Keldorn as a Fallen Paladin

[NiGHTMARE]

Or just make it only usable by paladins of LG alignment.

[Idobek]

The are easier and more effective ways to change item usabilty. The problem with changing class is that xp, levels, saving throws etc will get screwed for a while, they'll even out eventually but still.

[Meira]

Actually Nightmare's suggestion sounds good. It will do the trick and does not affect other paladins.

[JPS]

Are there any paladin only items in the game except the Holy Avenger and the ToB paladin-only sword, whatever its name is? If those two are the only ones, it might be worth somee extra work to add some special descriptions when he tries to use them instead of just making them unusable.

 

Something like "Keldorn picks up the sword and seems to be studying the intricate design of the crossguard and handle. Then he puts it down again with a deep sigh." Of course it might be a bit repetitive to see that every time he tries to use the sword, and it might not make complete sense in the middle of a battle, but it would show that he's aware of what he's lost and all that.

 

How about his own sword and armour, by the way? Weren't thise awarded to him by Torm? Or was that just the sword? Anyway, it might not make total sense for him to be able to use those items either.

[Domi]

I think it sounds rather mean and ungodly to take a gift back. I think, that like Meira, I like Nightmare's solution to the puzzle.

[JPS]

Yes, that's probably the best solution.

[NiGHTMARE]

The description for Keldorn's armour just says it was designed for him, it's only the sword that's a gift from Torm. The sword is a hallowed redeemer too, which like holy avengers are only supposed to be usable by good characters.

[BigRob]

I'm not sure, but don't Paladins and Rangers count as Fighters when they become fallen? Shouldn't be hard to test and see if it's already in the game).

[Idobek]

I have been considering the options as well as doing a little experimenting and research. Normally a NPC paladin doesn't fall (if the party's reputation drops too low they leave), however, there is a scripting action that can cause them to fall in exactly the same way as a PC. A fallen paladin loses all paladin special abilties and cannot use paladin-only weapons. In Keldorn's case this would include his armor and sword. I am coming to believe that having him fall the same way as the PC may be the best solution. Any new special abilties Keldorn agains could be triggered via event or script. Perhaps he could devote himself to Helm who may slowly accept him and begin to grant him new (or his old) abilities--this is better done by script anyway, a kit grants abilities based on level and we can't predict what level Keldorn will be when he falls.

 

I also looked into the paladin ethos as outlined in the Complete Paladin's Handbook and found this:

At the DM's option, a paladin guilty of an ethos violation may have to submit to a Ceremony of Disgrace in addition to a penalty. Usually, Ceremonies of Disgrace accompany punishments for heinous crimes involving government or church officials (defined as “Evil Violations†in the Standard Method, and Category 3 and 4 Violations in the Alternate Method), but they may be used for lesser violations as well.

 

A typical Ceremony of Disgrace requires the guilty paladin to appear before one or more representatives of his government or church. The more serious the crime, the higher the station of the presiding official; a low-level bureaucrat may suffice for a Category 2 violation, but the king himself may choose to oversee the ceremony for a Category 4 violation. To compound the paladin’s shame, a Ceremony of Disgrace is often held before an audience in the town square or other public forum with the accused paladin standing on a raised platform for all to see.

 

The ceremony begins with the presiding official declaring the paladin’s crime. The official chastises the paladin for betraying his Code of Ennoblement, then announces the penalty. For a minor violation, the paladin may ask for one of the paladin's non-magical weapons. The official destroys the weapon by throwing it into the fire or snapping off the blade.

 

For a heinous violation, more elaborate humiliations may be involved. In addition to destroying one of the paladin’s weapons, the official may demand that the paladin hand over each piece of his armor. The official flings each piece into a fire or has an aide pound the pieces with a mallet, rendering them useless. The official may then slap the paladin’s face, douse him with a bucket of offal, or roughly shear the hair from his head until only a stubble remains. Finally, the official strips the paladin of his name; the paladin must call himself by a new name from that point on.

 

Throughout the ceremony, the paladin must remain silent. Speaking during a Ceremony of Disgrace may be considered an ethos violation in itself, requiring an additional penalty.

I think some kind of ceremony at the Order of the Radiant Heart might be a good may to strip Keldorn of his armor and sword. Another way to indicated the fall would be to rename Keldorn "Sir Keldorn" orginally and have him stripped of the title in the ceremony.

[BobTokyo]

I think some kind of ceremony at the Order of the Radiant Heart might be a good may to strip Keldorn of his armor and sword. Another way to indicated the fall would be to rename Keldorn "Sir Keldorn" orginally and have him stripped of the title in the ceremony.

IIRC, Domi mentioned that turning in his wife would be the trigger for Keldorn's fall. Unless he does something actually criminal afterwards, a Ceremony of Disgrace would not be appropriate; Turning in his wife is fully in accord with the law.

[Idobek]

That law, however, may not necessarily be construed as Good. By DM's choice (in this case Domi) following the letter of the law may result in an ethos violation and require a Ceremony of Disgrace. These ceremonies can be held for the trivialist of offences, depending of what happens to his wife (I don't recall) after he turns her in the offense could be grave.

[NiGHTMARE]

The PC can be chucked out of the Radiant Heart by "following the letter of the law", in the baron/farmers quest.

[BobTokyo]

The PC can be chucked out of the Radiant Heart by "following the letter of the law", in the baron/farmers quest.

True enough. I could see the higher ups at the Radient Heart deciding that this was a case where mercy should have been placed above the law.

[BevH]

I can see where turning in Maria could be the catalyst for Keldorn's fall. He is a paladin of Torm and here is Torm's dogma from Faiths and Pantheons:

 

Salvation may be found through service.  Every failure of duty diminishes Torm and every success adds to his luster.  Stive to maintain law and order.  Obey your masters with alert judgment and anticipation.  Stand ever alert against corruption.  Strike quickly and forcefully against rot in the hearts of mortals.  Bring painful, quick death to traitors.  Question unjust laws by suggesting improvements or alternatives, not additional laws.  Your fourfold duties are to faith, family, masters, and all good beings of Faerûn.

 

So, if Keldorn turns in Maria, he didn't question an unjust law, plus this whole thing started because he was lax in his duty to family.

[Andyr]

I'm not sure a change to Helm would be best - Helm is more Guardian in nature. For a Lawful zealot, perhaps a better choice would be Hoar or someone (LN deity of retribution)? Perhaps even Amaunator (though he's dead/almost dead)?