Concerning Breach

[Guest Kobold]

Hi there!

 

First off, I wanted to congratulate you on a pretty fine mod overall. While I have my issues with some parts of it, I have really enjoyed most of my current game.

 

Now, onto my question : I had been looking forward to your changes to the Breach spell, supposedly changing it so it is stopped by Spell Turning/Spell Trap etc. - it sadly doesn't work for me though. Is there a known compatibility issue that I'm not aware of or is it maybe even generally bugged right now ?

I get no errors installing the mod, but when I cast Breach none of the Spell Protection spells seem to stop it. All that changes for me is that now Breach isn't even stopped by Spell Shield anymore either, which used to be that way in the original game iirc. Spell Shield stays up but the combat protections still get dispelled.

I have been mostly testing this on my own party, I guess it really shouldn't make any difference since the spell cast by enemies should be the same ?

 

Anyways, I'd really like to get this to work, it's a great idea to beef up the spell protection spells. I'd like to find out if anyone is having the same problem (and maybe even found a way to solve it) before I do any major reinstalling of my mods though.

 

I'll post my WeiDU.log in case anyone is interested :

// Log of Currently Installed WeiDU Mods
// The top of the file is the 'oldest' mod
// ~TP2_File~ #language_number #component_number // [Subcomponent Name -> ] Component Name
~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #0 // BG2 Fixpack - Core Fixes
~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #1 // BG2 Fixpack - Game Text Update
~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #2 // Super Happy Fun Lucky Modder Pack
~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #3 // BETA Core Fixes (please check the readme!)
~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #100 // Party Gets XP for Sending Keldorn to Reconcile With Maria
~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #101 // Improved Spell Animations
~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #102 // Cromwell's Forging Actually Takes a Day
~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #103 // Mixed-Use Dagger Fixes
~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #104 // Ghreyfain's Holy Symbol Fixes
~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #106 // Giants Receive Penalties When Attacking Halflings,   Dwarves, and Gnomes
~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #107 // Remove Dual-Classing Restriction from Archers   and Stalkers
~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #108 // Remove Second Attribute Bonus for Evil Path in  Wrath Hell Trial
~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #109 // Corrected Summoned Demon Behavior
~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #110 // Additional Script Fixes
~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #111 // Bard Song Fixes
~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #112 // Wizard Slayers Cause Miscast Magic on Ranged Attacks
~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #113 // Additional Alignment Fixes
~SETUP-ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #0 // Ascension v1.41 (requires ToB)
~SETUP-ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #1 // Tougher Abazigal (optional, requires ToB)
~SETUP-ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #2 // Original Tougher Demogorgon (optional, requires ToB)
~SETUP-ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #3 // Tougher Gromnir (optional, requires ToB)
~SETUP-ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #4 // Tougher Illasera (optional, requires ToB)
~SETUP-ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #5 // Tougher Yaga-Shura (optional, requires ToB)
~SETUP-REDEMPTION.TP2~ #0 #0 // Redemption 1.2.0 requires BG2:ToB:Ascension v1.4.xx
~SETUP-REDEMPTION.TP2~ #0 #1 // New Portrait for Irenicus - for the Ascension/Redemption part only (from the 'Jon with blue flame' poster by Bio)
~SETUP-OVERSIGHT.TP2~ #0 #0 // Tougher Sendai (ToB Required)
~SETUP-D0QUESTPACK.TP2~ #0 #0 // General AI Improvements
~SETUP-D0QUESTPACK.TP2~ #0 #1 // Creature & Area Improvements -> All Creature & Area Improvements
~SETUP-D0QUESTPACK.TP2~ #0 #2 // Creature & Area Improvements -> All Creature Improvements
~SETUP-D0QUESTPACK.TP2~ #0 #3 // Creature & Area Improvements -> Boss Improvements Only
~SETUP-D0QUESTPACK.TP2~ #0 #4 // Alternative Harper/Xzar Plot
~SETUP-D0QUESTPACK.TP2~ #0 #5 // Extended Reynald Sequence
~SETUP-D0QUESTPACK.TP2~ #0 #6 // Intrigue In The Copper Coronet
~SETUP-D0QUESTPACK.TP2~ #0 #7 // Rahul Kanakia's Potion Quest
~SETUP-D0QUESTPACK.TP2~ #0 #8 // Revised Hell Trials
~SETUP-D0QUESTPACK.TP2~ #0 #9 // Improved Oasis II -> IO2 Dialogue & Combat Enhancement
~SETUP-D0QUESTPACK.TP2~ #0 #11 // Saving Sanik In Brynnlaw
~SETUP-D0QUESTPACK.TP2~ #0 #12 // Burglary Of The Bookkeeper
~SETUP-D0QUESTPACK.TP2~ #0 #13 // New Fate For The Dryads' Acorns
~SETUP-D0QUESTPACK.TP2~ #0 #14 // The Tragedy Of Besamen
~SETUP-D0QUESTPACK.TP2~ #0 #15 // Further Slaver Involvement
~SETUP-D0QUESTPACK.TP2~ #0 #16 // Sending The Solamnic Knights Home
~SETUP-D0QUESTPACK.TP2~ #0 #17 // Nazariel The Lich
~SETUP-D0QUESTPACK.TP2~ #0 #18 // Reward Negotiation
~SETUP-D0QUESTPACK.TP2~ #0 #19 // Infernal Thievery
~SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #1 // The Suna Seni/Valygar Relationship
~SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #2 // Kalah and What He Was Promised
~SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #3 // "Cat and Mouse" (Bodhi hunts you in Spellhold) by Ghreyfain
~SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #4 // Gorje Hilldark and the Extended Illithium Quest
~SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #5 // The Pai'Na/Spider's Bane Quest
~SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #6 // Restored Crooked Crane Inn
~SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #7 // Restored Encounters
~SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #8 // Artemis Entreri in Bodhi's Lair
~SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #9 // Corrected "Xzar's Creations"
~SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #10 // Restored Hell Minions, by SimDing0
~SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #11 // Gorf the Squisher Fix, by Gebhard Blucher
~SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #12 // Item Restorations
~SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #15 // NPC Portrait Restorations
~SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #16 // Corrected BAMs and Scripts
~SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #17 // Corrected Character Names and Biographies
~SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #19 // Restored Bhaalspawn Powers, by David Gaider
~SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #20 // Extended ToB Item Descriptions
~SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #21 // Throne of Bhaal Minor Restorations
~SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #24 // Sarevok's Remorse
~SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #18 // Restored Minor Dialogs
~SETUP-TACTICS.TP2~ #0 #1 // The Ritual (requires ToB)
~SETUP-TACTICS.TP2~ #0 #15 // Kensai Ryu's Improved Crypt King
~SETUP-TACTICS.TP2~ #0 #17 // Gebhard Blucher's Random City Encounters
~SETUP-TACTICS.TP2~ #0 #20 // Improved Golems
~SETUP-TACTICS.TP2~ #0 #28 // Göran Rimén's Improved Nymphs
~SETUP-TACTICS.TP2~ #0 #29 // Kensai Ryu's Improved Copper Coronet
~SETUP-TACTICS.TP2~ #0 #32 // Mike Barnes' Improved North Forest
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #10 // Detectable spells and effects (required for most other components)
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #20 // Allow Spellstrike to take down a Protection from Magic scroll
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #40 // Antimagic attacks penetrate improved invisibility
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #50 // Iron Skins behaves like Stoneskin (can be brought down by Breach)
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #60 // Modify the Harm spell so it does damage rather than reducing target to 1 hp -> Enemy Harm spells reduce target to 1 hit point; player Harm spells do 150 hp of damage
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #70 // Make individual versions of Spell Immunity available, so that players can use them in Contingencies etc.
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #100 // Cap damage done by Skull Trap at 12d6
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #110 // Make Minute Meteors into +2 weapons
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #113 // Reduce the power of Inquisitors' Dispel Magic -> Inquisitors dispel at 1.5 x their level (not twice their level)
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #120 // Remove the Shield of Balduran from the game
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #140 // Move Vhailor's Helm into Throne of Bhaal
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #150 // Move the Robe of Vecna into Throne of Bhaal
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #155 // Replace +1 magical weapons with Fine ones
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #160 // Remove unrealistically helpful items from certain areas
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #170 // Remove unrealistically convenient ammunition from certain areas
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #175 // Faster Bears
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #182 // Increase the price asked by Gaylan Baele -> Gaylan wants 80,000 gold pieces
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #190 // Make Watchers' Keep accessible between SoA and ToB
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #201 // Prevent party members from dying irreversibly
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #220 // Smarter general AI
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #230 // Better calls for help
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #235 // Potions for NPCs
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #238 // Improved Spiders
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #240 // Improved fiends -> Fiends have fast, uninterruptable innate magic
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #250 // Smarter genies -> Genies have fast, uninterruptable innate magic
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #261 // Smarter celestials -> Celestials cast spells like normal wizards
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #270 // Smarter dragons -> Dragons have fast, uninterruptable innate magic
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #281 // Smarter beholders -> Upgrade the beholders found in the hive in the Underdark (borrowed from Quest Pack)
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #290 // Smarter mind flayers
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #300 // Smarter githyanki
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #310 // Enemy mages use Simulacrum and Project Image spells (this component will have no effect unless you install Smarter Mages)
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #320 // Smarter Mages -> Mages cast some short-duration spells instantly at start of combat, to simulate pre-battle casting
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #330 // Smarter Priests -> Priests cast some short-duration spells instantly at start of combat, to simulate pre-battle casting
