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Friendship paths for BG1 NPCs?


Kulyok

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Now that BG1 NPC Project is out, Imoen and Jaheira and Branwen and Minsc actually talk. Which is cool. During my BG1 games, I missed banter the most.

 

But they talk only so much - your average NPC has about five banters with the PC. There's also downloading Gavin and going for his friendship path, but I'm talking about Bio NPCs here. So, if you want NPCs who talk a lot, your only option is to go for multiple romances - and to be left with nothing in the second portion of the game, when all romance conflicts have been resolved.

 

Compared to BG2, where you have a bunch of talkative mod NPCs, and you'll (hopefully) be able to download NPC IEP some day, I've started to wonder whether friendships with Bioware NPCs in BG1 might be a good idea. Probably as a separate mod, since BG1 NPC seems to be 1) finished; 2) there's an issue of character guardians.

 

I'd download that.

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I'd download that as well :p

 

It's give you more opportunities to RP your character as well, my BG characters always seem a bit bland ???

 

I assume taht there would be requirements for the friendships, I can't see Dyna getting friendle with a CE half-orc beserker :)

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Character Guardians? erm...

 

ok.

 

I'm cool with anything, but this is a little odd a request, as I have been working so hard for over a year to protect and assist the realated Charater Guardians, including a certain Xan. If the idea were not to be the canonical project, then I have been operating under a false set of assumptions.

 

So your suggestion is that folks should build a brand new set of banters, fr the original Bioware Cahracters, without involving you, Domi, Jastey, and Andyr?

 

I am ok with that, but if I had known that you were, then I would have done some pretty radical things myself, taking much more liberty with original authors work.

 

Perhaps I am still not awake - I really, really can't imagine that you are suggesting I can begin a Xan-Kivan-Ajantis set of banters where Gavin provides an alternate ceremony for their three way Civil Ceremony, and they all three head off to have Imoen the Servant Wench as their companion... and not include you in it?

 

I am all for freedom of choice. I just was not aware that you were cool with me messing with Xan without conferencing with you. Clarification, please? It actually matters alot.

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Gavin is an original character, so you'll have to ask berelinde about that.

 

Within the boundaries of BG1 NPC Project, you have to have the character guardian's consent, when you are writing for Bio characters, as far as I am aware of. If you're writing your mod, though, you can write anything you like for Bio characters - the bigg's experiments with geometry have proved that, alas.

 

I think it'd be really great if we could do it within BG1 NPC Project - Domi writing a Kivan friendship, me asking if I could integrate a Xan friendship, jastey doing an Ajantis' friendship - sure good. I'd love that.

 

But, for example, if the characer guardian is away - a friendship with "his" char won't work within BG1 NPC Project, because he wouldn't be able to give his approval. Hence, a possibility of a separate mod.

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Playing friendship paths is a great thing, especially if the talks are not over midway through the game.

Writing friendship paths makes me want to hide and scream, and I don't think I will come up with a BG1 one after finishing the BGII one (which is hard enough for me). As much as I would like to, but at the moment, I can't promise anything.

Of course I would be happy to be contacted if anyone wants to write an Ajantis BG1 friendship path and wants to match the BG1NPC character.

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Yeah, I understand how you're feeling. Playing is great - writing is... well, great, but not so great.

 

A part of me really wants to submit Xan friendship to BG1 NPC, if Domi/cmorgan say yes, and be done with it.

 

Another part of me, though, really wants to go through BG1 chatting with Khalid, Jaheira, three wonderful elves - Kivan, Coran and Xan - perhaps Imoen or Alora, pick Ajantis and Branwen on the way, befriend Safana(Salomeya is cool, but IWD2!) and Viconia, and perhaps add short paths for Yeslick, Tiax and Quayle, too, eventually, so that no one is forgotten.

 

And this part really thinks "C'mon, people, we can do it! Let's do it in a separate mod, so if, say, Domi writes Safana/someone new writes Montaron, they is free to do so - but if original authors do this, it's even better! Let's make it real!"

 

- and I am rather reluctant to part with this dream. ???

 

(If I have to go it alone, I'll probably write a few friendship paths for the NPCs I feel I can write for - which will be fewer than 25, really - and make it TUTU-only. But! If we get a project with a project lead and stuff, who doesn't want to dismiss BG1 and BGT outright, I'll happily submit my stuff there and let him/her code, so we can write. :p )

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Stop! Putting! Bugs! Into! My! Ear!

