupt in hysterics while dealing their exes(in case they have them), and deal decently with everyone, do not exist?

 

OK, let's see, do I know any guys that meet those specifications? Well, yes, but not all three at once.

 

That was the joking part.

 

The serious part is that it depends on definitions for "hysterics when dealing with exes." Believe it or not, most people conduct day-to-day dealings with their exes quite civilly, thank you very much. I, personally, enjoy a completely stress-free friendship with my ex-husband, but we've both had time to get over it and move on. And we don't have issues like *this* to address. I do not know anyone of either gender who would be able to behave with emotional detachment under the circumstances described above.

 

Yes, yes, the chaste hero who has saved himself for nigh onto 30 years, on the off-chance he might bump into the PC, while preserving himself in a state of physical, intellectual, and emotional perfection, would never have to worry about dealing with exes, because there wouldn't be any. Maybe I should set up a hotline, if anyone spots one.

 

Yeah, folks, that was a joke. Don't blink! You'll miss it. In a fantasy world, there's no reason guys like that couldn't exist. In fact, the fantasy world is full of them. But they aren't any fun, because they're too perfect.

 

So, to be interesting, there have to be flaws. It has to be at least a little real. If you don't like one set, maybe another might appeal more. Some of them come with friendship tracks that are nearly as much fun, so you can even mix and match.

[berelinde]

My response is a grin, with a small phrase from BG1 running through my head... "You *will* learn".

Isn't that Irenicus in the BG2 dreams?

There I go nit-picking again... Please forgive me!

Nope. It's from the Candlekeep dream, the one you get after the start of Chapter 2, when you get to Nashkel.

[Eleima]

Isn't that Irenicus in the BG2 dreams?

There I go nit-picking again... Please forgive me!

Nope. It's from the Candlekeep dream, the one you get after the start of Chapter 2, when you get to Nashkel.

Gosh, I'm so ashamed!

Just goes to show I haven't played BG1 enough!

 

EDIT: In my own defense, I will say that I must've confused it with the line regarding Imoen, "She resists. She clings to her old life as though it actually matters. She will learn.", from one of the BG2 dreams.

[Kulyok]

Look, guys, you can try keep selling me this "men are flawed" setup for as long as you like - I am not buying.

 

So, I'd rather return to the topic. Is there a reason Miranda leaves without saying goodbye to her daughter? (Though she mentions she loves her). And, if there is, is it now up to Gavin to tell Lanie where Miranda has gone?

[berelinde]

Look, guys, you can try keep selling me this "men are flawed" setup for as long as you like - I am not buying.

Up to you.

 

I had a RL friend who waited over 40 years for the "perfect man." He had to possess a long line of traits that she felt were completely reasonable, but the no kids/no divorce clause was a tough one to fill. I tried to set her up with every guy I knew at one point or another, but there was always something lacking, so I eventually gave up. She became very, very bitter during the course of our 10+ year friendship. As far as I know, she's still waiting. Personally, I think she would have been better off settling for somebody who had a skeleton in the closet, but made her laugh, but who am I to judge? I'd be lying if I said all my romantic decisions were wise.

 

So, I'd rather return to the topic. Is there a reason Miranda leaves without saying goodbye to her daughter? (Though she mentions she loves her). And, if there is, is it now up to Gavin to tell Lanie where Miranda has gone?

As mentioned in passing in a PM, this isn't the last time the player sees Miranda. Code doesn't reflect this, but the dialogue is started. She'll be at the temple of Oghma, saying her goodbyes then. Lanie was sent to wait out of earshot when the argument got heated, because nobody should force a child to witness her parents fighting.

 

I thought it would be more meaningful if the goodbyes were more than a couple DisplayStringHeads viewed from across the Temple District.

 

I am not going to post that dialogue. It might not suit all tastes, but then again, nothing anyone writes ever will. All I can ask is that folks have a little faith that I won't write a load of rubbish.

[cmorgan]

I personally reserve the right to write all the rubbish lines for any mod that any of you folks ever write

 

(that was a lighthearted joke).

[RavenBlack]

I think I'll echo that "wow", and also say that you're making it VERY HARD to be patient in regards to waiting for Gavin BG2

[Ankhesenpaaten]

I think I'll echo that "wow", and also say that you're making it VERY HARD to be patient in regards to waiting for Gavin BG2

 

 

Me too! That was just fantastic berelinde and I really like what you did with Miranda. Please do what you have to do to not exhaust yourself too much but it will really really be hard to wait for SOA. I hope that when you have a alpha or beta to be tested you will let me help test it???

[Shieara]

Sorry I can't do quotes, but at this point in the conversation...

