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Offtopic Anvil Discussion


the bigg

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Baronious, again, I’m not talking at all about your comments directed at berelinde. I’m just pointing out what I see as a similarity between your misleading comment re the bigg, and the bigg’s comment about fake posters. But I’ve pretty much beaten that to death, so ‘nuff said. :)

 

I realize that there has never been any disputes between SP and G3, PPG, etc. Probably in part because SP's "reason for being" is somewhat different from the others; the other sites are there primarily (although not necessarily exclusively) to promote their own mods, whereas SP doesn't generally have it's own mods to promote, so the focus is different. Plus I suspect Tal wouldn’t have a lot of patience for inter-site disputes anyway, so he’d probably put an end to it pretty quick. (Egads, I hope my involvement here doesn't start a war between SP and other sites! :) Just to make it clear, I'm acting on my own. I am not here as an official representative of SP. :) )

 

I'm surprised you post here at all, Splunge. Most SP members usually avoid these sites.

I think most SP’ers avoid these sites because SP is geared towards players, whereas I gather the other sites are more for modders. So the paths tend not to cross too much other than when modders let SP know about new/updated mods, or offer their usually very helpful suggestions when players post on SP looking for help. (And the “very helpful†part applies to you as well, Baronious; you, along with many other modders, are always willing to offer your much-appreciated assistance at SP.)

 

Actually, the only reason I came here in the first place was because I saw the thread that Sikret started (so you can actually blame him for me getting involved :) ), and kind of got a kick out of the fireworks. And as usual, once I start following something, I find it hard to resist putting in my useless 2 cents worth. :) Realistically, once I get bored of this whole thing (and I suspect that’s going to happen sooner rather than later), I’ll probably just disappear from PPG, and stick with my rather infrequent posting on SP.

 

Again, my intent isn’t to insult anyone here. I’m just being my normal smart-ass. :thumbsup:

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dizzyorange: well, if someone thinks this and that sucks in it, he or she can just tell it to an admin in PM/email. NO, it won't have any negative consequences. (In fact, the ToU encourages it.) Just imagine that 20 people have 20 different opinions. What would become of a thread if everyone could tell it publicly? It would end in flaming, and would tempt more and more "temujins" too. :) And no people would be modding, because it would distract their attention, while making no improvement in the ToU.

 

Well, while many people refuse BWL policies, more and more individuals tend to understand it. So it's not a hopeless case to make people understand: this is "different" and "minority", but not necessarily "wrong". Dizzyorange, I advise you to get familiar with BWL on your own, not based on what you hear in threads such as this. If I had problems with a site, I couldn't give unbiased opinion even if I wanted to! So if you want, just come. What about a visit for a temporary time? :thumbsup: If you have a mod to develop, or just need ftp space for it; say, 1 GB. Or if you don't mod, then, well, you can bring some life to our Gaming forums by making up some new topics. If it's more active, you could be a Moderator of it too. :)

 

P.S. (just noticed your edit): Many of the BWL members were born in countries that belonged to USSR. We know what you're talking about. None of us were servants of the system, in fact completely refused all of it. We believe in freedom of speech, but not ultimate freedom of speech. "Say something if you won't hurt someone with it". However, wondering why BWL doesn't work as a democracy, where rules are made based on the votes of its members? Many reasons. One example: a democracy has citizens. Citizens have both rights and obligations, and they can be identified, i.e. they aren't anonymous. On the other hand, a virtual community grants only rights to visitors, and *everyone* (you, myself, everyone) is anonymous. Nothing proves our identity. So there are democratic guidelines to administrate a virtual community, but not full, classic democracy.

 

You make some valid points there, Baronius. I can't say I agree 100% with them, but you have valid reasons for doing what you do and I respect that. And yes I've been checking out BWL for a while now, and have really enjoyed Tower of Deception.

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DizzyOrange:

 

Thank you for your kind words.

 

To tell the truth, I'm really against any such strain that seems to be happening in these days.

 

As we know, there have been very not nice posts about IA. You won't find any such post in any of the G3/PPG mod forums made by a BWL member. The only mod we seriously criticized (and with detailed arguments) is BG2 Fixpack, but only after IA's incompatibility with BG2 Fixpack was constantly questioned in an arrogant way, so that wasn't our initiation either. We've never initiatied any attack or even tactless criticism on a mod, because we believe each player is free to select his or her mods, and this is a free hobby.

 

I think BWL is in the focus of these attacks because some people feel that their fundamental principles about liberty are violated. Often, even they don't realize this is the source of their doubts, because the presence of this factor is unintentional, spontaneous. They view it from one viewpoint all the time, hence the feeling "BWL is unfair" all the time.

 

There have always been a well-known, unwritten guideline: "If I go to your house, I respect your rules of the house. If you come to my house, you respect the rules of my house." Some people have been constantly trying to change certain features of BWL. I really have no other choice than acting radically after I told the same answer 10 times "Sorry, this thing won't change, I already told my arguments".

 

You make some valid points there, Baronius. I can't say I agree 100% with them, but you have valid reasons for doing what you do and I respect that.

I really appreciate that. "Let's respect each other", that's the only thing I've been asking from everyone. A litle respect, a little tolerance.