???

 

When writing Ajantis romance, I catched myself making gender trigger for the PC... Because there are some talks about things that Ajantis could share with a male PC (the three "Hs": Helm, home, honour :p )

I will see into this, and make tham available for a friendship path. From there, adding some more might be not as much work as it seems right now. As much as I feel bad about postponing Ajantis BGII more, I think it makes so much sense to have the BG1 friendship path there before writing the BGII one.

 

Oh dear..

 

EDIT. If using idioms of speech, I should use them correctly. >.<

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This sounds great. ??? Ajantis and three H's - and for a female PC who doesn't romance Ajantis, too?

 

 

Oh, and cmorgan:

BG1: as long as you're not doing Xan within BG1 NPC Project, and not using Xan romance variables(that's not Bioware - that's Xan Romance crossmod, ask me),

BG2: as long as you're not using anything O#Xan(that's not Bioware - that's Xan BG2 NPC crossmod, ask me), but writing your own Xan mod instead,

 

- yes, as far as I'm aware of, you can do anything. But that's another topic entirely - if you're interested, please, open a new topic. I'd rather you were interested in writing BG1 Friendships, though. :p

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Since this thread got hikacked already -

 

Allows BG1NPC character guardiance to add completely new NPC components, say

-Ajantis romance, from jasty, no one adds or changes anything there without consent, but

-Ajantis' friendshippath, by xyz (which does not refer to the romance)

-Ajantis' quest, yb fgfgflm (which does not refer neither to the romance not ro friendshippath)

 

OK, maybe Ajantis is a bad example since I "only" wrote romance and interjections, not the NPC-NPC nor the existing few Ajantis-PC banters and therefore can't say that his character developpement is only mine, but would this in priciple be possible for the existing BG1NPC character guardian policy? (For me, that would be perfectly OK, as long as still active participants get involved into the developpment, but I don't know what exactly was agreed for BG1 NPC.)

 

This is not meant as criticism, or starting a flame war, over BG1NPC policies. It is merely a priciple question. For me, there is a difference in "do not touch existing material" and "do not attempt on adding anything to that NPC".

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I remember there was a case when an author(not me) asked to add a few banters to the project, and the character guardian(not me) essentially vetoed these banters, so probably not without the character's guardian consent, I suppose.

 

I don't think it is a necessarily bad thing. I'm just thinking that if we(well, we. Maybe not "we" but "somebody else") go ahead with this friendships stuff, it might be better to do it in a separate mod, so that we don't have a situation on our hands that a character guardian returns and really dislikes the material somebody else added to 'his' character in BG1 NPC Project, when he or she explicitly asked not to.

 

Technically it's very simple to pack one more mod, even if the authors are the same, so I don't see it as much of a problem.

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So as I understand it, just to make clear:

 

The suggestion is

  • For modders which wish to respond to Bioware characters and avoid conflicts with BG1 NPC by checking for their code (example: Gavin), the mod author is expected to ask permission/allow veto of content by existing BG1 NPC Guardians.
  • For modders who don't bother to check for compatability or BG1 NPC coding, or respond to internal variables to allow their mod to work with BG1 NPC, they can do anything they like.

Is this the correct phrasing of the statement?

 

Because if it is, then I have some frustrations here.

 

Not the least of which is the statements are backwards. If we want moddrers to respect author's work, we shouldn't make it *more attractive* to ignore us than it is to work with us. Not eveyone is berelinde - if I had been her going through the process of getting gavin cooperative work done, I would have simply ignored all of you and written what I wanted, and been done with it.

 

I am really, truly ok with anything that does not involve another year of my life tracking down BG1 NPC bugs and rebuilds - banters do not require much maintainance, so reasonable banters might be ok -

 

except that there are thousands upon thousands of lines ready for translation, and literally seven translators who have been waiting for over a year to get their hands on them.

 

I was pushed (by you, Kulyok) to close up BG1 NPC Project. I pushed everything back one year to really do the job right, and got the two sides (BGT and Tutu) remerged to one code to keep control over both code and characterization for the Project. We all have immensley tightened and improved the project, and I do not begrudge the time - but I don't understand the sudden switch in position. Unless the idea is to close up the Project so Project authors are freed to do what they like with any characters, avoiding discussion with other Character Guardians...