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #340 // Add high-level abilities (HLAs) to ToB mages -> Only selected ToB mages get HLAs
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #350 // Add high-level abilities (HLAs) to ToB priests -> Only selected ToB priestss get HLAs
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #360 // Add high-level abilities (HLAs) to SoA mages -> Only selected SoA mages get HLAs
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #370 // Add high-level abilities (HLAs) to SoA priests -> Only selected SoA priestss get HLAs
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #380 // Improved d'Arnise Keep ("Tactics Remix")
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #385 // Enhanced Sendai's Enclave
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #387 // Improved Shade Lord
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #400 // Increase difficulty of level-dependent monster groupings -> Mildly increased difficulty
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #410 // Improved minor encounters [almost no content yet]
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #415 // Give SCS II style AI to Ascension enemies
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #420 // Ease-of-use party AI
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #440 // Move Boo into Minsc's pack
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #80 // Revert Greater Restoration back to only affecting one creature
~RR/SETUP-RR.TP2~ #0 #0 // Proper dual-wielding implementation for Thieves and Bards
~RR/SETUP-RR.TP2~ #0 #1 // Thief kit revisions
~RR/SETUP-RR.TP2~ #0 #2 // Bard kit revisions
~RR/SETUP-RR.TP2~ #0 #3 // Bard High Level Ability revisions
~RR/SETUP-RR.TP2~ #0 #4 // Proper spell progression for Bards
~RR/SETUP-RR.TP2~ #0 #5 // Additional equipment for Thieves and Bards
~RR/SETUP-RR.TP2~ #0 #6 // Revised Thievery
~RR/SETUP-RR.TP2~ #0 #7 // Chosen of Cyric encounter
~RR/SETUP-RR.TP2~ #0 #8 // Shadow Thief Improvements
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #50 // Avatar Morphing Script
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #60 // Weapon Animation Tweaks
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #90 // Disable Portrait Icons Added by Equipped Items
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #100 // Commoners Use Drab Colors
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #110 // Icon Improvements
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #130 // Force All Dialogue to Pause Game
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1010 // More Interjections
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1020 // Alter HP Triggers for NPC Wounded Dialogues
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1040 // Improved Athkatlan City Guard
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1080 // Add Bags of Holding
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1140 // Gems and Potions Require Identification
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1161 // Multiple Strongholds (Baldurdash) -> Keep Class Restrictions
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1170 // Bonus Merchants (Baldurdash)
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1180 // Female Edwina
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2020 // Two-Handed Bastard Swords
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2030 // Two-Handed Katanas
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2150 // Wear Multiple Protection Items -> P&P Restrictions
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2192 // Limit Ability of Storekeepers to Identify Items -> Hybrid of Both Methods
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2210 // True Grand Mastery (Baldurdash)
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3001 // Higher HP on Level Up -> NWN Style
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3040 // Make Bags of Holding Bottomless
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3060 // Remove "You Must Gather Your Party..." Sound (Weimer)
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3070 // Change Effect of Reputation on Store Prices -> Low Reputation Store Discount (Sabre)
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3121 // Happy Patch (Party NPCs do not fight or complain about reputation) -> NPCs can be angry about reputation but never leave (Salk)
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3125 // Neutral Characters Make Happy Comments at  Mid-Range Reputation
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3150 // Turn Off The Hideous Cloak-of-Mirroring, Spell-Trap, and Physical Mirror Animations
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #4010 // Improved Fate Spirit Summoning
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #4020 // ToB-Style NPCs
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #4050 // Change Jaheira to Neutral Good
~TB#TWEAKS/TB#TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #150 // Imprisonment Fix. (v2.10)
~TB#TWEAKS/TB#TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #200 // Flesh to Stone Fix. (v2.10)
~TB#TWEAKS/TB#TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #300 // Drop Weapons in Panic Effect Removal. (v2.10)
~TB#TWEAKS/TB#TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2050 // Improved Difficulty System. -> Serious dialogue (recommended). (v2.10)
~SETUP-XPMOD.TP2~ #0 #5 // Locks, Traps and Spells XP Reduction -> Reduce to 75%
~SETUP-XPMOD.TP2~ #0 #10 // No XP for learning spells
~SETUP-VIRTUE.TP2~ #0 #0 // Virtue
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #10 // Remove Helmet Animations
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #30 // More consistent Breach spell (always affects liches and rakshasas; doesn't penetrate Spell Turning)

