Commentary

[Domi]

That's . . . exactly why I wanted stat checks in the first place. If all the mod author uses is gender and race, then all concepts such as attractive (CHA), intelligent (INT) and noble (Rep) can never even come into play.

 

Your stats checks are prohibitive, however, in other words, if you fail at least ONE stat check, the option is NOT available. What I advocate is a flexible check system, when certain things add, and certain things substruct to the PC's total appeal. That also includes what the PC says, as I also place checks on the lines PC selects, that all either increase or decrease PC's appeal. So, yes, there is someoone who is willing to code that, and I continue to run the checks throughout the romances, so that when the stats increases, certain feats and proficiencies are gained etc, that is taken into account by the NPC as well as what PC says, and NPC can break out of the relationship that is not to his or her taste. In other words, the system I advocate is dynamic and balancing rather than static and prohibitive. I am Okay, if not perfectly happy with it. Failing that, I'd rather go on no checks, rather than use the static, prohibitive checks you are offering, because for me a stat is just that - a stat, and the sum of them do not describe the character to me. Coran is a chaotic good elf with high dexterity and so is Kivan, with their classes allowing for fighting and sneaking abilities. Yet they are as different as night and day and no particular restriction will show you the difference. It's in what they say. The person who would naturally want to romance Kivan wouldn't necessarily want to romance Coran and vice versa. In my experiece, despite his ultra-low charisma (8), your loner Kivan is relatively more attractive to the player base than outgoing Coran with his nearly perfect charisma score (16). Go, show me one romance that checks that requests male PC to have a low charisma and high wisdom to appeal to the ladies! It's their persomnality and backstory that counts.

 

Kivan Coran

18/12 14

17 20

14 12

10 14

14 9

8 16

[SixOfSpades]

Your stats checks are prohibitive, however, in other words, if you fail at least ONE stat check, the option is NOT available.

Well, yeah. I wasn't aiming for "ideal," I was aiming for "a bit more realistic and more varied than the original requirements."

 

What I advocate is a flexible check system, when certain things add, and certain things substruct to the PC's total appeal. That also includes what the PC says, as I also place checks on the lines PC selects, that all either increase or decrease PC's appeal. So, yes, there is someoone who is willing to code that, and I continue to run the checks throughout the romances, so that when the stats increases, certain feats and proficiencies are gained etc, that is taken into account by the NPC as well as what PC says, and NPC can break out of the relationship that is not to his or her taste.

Now that is the ideal system. When everything that the NPC should care about is taken into account, and even characters who lack all desired characteristics can still advance partially into the relationship, then that's pretty much perfect. If you're willing to actually code that, then I salute you.

 

In other words, the system I advocate is dynamic and balancing rather than static and prohibitive.

I'm going to take issue with your negative terminology here: How were the requirements I suggested any more 'static' than what the encounters had originally? You want static, look at the original BioWare method, where (IIRC) the ViconiaMatch, AnomenMatch, etc., variables were checked once, at the very beginning of the game, and never touched again. 'Prohibitive?' Yeah, that's the very nature of the beast, to ensure that, e.g., a Neutral Evil Assassin would never let himself fall in love with a PC Paladin. But if you mean prohibitive in the sense that the restrictions I set up would be locking out a large number of players, I'd have to differ. As I pointed out, the majority of those restrictions can be met simply by having 13 Charisma, which is by no means difficult to roll. I was rather amused by the amount of people who seemed to think that they would have to create dozens of PCs (as many as 70, despite the fact that there are only 40 NPCs) just to experience all the encounters, when in fact the only major conditions that would force that were all pre-existing: The dichotomy between those that prefer Males vs. Females, Sir Ryan Trawl's insistence on a fellow Paladin, the fact that only a Mage can woo Teos, Elhan's demand for a fellow Elf, and the fact that you can only experience Aran & Bodhi by siding with them in Chapter 3.

 

I'd rather go on no checks, rather than use the static, prohibitive checks you are offering, because for me a stat is just that - a stat, and the sum of them do not describe the character to me.

Well, they can't describe a character's taste in music, or fashion sense, or how good they are in bed, that's for sure. But for covering the basics, the available stats are pretty good. Can they entertain you with a display of juggling? Have they read up on the branch of history that you're interested in? Can they dance to this song? Can they beat this guy at arm-wrestling? Do they feel an innate connection to nature and the cosmos that they can share with you? Do they have the stamina to go all night? All these and many more are ways to impress/please a romantic partner, and relative skill in each one can (and indeed should) be indicated by 1 of the 6 primary stats.