 

"== ~B!GAVINJ~ ~Lanie, darling, I have to speak with your mother alone now. Would you please wait by that statue of Helm over there, by the knight in the shiny armor? I will be right there, sweetheart.~

== ~CLKID~ ~Yes, Daddy.~ DO ~ActionOverride("Lanie",MoveToPoint(xxx,yyy))~

END

++ ~(let him go on)~ EXTERN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.5

++ ~(shift your feet uncomfortably and wait for Gavin to get this over with)~ EXTERN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.5

++ ~Gavin, could you hurry this along?~ EXTERN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.6

++ ~Can we meet you later?~ EXTERN ~B!GAVINJ~ BGavLan1.7"

 

If it were an option, my PC at this point would most likely choose to go keep Lanie company for a couple reasons. First, this is a situation between Gavin and Miranda. My PC would feel that she can't do anything by being there but complicate things. It's really not her business. For a secondary reason, even in the Temple district, Athkatla isn't exactly the safest city. I'm sure the statue is in clear view and stuff, but you can turn your back for a second on some kids and they are gone, so leaving a kid by themself wouldn't be something she would want to do.

 

Of course, a different personality PC might choose to get right in the middle of things, or even try to instigate some kind of negotiation between the two, but my PC is not that brave.

 

That was the only suggestion I could think of. It's well-written, though perhaps a little closer to real-life then I like in my games.

[Eleima]

For a secondary reason, even in the Temple district, Athkatla isn't exactly the safest city. I'm sure the statue is in clear view and stuff, but you can turn your back for a second on some kids and they are gone, so leaving a kid by themself wouldn't be something she would want to do.

I don't agree with this, because Gavin told Lanie to go wait near the statue of Helm which I assume is near the Helmite Temple. That Temple's right next to the Lathander Temple, and they've both posted a couple of guards at the entrance, so I guess I would assume that it's actually pretty safe.

One thing that's bugging me though. Wouldn't it make more sense of Gavin to send Lanie to wait at the Lathander Temple rather than the Helm statue? Just wondering...

[Kulyok]

I had a RL friend who waited over 40 years for the "perfect man." He had to possess a long line of traits that she felt were completely reasonable, but the no kids/no divorce clause was a tough one to fill. I tried to set her up with every guy I knew at one point or another, but there was always something lacking, so I eventually gave up. She became very, very bitter during the course of our 10+ year friendship. As far as I know, she's still waiting. Personally, I think she would have been better off settling for somebody who had a skeleton in the closet, but made her laugh, but who am I to judge? I'd be lying if I said all my romantic decisions were wise.

 

I am supporting this "waiting for a prince on a white horse" point of view wholeheartedly, as the "well, you know, most men are like this, so..." point of view, because the more women stick to it, keep their eyes closed, and expect the worst things from their men, the better for me.

 

(Which is a joke, of course: I wish these two approaches were dropped.)

 

Wouldn't it make more sense of Gavin to send Lanie to wait at the Lathander Temple rather than the Helm statue?

 

I think there might be a misunderstanding here. Over the district, there are statues which could be taken for statues of Helm, I suppose, but I suspect they are not(this is Temple District, not Helm District). Gavin is, perhaps, sending Lanie to one such statue - to the nearest one.

[Kulyok]

As mentioned in passing in a PM, this isn't the last time the player sees Miranda. Code doesn't reflect this, but the dialogue is started. She'll be at the temple of Oghma, saying her goodbyes then. Lanie was sent to wait out of earshot when the argument got heated, because nobody should force a child to witness her parents fighting.

 

That makes sense, and yes, this way is beautiful. But then why doesn't she accompany Lanie to the temple of Oghma, or at least says she'll meet them there, why would she go to the temple of Oghma separately? Or am I missing something?

[Shieara]

I think the intent is that Gavin will be spending some time with Lanie, and then taking her to the temple of Oghma himself. So Miranda would go seperately and meet them there after Gavin has had some time to catch-up with Lanie.

 

I'm not really sure which statue they're talking about in the conversation. There are statues all over the district, and none of them are very distinct as to which gods they are depicting. At first I thought it was the nearest statue, but that is actually right outside Talo's temple. Then I thought about actually over at Helm's temple but that didn't seem to make much sense either.

 

I just think it's really irresponsible on Gavin's part. I understand not wanting Lanie to overhear their conversation, but you just don't send your kid off somewhere without someone responsible to look after them. Even good kids can get distracted by something and wander off, without even meaning to. And the guard probably wouldn't stop her because he hasn't even been asked to keep an eye on her.

 

Of course, this is BG and not a real-life simulation so.../shrug. It's not like it's a game-breaking deal. I would suggest that Gavin and the PC have a conversation about parenting techniques in BG2 if it isn't already included. I'd be interested to hear his philosophy on the matter.

[Ajnos]

You know, I love to quibble. But I'm really not seeing a problem with the vague "go over there, honey." What are the options? Slowing the conversation to a crawl to define where and what she should go and do? I mean, don't we know what the is going on, don't we?

 

Same with setting the time and date to meet Miranda later, this conversation is very long. I like it, but it doesn't need to be longer or wander away from the emotional core. Lanie-there, Miranda-later, we get it. It does what it is supposed to do and moves on. More would be less.