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Friendship paths for BG1 NPCs?


Kulyok

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This idea was vetoed by the editor in chief because of what can most conveniently be described as cultural differences of opinion.

 

Untrue. I suggested female-only Renal, because male homosexuals do not usually attend high positions among thieves - I never vetoed everything. My suggestions were made in the same vein as my posts in Gavin's mod - free to be ignored.

That wasn't the perception when writing it. In fact, quite the opposite. And let me assure you that it is indeed possible for homosexuals to attain high positions among thieves. I don't talk RL much because this isn't the place for it, but I've had a fairly eventful life, even if I am enjoying a blissful retirement from it, now. Consider the case of Christopher Lee. He served the British government as an operations specialist during WWII, and has seen things many people will never see. He never talks about it, if he can help it, but he knows about all kinds of things that many people should hope never to see. I've never served the US government, but I have served my state as an emergency medical professional with access to a great deal of confidential information. In the course of my 10 year career, I've attended events I would not speak of willingly, from the shooting of a governor to standing helpless while a 16 year old burn victim succumbed to his injuries, from attending the victim of corporate neglect (crushed by iron pipes in a negligent on-the-job injury) to treating and eventually losing the victim of gang wars, from treating the injuries of prostitues to telling a child that her mother is dead of a drug overdose, from delivering babies to drug addicts who didn't even know they were pregnant to attending the last words of a dying serial rapist. I signed up for that, and participated until the resiliency of youth at last left me, but please believe me when I say that homosexual thieves are just as prevalent as homosexual plumbers or homosexual accountants, or homosexual CEOs. Through it all, I learned the one, pervasive truth that there is never a good reason for violence, and that the end never justifies the means. And that personal bias must be left aside always, when you're doing a job.

 

I would also prefer that any friendship path mods be packaged separately. For a collaboration to be successful, it needs a coordinator, an editor in chief. Recent experience has taught me that this situation puts collaborators in the uncomfortable position of having to conform to that editor's vision.

 

But you're still participating in BG2 NPC IEP, right?

The only editorial control is restricted to grammar and spelling. No one ever said "I would rather you didn't do this." And my involvement has been scaled back. I was going to do the "evil Imoen" path, but that path was discontinued at my own request, so now it's just consultation and perhaps a bit of Valygar. Probably a lot of Valygar. And maybe a bit of Keldorn, if I can wrangle it.
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No one ever said "I would rather you didn't do this."

 

Well, if you'd rather work in an environment where nobody says "I would rather you didn't do this"...

 

(And, believe it or not, I indeed never did "Don't do it or I won't include it into RE". For better or for worse, I refuse to say. ??? )

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First page.

 

"If I have to go it alone, I'll probably write a few friendship paths for the NPCs I feel I can write for - which will be fewer than 25, really - and make it TUTU-only." - this was the number of characters in BG1, actually...

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BTW, I personally have no problems whatsoever with people doing cross-mod banter or checking variables, or mentioning my NPCs in their mods.

 

Cool, it's just I remembered that post, so I mentioned Branwen-Dynaheir stuff.

 

 

So, just as a mid-way conclusion/whatever: I think I'll release a small "BG1 Friendships" mod eventually, with Xan and a few other characters I'd like to befriend/talk to. If there're more friendships to come, as a part of BG1 Friendships or as separate mods, I know I'll be very happy this topic kind of served to spur them onwards.

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Agreed then, on the basic point in question. Any additional friendship talks are a separate mod, not BG1 NPC Project material, and as such I can leave you folks to do as you wish.

 

As far as the BGT thing, please PM me rather than pollute the thread with more banter about trustworthyness and assurances. I have very little time for your necroposting and innuendo over my support of the project. I would be happy to rip your head off in private, rather than public. I am even in the mood to do so.

 

Domi, if you are back, I would appreciate you retaking control of the project at this next anniversary - I have this awful feeling that in a very short while Kulyok and I may find ourselves in direct confrontation over both philosophy and theory of modding, and in particular of necroposting to make points and challenge both my committment to the project and willingness to step up on everyone's behalf. Rather than drag the project down, and since it is pretty much done, I would prefer that you take back the "protection" mantle.

 

I typed and retyped this several times, as the first few versions had a venom that suprised me, and I thought I was having a low-blood sugar moment, but no - I think that the concern is more widespread. Before I say something rude and stupid, I think the best thing would be to step away and let you handle personalities on the project; it was a good run, while it lasted, and I am happy to have served. Perhaps the best thing for the project right now would be for me to move on, as of the G3 Anniversary. There are any number of ways I can be useful to CamDawg, and project code is stable on two platforms. The work that is left is documentation, and I hate doing that anyways. Since the Faldorn Quest is optional, we can scrap it out and I can assist berelinde in finishing the Tiax Quest, only because it is so close to finishing.