 

If you ever happen to be more active at BWL for some reason (and thus you can see it closely), you will experience it on your own skin that it's a friendly place. If you will feel otherwise, lift your tone and I will be the first to draw the attention to your problem and make the biggest effort to sort it out!

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dizzyorange: well, if someone thinks this and that sucks in it, he or she can just tell it to an admin in PM/email. NO, it won't have any negative consequences. (In fact, the ToU encourages it.) Just imagine that 20 people have 20 different opinions. What would become of a thread if everyone could tell it publicly? It would end in flaming, and would tempt more and more "temujins" too. :) And no people would be modding, because it would distract their attention, while making no improvement in the ToU.

 

Well, while many people refuse BWL policies, more and more individuals tend to understand it. So it's not a hopeless case to make people understand: this is "different" and "minority", but not necessarily "wrong". Dizzyorange, I advise you to get familiar with BWL on your own, not based on what you hear in threads such as this. If I had problems with a site, I couldn't give unbiased opinion even if I wanted to! So if you want, just come. What about a visit for a temporary time? :thumbsup: If you have a mod to develop, or just need ftp space for it; say, 1 GB. Or if you don't mod, then, well, you can bring some life to our Gaming forums by making up some new topics. If it's more active, you could be a Moderator of it too. :)

 

P.S. (just noticed your edit): Many of the BWL members were born in countries that belonged to USSR. We know what you're talking about. None of us were servants of the system, in fact completely refused all of it. We believe in freedom of speech, but not ultimate freedom of speech. "Say something if you won't hurt someone with it". However, wondering why BWL doesn't work as a democracy, where rules are made based on the votes of its members? Many reasons. One example: a democracy has citizens. Citizens have both rights and obligations, and they can be identified, i.e. they aren't anonymous. On the other hand, a virtual community grants only rights to visitors, and *everyone* (you, myself, everyone) is anonymous. Nothing proves our identity. So there are democratic guidelines to administrate a virtual community, but not full, classic democracy.

 

Freedom of speech is an illusion on the internet. It is dictated, controlled by those who happen to be in charge of the website or message boards.

 

This is true but when it comes to deleting/editing anothers post or removing their topic, is a little heavy handed if you ask me. If they make a fool of themselves, let the whole world see it. If they happen to speak the truth and the opposition doesn't like it, well hey, the truth hurts.

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The first post from you which has an actual meaning, and tactful. Thanks, Gabrielle. Of course, you are of the rebelling sort I know, so I'm prepared for a cold shower, e.g. that your words weren't directed at me etc. :thumbsup:

 

Well, law is law. Rules of a virtual community are rules. As a citizen of a more or less democratic country, you surely know Gabrielle that evidence is required to give a basis to statements, accusations etc. People who complain that their post was removed because it contained an undesired opinion, just say "I can't give proof because it was deleted". And? The exact context itself can't be retrieved either. (Whole thread was removed, new posts appeared etc.) The context (such as the topic that surrounded the post, content of other posts, etc.) which explains how it violated the ToU.

 

To cut a long story short, everyone who feels he/she was mistreated at BWL should ask from himself/herself (and not from others to discuss it!): "Did I agree with the Terms of Use? At least, did I try to obey them when posting?" If the answer is no, any talk about removed opinions, administrator censoring etc. gets pointless. (Example: a topic got too flaming, and gets closed. Reopening it and shouting, complaining etc. in the new thread will result in deletion, regardless of the other content in the new thread.) Any feelings about truth, fairness, freedom of speech etc. are useless, if the rules haven't been respected. Bottom line.

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Seriously, folks, I think we need to make Baronius some sort of trophy in recognition of superlative effort to deflect and swerve criticism.

 

I'll chip in a few bucks.

Count me in as well.

 

He pulled the same crap when people were seriously discussing and critiquing IA and chose to shift the focus to the g3 fixpack, among other things.

 

Now, he talks about the BWL members being oppressed by the USSR so that somehow justifies the way he administrates the forums. :) (still funny though, I have to admit)

 

 

Oh, I remember now. Your account was blocked because you refused to stop, you opened new topics after your post had been deleted, and complained that there is no freedom of speech, everything is deleted which is disliked by adminstrators etc. You knew it very well that all that violates the Terms of Use, and I drawn your attention to it in a PM too. The account was blocked for a few hours. As for why your post was deleted, it had its reasons. It wasn't fully on-topic, and you had been asked several times beforehand to follow the ToU. Yet you kept raising issues about administration and moderation policies publicly, which isn't allowed at BWL.

:thumbsup: Makes you feel like a big man to abuse whatever miniscule power you have on the internet, doesn't it?

 

Anyone that takes this joker seriously should be forced to play the The Circle mod with a protagonist named Baronisu.

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Shouldn't this thread be moved over to the craptalk forum if they are going to keep going with this shit? The off-topic discussion is lasting longer than the actual discussion about IA.

Girl, if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. This thread is specifically "for all of your grandstanding, condescension, insults, conspiracy theories, and attacks on random mods." - Camdawg's own words. Go use the other thread if you still feel like actually discussing IA.

 

I've personally bookmarked this thread to keep checking in for a good source of entertainment (especially after a long day). And it's obvious I'm not the only one. :thumbsup:

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