[DavidW]

It's not your fault. It turns out to be a bug that had crept into the component in a late modification - sorry. Version 2 should be out very soon and will fix it.

 

I'd be interested to hear your other issues - feedback always welcomed.

[Guest Guest]

Well after having played around a bit more with it, it seems that sometimes enemy mages were even completely immune to the Breach Spell that I can cast, not so for enemies who cast it at me. The wand of spell striking that I got from the Chosen of Cyric encounter (still in SoA) seemed to work on enemies like in the original game though.

Lots of strange behavior there, so I had to deinstall that part for now. Kinda odd that I didn't notice it earlier but then I didn't really have the capacity to cast a lot of Breaches/pierce magics up until now in my game. I am very much looking forward to your fix, though.

 

I'd be interested to hear your other issues - feedback always welcomed.

 

It's kinda hard for me to do this now, I didn't take notes while playing through the game, but I'll try to think about some of the things that bugged me and add them in a while. For now, just a couple of bugs that I could think of at the top of my head :

 

- enemy mages sometimes summon efreeti for aid. They never did anything to me though. Just kept standing there, hostile (red circle) but not taking any action. Not even when attacking and even killing them did they do anything. I could only confirm it for efreeti, I don't know if it applies to djinni as well. Other enemy summons (like demons or mordenkaines) are behaving normal though.

- there is also a fighter (I forget his name) in the Twisted Rune fight with Shangalar and his lackeys who behaved just like that, just kept standing there doing nothing during the whole fight.

- Staff of the Magi change was bugged for me. It removed the invisibility effect alright, but it also bugged the spell trap it allows you to cast. When using it I never actually got the spell trap effect and it even crashed the game a couple times for me, so I had to deinstall it.

[aVENGER_(RR)]

The wand of spell striking that I got from the Chosen of Cyric encounter (still in SoA) seemed to work on enemies like in the original game though.

 

For the record, that wand was not altered by Rogue Rebalancing in any way. It's exactly the same as the Wand of Spell Striking which can be found on level 2 of Watcher's Keep (WAND18.ITM).

 

BTW, I hope you liked the CoC encounter.

[Guest Kobold]

BTW, I hope you liked the CoC encounter.

Sure did, was actually my second run through with that mod so I kinda knew what was coming and saved a few spells while killing Bodhi. It was still fun and a good challenge, I wanted to rely on my spell trap saving me from the Breach, boy was I in for a surprise

Have to say it's one of my favorite encounters, though it does get kinda tedious when only Venduris (is that his name?) remains and I didn't want to spoil the rest of my game so I had to leave most of the loot behind.