 

As for the code, I am afraid that the modding world has moved past the point where a narrow vision of "ownership" is widely held. A variable does not "belong" to a project except as an identifier. I have no way of enforcing people using or not using variables without or with permission. As the content is closed, the question is partially moot. A modder has the same freedom they do in working with Bioware's stuff when it comes to code. They can use any project variable they wish in their mod, just the way flag files (or for that mater, the way we patch Bioware dialogue) do not require permission, regardless of what we wish. I simply would like to go on record that the freedom is explicit. It makes it easier to aloow others to work with BG1 NPC instead of against it.

 

Certainly any further work I do will be respectful of BG1 NPC work, and attemt to work alongside BG1 NPC content. To this end I will freely use any project variables in any way I can to ensure seamless work, in the best G3 tradition of open, collaborative, and non-destructive modding. After all, I learned it here - and it is in our best traditions to support and assist other modders in attaining their vision, rather than shutting them out.

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Domi, if you are back, I would appreciate you retaking control of the project at this next anniversary - I have this awful feeling that in a very short while Kulyok and I may find ourselves in direct confrontation over both philosophy and theory of modding, and in particular of necroposting to make points and challenge both my committment to the project and willingness to step up on everyone's behalf. Rather than drag the project down, and since it is pretty much done, I would prefer that you take back the "protection" mantle.

 

It's a bad idea basically because I have no idea just how project is coded at this point. ??? I think simply closing the project off using the conditions you have listed will be the best way to avoid any and all conflict. We'll all just move on, leaving the fine work behind for everyone to enjoy without tarnishing it with any more disagreements.

 

I think it's in everyone's best interests to use and check the variables. After all, even for the friendship expansion stuff, I would not want new dialogues to 'pop in' between the old ones, but to start after the old ones ran their course. Otherwise, it's going to be a nightmare for a player who gets stuck with a dialogue every 20 minutes to start with and nothing afterwards.

 

Please, do not heistate to scrap Faldorn's Quest or how about actually moving it to you know which project by Cam if he wants it? After all Faldorn's participation is minimal, and she does not have to be in the party, just take on a Quest-Giver role.

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So, including variable checks for friendship mods would be all right? That's ironic, because I had a tremendously hard time working around the prohibition against checking for project variables when writing Gavin, and one of those instances was just to prevent him from saying something about Durlyle forcing his attention on a female PC if she was romancing somebody else. I didn't really think he should go around offering even innocent words of comfort to somebody else's girlfriend. Since I couldn't secure permission from everybody, I had to leave off the check, so now he says it even if she is dating somebody else.

 

Maybe it would be a good idea to establish which variables can be checked under which circumstances, because I'm finding it rather confusing.

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Yes, um, mentions of polluting do seem counterproductive; I'm afraid I'll hear the "trail of slime" comment soon, so I'd rather start another thread on this some time later.

 

Maybe it would be a good idea to establish which variables can be checked under which circumstances, because I'm finding it rather confusing.

 

It's like you do with Gavin variables, I suppose - every author has their own preferences for cross-mod permissions, so I suppose it's still approaching each individual author, and if he says "sure!" then sure; if you don't reach an agreement, you do not have cross-mod content. I don't think anybody can declare somebody else's work "free for the grasping", because it's not theirs to give away, strictly speaking.

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Aggreed: Faldorn's Quest (and Imoen's Quest) will be offered elsewhere.

berelinde has been wonderful and put a good bit of work into untangling code for Tiax, so I will attempt to help her finish it up and include it in BG1 NPC final.

 

I am sorry I wasn't clear enough on the whole Coordinator thing.

 

To clarify, as of the G3 Anniversary, from my standpoint, The BG1 NPC code is closed.

 

My role as Coordinator from a code standpoint is no longer relevant. The only remaining work will be the gradual integration of .tras; I defer all Coordinator duties and related discussions over what do and do not constitute appropriate translation to Domi.

 

If someone wishes changes made to the Master Copy, they should ask Domi. If she sends me an email that says "do this" , I do it. My role will not be to regulate interactions between project authors, or provide leadership.

 

The integration of .tras can be accomplished by anyone. Drop the files into the already created subdirectory, uncomment the appropriate line in the .tp2, and have the translator test the install.

 

Eventually, I assume within a year or so, G3/CamDawg will become the source of the final Master Copy, unless Domi directs that it be sent elsewhere.

 

The mod is stable and tested (we are down to tracking small glitches in my coding of the Dynaheir Quest) on two platforms to an extent only dreamed of by most mods. I am moving on into other projects, with more open and comfortable conditions of authorship and collaboration models.

 

I have appreciated the opportunity to be involved; I love this mod, and think that the lessons learned about community collaboration and setting reasonable open community authorship are immensely helpful to the IE community. I am ready to do my own thing, under a more open model, and am glad to have been helpful in making this mod's content open to a wide IE audience.

 

Minor tinkering can be accomplished by any number of individuals, including myself. And for at least the next year, I am fine with keeping the Master Copy. If anyone wants something done, bug Domi, not me ???

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