Demivrgvs Weidu Log - Bug Reports - Suggestions

[DavidW]

Shoudn't be better to have some mages run their own script? It can make them better suited to their surroundings and it can allow to take into account if they have allies...and i suppose the game may also run faster.

 

Would it be better to have every mage run their own tailored script? Absolutely. It would have taken approximately 400 times as long to write, though - there are a lot of mages in BG2

[Demivrgvs]

Underdark

 

First of all i have to say just one thing..."WOW"!! Fighting Baalors,Mind Flyers,Beholders and Drows has never been so fun!!

 

Bugs:

1) It's not related to the Underdark but it's where i've discovered it. Beholders went out from cloudkills just fine (and that is finally a cool way to nerf those abused spells) but sometimes they act oddly...one of them just stayed there after the spell was finished and did nothing while i was killing him. And another thing that happened is that my own fire elemental always tried to escape from the area where the cloudkill was placed long before... One possibility is that the check creatures make last more than the spell effect (you have added a smoke effect that creates an invisible .cre i'm not wrong...maybe it's related to its duration).

 

2) After defeating the Baalor it was impossible to save even at great distance in the main Underdark area...it always appeared"there are enemies about"string. Can it be related again to the .cre generated from his firestorm spell?

 

3) Beholders didn't see invisible (and that's ok) but if a character became invisible via spell or potion after been spotted by an Elder Orb the latter can still see him

 

Suggestions:

Baalor:

1) Vorpal hit should be toned down to 5% chance as per PnP

 

Beholders:

1) flesh-to-stone ray should have a save vs. petrification instead of save vs. spell;

2) Anti-magic Ray shoud have a check instead of 100% success, and it shouldn't cause 100% spell failure for 20 seconds

 

Mind Flyers:

1) Why are they able to see invisible creatures by script?

[DavidW]

Yep, there's a general bug in the code that creates the invisible creatures, which is preventing them expiring, and probably that's the cause of most of the problems.

 

I don't think I quite understand the Elder Orb bug - can you run me through it again?

 

As for the suggestions:

 

Balor vorpalising: well, it's the vanilla effect from the ToB balors, and Death Ward shields from it; on the other hand, I am applying it to much earlier balors... unsure. Why do you think it should be changed?

 

Petrification saves: good idea.

 

Beholder eye power - I'm inclined to leave this one alone, it's exactly the same power as they had in the original game.

 

Mind flayer see-invisible - Basically I was inspired by the Tactics mind flayers. Rationale: mind flayers are ultra-intelligent (which correlates to invisibility detection in 2nd edition AD&D) and possess various psionic detection modes. (Plus from an gaming perspective, since they don't have access to spells like Truesight, it's convenient). Do you think it should be changed? I guess it could be made optional...

[Demivrgvs]

1) Elder Orb can't see creatures approaching him already under invisibility effect...but if said creatures became invisible while on sight the Elder Orb can still target them.

 

2) Vorpal hit in PnP has 5% chance...you could just leave 15% anyway...it just make it very powerful.

 

3) In PnP Beholders have two way to dispel: an anti-magic ray which is treated as a dispel effect (14th level caster) and its main eye can soppres all magical effect in front of him (its rays as well!). The 100% success af the anti-magic ray totally eliminate the chance of pre-buffing which can be good but this way mages and clerics are totally useless if on sight.

 

4) Mind Flyers shoudn't see invisible by script but being ultra-intelligent they should be able to counter it effectively in others ways i think. If they sense invisible characters (and they always do) they can turn invisible themselves so that they can't be backstabbed for example. As described in the Monster Manual Mind Flyers are mages (few are sorcerers) and have access to 4th level spells. You have made them able to cast Improved Invisibility and i propose to let them cast Remove Magic, Detect Invisibilty and detect Illusions. And what about a sort of Clairvoyance that works indoor? If they spot one party member but can't see him anymore they can dimension door to any party member who's not invisible or protected by non-detection.

[DavidW]

Quick comment: it sounds like you're thinking of 3rd-edition mind flayers, whereas I had 2nd-edition ones in mind. (Not that it really matters, BG2 isn't either edition)

[Demivrgvs]

Quick reply: i have both of them in mind.