 

 

I am in a tough place here.

 

On one hand, I have never understood the tight hold any of you ladies keep over your view of characterization. My sense of this is any modder should be able to do what they want; Jastey should not be discussing Xan lines she writes in any of her mods with Kulyok, berelinde should not be bothering to discuss lines with either Kulyok or Jastey - after all, the Bioware characters are not our property. Even our property is not our "property" - it belongs to the Project.

 

On the other hand, I have been working on this labor of love for thousands upon countless thousands of hours instead of building my own mods, because I love the Project and wanted to see original author intent preserved and protected. That includes actively coopting and redirecting modders who wish to write for these characters into discussions with eachother, and following the dictates of the Project as posted in the workroom. Which insists on maintaining characterization and protecting original author intent.

 

So am I supposed to say "ok, BG1 NPC Project is over; go do your stuff, write what you want without discussion with the other BG1 NPC authors"?

 

Or a I supposed to say "Kulyok, Jastey, it is over - go do something else and stop messing with BG1 - it is done"?

 

Or am I supposed to say "So you put eachother and berelinde through hell and rewrites, and now you want to go do what you want with everyone else's characterization, because there is no framework forcing you all to be responsive to eachother's needs"?

 

Or am I supposed to say "It is none of my business, but if you write *one single line* which uses or touches BG1 NPC code or content, I must insist that I be allowed full veto power over its implementation and content, as you have an agreement with BG1 NPC Project"?

 

As a side note, you three put eachother through hell with all this character discussion and changing lines - if the upshot of all of this is that folks are supposed to be able to add to characterization in a separate mod, then By George I have to insist that berelinde go back and add back the lines slashed and cut in negotiations. And the official policy of The BG1 NPC Project will be to allow open access to coded variables to any modder who wishes - we are not going to have our cake and eat it, too. Either we are open to everyone freely, or we are a closed shop - I cannot be put into the position of trying to protect Xan, Coran, Ajantis, etc. on one hand and allow free access to other characters on the other. You folks are asking me to do the impossible.

 

In the grand scheme of things, I honestly do not have strong feelinges either way about what you wish to do. I do not see the need for the mod, as in my opinion BG1 is already well served by BG12 NPC and other mods, and there are others in the pipeline which add more opportunities for quests and such. If a person installs one or two NPCs and one or two quest mods, they are constantly annd continually interrupted by NPCs and quests, and frankly I do not see the need for further BG1 banter additions. In fact, to be blunt, it feels like NEJ-ing or TS-ing content - pushing unnessesary boundaries.

 

But this conversation puts me in an awkward bind in terms of what constitutes my role in protecting BG1 NPC authors (in this case, protecting them from themselves).

 

Domi, I need your input on this , please.

 

I suspect the "gentlemanly" way out of this is to keep BG1 NPC open, and include work on friendship talk pathways. That means that the authors would be protected and expected to work within the Project guidelines. If that is voted, then ok. The Beta4 will be released this coming week, and the .tra files sent to the translators with the understanding that additional .tra files will follow. As much work as is accomplished along with any updates to code will ship on G3's Anniversary as s completed "The BG1 NPC Project v14", and then friendship paths can be released as they are finished as a v15, etc, etc.

This has the advantage of being open to both Tutu and BGT communities, and affords Project authors their rights. Since the work involves very little coding, it does not represent much added to my plate.

 

But you folks need to get clear on what you expect in terms of cooperative arrangements. You can't be allowed to require others to meet your needs for your character on one hand, ad then turn around and do whatever you want to someone else's work on the other. That is both unfair and uncivilized.

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It has to be a separate project, Cmorgan. In BG1NPC the Czar/Czarina controls what goes into the mod for their character, and some of the guys were extremely sensitive about their content. One person didn't want his work proof-read let alone edited; and there was definetly the power of veto by the Cazr/ina on any lines for his or her character. Seeing how most of people left and stuff, changing the policy which made the project possible behind their backs just sounds unethical to me. I'd rather not have another incident of someone throwing a fit and asking to remove their content from the mod.

 

As for the rest - like I said - never ever write for Bioware characters, or prepare to the possibility that your work is can be made obsolete. It's a bitter truth of it.

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