mod that silences Nalia until you want to speak with her?

[Evaine Dian]

I can't believe I wasted 20 precious minutes of my life on reading this "review". It is rude, not funny at all (though he tries so hard), self-contradictory and completely pointless. Sorry, but I can't see any points in this gibberish, let alone valid ones.

[Ayce]

You mean the adventure matrix (as I call it) isn't heavily entangled, confused and sloppy? That it doesn't put your character in a position of leaving Imoen to languish in misery while you pursue your rewards OR refusing your aid to many people in need (or at least saying you'll help, then not doing it or taking forever to get around to it)?

 

I have to admit, I hadn't looked at that review in a long time, and didn't remember how obnoxious it was, but the adventure matrix is a mess (again, as I said above, not a concern for certain types of players).

 

What I did remember is that specific point, and after reading it, I had a lot easier of a time "ignoring" certain things that were pulling my character in another direction as the only alternative I had was to do some extensive modding just to avoid a few dialog strings.

[Gabrielle]

Here is the game review link I mentioned above (and had to relocate), he's a bit on the brash side, but he does make some good points................

 

Read for yourself and decide..........

 

 

http://www.caltrops.com/review0009.php

Wow such colorful words with a sense of homophobia. Must be a little teeny that no one pays any attention to. I only read a few paragraphs and decided it was nothing but shit, to use a colorful word myself.

[Lemernis]

You mean the adventure matrix (as I call it) isn't heavily entangled, confused and sloppy? That it doesn't put your character in a position of leaving Imoen to languish in misery while you pursue your rewards OR refusing your aid to many people in need (or at least saying you'll help, then not doing it or taking forever to get around to it)?

 

Yeah, this is true, pretty much. In BG1 you're solving a mystery, so that the next line of action isn't always forced upon you. BG2 is much more linear with the rescue of Imoen set before you, and then having to travel through the Underdark upon returning from Spellhold.

 

A PC who doesn't really care about Imoen can say that he or she is seeking to give Irenicus some payback. But decent and heroic types would care about Imoen. And I would imagine most players create characters who are basically noble for a game such as this. If such an adventure really took place, I can't imagine many types of people in the position of the protagonsit feeling driven to go to Spellhold simply to put the smackdown on Irenicus. Most would probably just be relieved to have escaped from the nutbar's clutches, and would head off to adventure in Amn (i.e., embark on all the Chapter 2 sidequests, and tackle Watcher's Keep).

 

ToB is even more linear than SoA.

 

Anyway, the more forced and linear the main storyline, the less sidequests make sense.

 

Raising 20,000 gp for Gaelan doesn't take long. For a PC who cares about Imoen, any quests undertaken after raising that sum don't make much sense.

 

SCS II (now in beta) has a component that allows you to raise Shadow Thieve's fee, but I suspect that most players will hold onto the cash to purchase certain items sooner rather than later.

 

Last year on these boards we discussed the possibility of removing NPCs from the party in Spellhold in a friendlier manner

 

http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?s...mp;hl=spellhold

 

in an effort to make the game feel a little less linear.

[Ayce]

Yeah, I read a lot of gamer reviews that talk about how important it is for the game to be non-linear and allow the player freedom to go wherever he/she wants to, whenever he/she wants to (more of that pragmatic point of view).

 

I understand this, but my point was (and still is) that it's very hard to have things both ways without compromising the integrity of a logical story progression. Ultimately, you would have to mod all of those knots out of it or just let some of the small stuff go and "ignore" it. BG2 just isn't very accomodating to a player who wants to see an believable story develop.

 

Case in point, I'm running a kensai/mage right now. A kewl character concept, but it doesn't match the background of the PC from Candlekeep at all. If I had my way, this character would be a 2nd protagonist with no prior relationship to Imoen, Minsc or any of the other BG1 NPCs. However, the dialog in the game just isn't going to jive with that. So I either ignore the fact that a Kensai/mage has no place in this story, or I ignore a significant amount of game dialog and proceed with my own story concept.

 

I mean, one could mod the game to start with different or custom NPCs, writing all the new dialog and writing in a more compelling reason to pursue Irenicus to spellhold if not to rescue Imoen (if they had the skill and knowledge, not to mention the time, to do that), I'm not sure it's really worth it.

 

For my part, I'm content to see a story develop and unfold (I dunno, call me Mr. Linear), the more this story allows for my own personal touches to influence the flavor/flow of the story, the better (so long as you've still got a coherent plot unfolding).

 

I tend to lose interest when it's just do whatever in whatever order with no sense of direction in a game that's supposed to be, above all else, a heroic epic.

 

Anyone remember Arena? Yeah, the emporer is imprisoned and you can go get him anytime you want, otherwise just go on every random quest that comes you way and go back to rescuing the emporer whenever you feel like it. Everytime you would gather a piece of the staff, the bad guy would appear and send a monster after you. Whup de do.....................

 

Not a compelling story, not engaging gameplay. I could never finish Arena because of that. All the non-linear freedom in the world (which it had) couldn't save this game from being tedious and boring.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anit-non-linear (I don't think that's a word), but non-linear gameplay doesn't always help in terms of making a game more engaging or enjoyable. Baldur's Gate doesn't suffer from this as bad as Arena (or Daggefall), but I do think it suffers SOME from a poorly designed, confusing, tangled mess of an adventure matrix.

 

It's just really hard to have it both ways (non-linear gameplay AND a compelling, cohesive, coherent story unfolding at the same time).

 

BTW

 

Last year on these boards we discussed the possibility of removing NPCs from the party in Spellhold in a friendlier manner

 

I had Jan Jansen with me in Brynnlaw. I got to the Asylum dungeon and found I had to leave him there to take on Imoen. So I went to an earlier savegame in Brynnlaw and dismissed him there, he went back to his home in the slums. It seems you can reform you party in Brynnlaw just as well as anywhere else.