[Salk]

If I may intrude, I'd agree about Mind Flayer not being able to see invisibility by script. Overall, I would stick closer to 2nd Ed. rules since it's fairly safe to say that most of the rule engine of Baldur's Gate is inspired by the 2nd. Edition.

[Demivrgvs]

You may intrude anytime. Either sticking to 2nd or 3rd edition Mind Flyers shouldn't see invisibility as innate ability...i think that being BG II neither of them it can be used the best of both edition. Anyway glad to see i'm not the only one wishing that at least one powerful creature can still fear an Assassin!

Following my suggestions (or something like that) backstabbing them should be possible but far from abusable as it was in vanilla where a single Stalker could wipe out their entire city without them noticing.

 

Golem:

1) They should be immune to lower resistance and pierce magic spell i suppose

[DavidW]

Mind flayers: easy solution, I'll make it an optional choice, if there's concern.

 

Golems: agree in principle, though since there's no "Golems" component I'm not sure where I'd put it.

 

General: I'm treating both 2nd and 3rd edition rules as information sources only. I don't think there's any particular virtue in BG2 conforming to any set of PnP rules.

[Demivrgvs]

Golem: could you please tell me which code should i put in a .tp2 file in order to add a golembelt.itm to all golems? I don't know anything about weidu coding unfortunately but i'm sure it's something you can handle!

[Gort]

COPY_EXISTING_REGEXP GLOB ~^.+\.cre$~ ~override~
 PATCH_IF (SOURCE_SIZE > 0x2d3) BEGIN
 READ_BYTE 0x241 race
 PATCH_IF (race = 144) BEGIN
   ADD_CRE_ITEM ~golembelt~ #0 #0 #0 ~UNSTEALABLE&UNDROPPABLE~ ~BELT~
 END
 END
BUT_ONLY_IF_IT_CHANGES

or something like that

[Demivrgvs]

Ust'Natha

 

Bugs: none.

 

Suggestions:

1) What about making the alarm start as soon as the summon ritual is finished? Escaping a city full of drow can be fun i suppose!

 

Mind Flyer's city

 

Bugs: none.

 

Suggestions:

1) As i said before Mind Flyers shoudn't see invisible. I'm sorry i had suggested something you had already implemented: they can teleport near the party if they have spot someone but can't see anyone anymore and it really make the difference!

2) Elder Brain: it now uses its psionics abilities much better but i think it deserves to be much more powerful or well protected.

 

Escaping Underdark

 

Bugs:

1) Elven warriors allied with the drow and fight against me even if i had not harmed one them.

2) The first game-breaking bug i've found so far: probably due to 1) an elven warrior became hostile as soon as Elhan finished talking...unavoidable death. I should have a save not much before and i'll try it again to let you now if it's a persistent bug.

[Demivrgvs]

Yes it's a persistent bug and i'm unable to avoid it...

 

Can it be the same"shout"problem posted in the 'small issues' thread?

[Grand_Dracolich]

Mind flayers shouldn't immediately detect invisibility, but should have some psionic to dispel it, in my opinion. Also, I read from the Illithid wikipedia page (which I'm not 100% sure if it's entirely accurate) wizard magic is generally frowned upon by mind flayers, since it can't be passed on to the Elder Brain:

 

Illithids generally frown upon magic, preferring their natural psionic ability. Psionic potential is an integral part of the illithid identity, and the Elder Brain cannot absorb the magical powers of an illithid mage when it dies. They tolerate a limited study of wizardry, if only to better understand the powers employed by their enemies.

 

So, they probably should only use psionic powers, aside from the Alhoon.

 

For the beholders, you might wanna go more PnP on that. I like the idea of spell failure on characters in a cone or line from the beholder .

[Guest Guest]

1) Elven warriors allied with the drow and fight against me even if i had not harmed one them.

2) The first game-breaking bug i've found so far: probably due to 1) an elven warrior became hostile as soon as Elhan finished talking...unavoidable death. I should have a save not much before and i'll try it again to let you now if it's a persistent bug.

 

Wasn't there a similiar bug with the vanilla game? I remember the exit from the underdark being a fairly buggy sequence in general.