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Goblins in Irenicus' Dungeon using Composite Longbows


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It's hard to say this is not intended--Bio certainly didn't mind implementing illegal weapons, creatures with illegal stats, illegal abilities, etc. Without a clear indication that this is not intended I'm inclined to leave it alone.

 

The only thing I might offer in support of changing it is that it confuses the vanilla AI scripts in some circumstances. If you close to melee, the goblins shift to melee weapons. If you retreat again, the goblins try to shift back to missile weapons but can't as they can't legally equip their bows. It's a bit tenuous though.

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Yeah, it's pretty weird. I think I changed them to short bows or regular long bows locally, but I agree with Cam that we just don't know what they were thinking to be able to change it at this point.

 

On the upside, the problem with switching to invalid weapons really shouldn't exist (they should be able to swap to any weapon in any of the four quick weapon slots, even if they're not a class that gets four slots, regardless of item requirements). And it wouldn't have affected BG, because the requirements aren't respected for anyone there.

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The 18 Strenght requirement for the Composite Long Bow is illogical and unrealistic.

 

Composite Long Bow are built in a way that they require less strenght than normal bows to operate.

 

Also, you can check this:

 

Composite Long Bow - has its Minimum Strength set to 18, when the context of the other bows, including the Composite Long Bow +1, suggest a Minimum Strength of 8 - from Smoketest.

 

Smoketest and Dudley had noticed the inconsistency and patched it.

 

Now we can say that givine a STR requirement of 18 for Composite Long Bows was developer's intention although I'd really like to know how they'd make their point about it.

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From the "Arms and Equipment Guide", a 2E AD&D supplement:

 

Composite Bows

 

Composite bows are long bows or short bows whose staves are made from more than one type of material. This gives greater flexibility, and thus better range. These were developed after the normal long bow. The second material that makes up a long bow may be anything from another type of wood to bone, sinew, or metal. The different materials are usually glued together.

 

An adventurer who wishes to gain a damage bonus from high Strength when wielding a bow must purchase specially crafted bows. Such a bow costs the normal price for a bow plus the normal price again for every bonus point desired. Thus, a warrior with 17 Strength who wants a long bow (base cost 75 gp) that gives him his +1 bonus to damage rolls would have to pay a total of 150 gp. The same fighter with 18/00 Strength (+6 bonus to damage) would pay 525 gp. These bows can be strung and drawn only by characters of that Strength or higher. Others attempting this must make a successful bend bars/lift gates roll.

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I suspect, but have no way to prove, that the developers never really intended all those longbows to be composite bows (or that some of the previous posters were correct, and it's the strength requirement that was not intended). There are basic missle weapons of every type in the 1st dungeon - slings, throwing daggers and axes, shortbows, crossbows. Yet the only longbows are all composite longbows, which require (absurdly) truly exceptional strength to use. Why should a character specializing in longbows be forced to have 18 strength in order to use a missle weapon in Chateau Irenicus?

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Guest I was in the neighbourhood
Composite Bows

 

Composite bows are long bows or short bows whose staves are made from more than one type of material. This gives greater flexibility, and thus better range. These were developed after the normal long bow. The second material that makes up a long bow may be anything from another type of wood to bone, sinew, or metal. The different materials are usually glued together.

 

An adventurer who wishes to gain a damage bonus from high Strength when wielding a bow must purchase specially crafted bows. Such a bow costs the normal price for a bow plus the normal price again for every bonus point desired. Thus, a warrior with 17 Strength who wants a long bow (base cost 75 gp) that gives him his +1 bonus to damage rolls would have to pay a total of 150 gp. The same fighter with 18/00 Strength (+6 bonus to damage) would pay 525 gp. These bows can be strung and drawn only by characters of that Strength or higher. Others attempting this must make a successful bend bars/lift gates roll.

This extract doesn't really give a STR requirement however, i.e. I don't see a "Min STR Req." number there. On the other hand, judging by the examples in the quote, I could argue that a Comp Longbow needs 17 min STR -- or perhaps 18/00 (rather than just plain 18). So...

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The minimum strength requirement of a composite long bow is calculated according to the damage bonus which it was crafted to confer. For example, a composite long bow which deals one additional point of damage can only be wielded by characters who at least posses a strength score of 16, as that is the lowest value which grants a damage bonus in 2E AD&D.

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Guest I have returned

So what is the "real" minimum Strength then, i.e. for a "basic" composite longbow (that does no bonus damage)?

 

Sorry for the possible/probable stupidity in my questions but I've never played 2+ ed. except in the BG/ID games. And sorry for taking the topic away from the poor little goblins too :)

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So what is the "real" minimum Strength then, i.e. for a "basic" composite longbow (that does no bonus damage)?

 

There's no such thing. :) In PnP AD&D, composite bows do not actually deal additional damage, they merely allow a character to add his existing damage bonus (which is derived from his strength score) to the regular missile damage. Thus, a character would require at least 16 strength in order to wield the lowliest composite bow variety.

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