 

You've never heard my theory about how Kivan & Coran started out as a single character until BioWare split them into 2, have you? Well, about Kivan being sexier to some people despite having only half of Coran's CHA: It's remarkably difficult to be persuasive or a good leader when you hardly ever say anything. Granted, a lot of people go for the strong, silent type, but I think that's a personality trait, wholly divorced from one's actual Charisma--it's simply one of the few attractive personality traits that you don't need a high Charisma to pull off. And 8 CHA is not low, in fact it's not even out of the "average" range. The fact that it's rock-bottom for an Elf is almost certainly because Kivan never talks.

 

Idle thought: jcompton, or somebody who's involved both in romances and in Detectable Spells, should come up with a code block that disables both flirts and Romance banters while either partner is under the influence of a Wild Surge: Sex Change. (Unless certain characters want it that way, I suppose.)

[berelinde]

For a full-fledged romance, I'd code it Domi's way. In fact, I did code it Domi's way, at least to a point. Gavin's still got stat, class and alignment restrictions, but his behavior toward the PC is moderated by how much he likes the PC, thanks to the dialogue choices he or she made. If the PC offends him too greatly, over a period of time, he might even discontinue a friendship or romance.

 

For a fling, I coded it that way for a couple of the encounters. If you misuse Aimi and then talk to her boss, he won't like you much. If Laran likes the PC a lot, he'll ask her if he can carry her favor into battle.

 

All the encounters I wrote are finished. There will be nothing added to them.

[Domi]

Can they entertain you with a display of juggling? Have they read up on the branch of history that you're interested in? Can they dance to this song? Can they beat this guy at arm-wrestling? Do they feel an innate connection to nature and the cosmos that they can share with you? Do they have the stamina to go all night? All these and many more are ways to impress/please a romantic partner, and relative skill in each one can (and indeed should) be indicated by 1 of the 6 primary stats.

 

I would agree here if you placed a check on a particular conversational option that is outstanding and very particular (ie you give the character an option to juggle and if he has a higher DEX he juggles briliantly, less so, drops the balls) and I will make the NPC react accordingly.

 

But you are suggesting to place the check on an entire encounter, suggesting that the player should go consume spells and potions to get the things going. That what makes it flawed imo. When it concerns the entire relationship, I'd rather let the player decide if Int 12 in conjunction with WIS 18 is sufficient to have had their character to be appealing to an intellectual, or Int 13 is required, or nothing but 18 would do. The quantification of the stats, alignments and classes is very wishy-washy, very much open to the personal interpretation and once you move to the 3 ED it is not fixed any more and in itself becomes dynamic.

 

Anyway, in a mod like Romantic Encounters, I'd be looking for the reasons to include, rather than the reasons to exclude, and as a player I would be greatful for the ability to experience more rather than less on one play-through. Thus, I fail to see the value of multiple and too restrictive checks each of which I find arguable.

[Kitana]

The "bloat of components" could easily be forestalled by making 2 separate mods, as Immortality says. But we could also do much better than that: Install all 40 individual encounters as one component. Unless anybody can think of a reason why someone would like to flirt with Ilona, but not Sheri? (Noober might be an exception to this, though.)

 

I personally didn't install Edwin's component due to possible cross-mod conflict, and I was originally not going to install Coran's but changed my mind. Then again, I don't mind going through a lot of components.

[berelinde]

Maybe my priorities are kind of wacky, but I would rather allow the player the choice of installing each component separately than lump them together, even if they were lumped together by maturity level. But I do draw the line at one choice per encounter, though.

 

cmorgan has some funky code that would allow the player to chose 1, 2, n, or q as opposed to the usual y, n, or q, but I haven't played with the EVALUATE_BUFFER command enough to be comfortable using it without a lot of hand-holding. Yes, I know this i my fault not his. He's nothing if not patient in explaining stuff.

 

The main reason for my reluctance is that I don't want to play with completed components anymore. I'm happy with them, so I want to leave them alone. I still plan to do the cumulative Anomen reaction, but that will probably be my last contribution to RE. It's fun, but I've got a lot of stuff on the back burner that needs to have the heat turned up.

[Kulyok]

I personally didn't install Edwin's component due to possible cross-mod conflict, and I was originally not going to install Coran's but changed my mind. Then again, I don't mind going through a lot of components.

 

We checked Edwin repeatedly, and they should work fine together, if you install Edwin Romance FIRST - as I posted in their forums, Edwin Romance coders overwrite Edwin's dream script, possibly creating crossmod problems with every NPC-enhancing mod out there.