Anyways, my hat's off to you for designing such a great encounter!

[DavidW]

OK, that's not the first comment on a problem with summoned efreeti.

 

They work fine on my install so I think maybe it's an incompatibility with Quest Pack AI. I'll have to test it when I have a chance.

 

The Staff of the Magi is a known bug, the next release (imminent) will fix it.

[Gort]

efreeties behaved fine in earlier versions, weirdness appeared later upon first public release

[aVENGER_(RR)]

Have to say it's one of my favorite encounters, though it does get kinda tedious when only Venduris (is that his name?) remains and I didn't want to spoil the rest of my game so I had to leave most of the loot behind.

 

Yeah, it's kind of irksome that Venduris can't be detected via True Seeing and such but casting a Remove/Dispel Magic in his general direction always reveals him. Also, casting a Power Word: Stun on him once he's wounded can help immensely.

 

BTW, David, if you want consistent behavior between the Wand of Spell Striking and the Breach spell, you might want to change the wand to actually cast Breach (i.e. as a scroll).

[DavidW]

efreeties behaved fine in earlier versions, weirdness appeared later upon first public release

... and still work fine on my install, which is what is confusing me. I think it has to be an incompatibility but I haven't had time to look for it yet.

 

If anyone (a) manages to pin down the incompatibility, or (b) has nonfunctional efreeti on a "clean" install (fixpack + SCSII + not much else), let me know.

[Guest Kobold]

Alright, here’s some random feedback for ya :

 

I ran into a couple of Yuan-ti Mages relatively early in the game (think it was either Arnise Keep or Rescuing Haer’dalis) who cast Spell Sequencers with 3xSkull Trap. For me that was way overkill and more bothersome than fun. Sure it’s legitimate and not really such a high level use of spells (although I don’t think Yuan-ti had access to level 7 spells in the original game, did they?), but it’s still cheesy.

It’s basically an uninterruptable instant-cast with no way to anticipate it’s coming, doing 36d6 (even with your changes) on a failed save which is way more than any single spell of any level does. I would have even preferred them casting dragon’s breath instead, for while that has a very short cast time, there’s at least a chance of interrupting it and protection from fire is much easier to come by than from magic at that point in the game (lvl3 vs lvl6 mage spell and available priest buffs plus a hoard of fire resistance gear). Not to mention that they cast Remove Magic also. Minor Globes of Invulnerability or Spell Immunity would have worked, but they’re self only and my casters really didn’t have anything to kill the Yuan-ti with at that point, thanks to their own Spell Protections and even Magic Resistance.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting they should be able to cast Dragon's Breath here, just trying to show the absurd imbalance comparing the two.

 

Ironically, I have played through the whole of Shadows of Amn by now and never saw that 3xSkull Trap Sequencer again, not by any of the high level spellcasters like liches (I left out Kangaxx and his guardians though) or even Irenicus. In those fights it would have made some sense at least, since they are supposed to be the most challenging encounters and are usually one guy vs my whole group whereas Yuan-ti typically come in packs with sometimes even several casters at once.

I generally dislike 3x anything Spell Sequencers (Skull Trap, Flame Arrows, 3x Horrid Wilting Chain Contingency, etc.) and refrain from using them. I hoped enemies would not use them either since they are much too powerful for their intended level (again with a couple of exceptions like Irenicus where it would make some sense in the name of challenge)

 

Generally, I found the fights with high level spellcasters later in the game much easier than the low level stuff at the start. Maybe it has something to do with me adjusting to the way mages work in your mod or my party finally starting to come into it’s own (quite a bit of multiclassing going on there), I don’t know. It took me only 2 tries to kill Irenicus in Hell without any casualties though and that can’t be a good sign given that it was my first go at it. I think I would have beat it the first time if I had realized the Tree of Life berries aren’t an instant munch like potions are . My party experience shouldn’t be anything out of the norm either, ranging from ~2.6million on imoen to ~2.8 on my paladin.

I can’t comment much on the fight since I really only did it those two times.

His use of wish->time stop->melee someone to death was pretty decent but he was too easily distracted by summons standing in his way. After that he pretty much degenerated into very predictable melee engagement. I can’t really remember the original Hell Irenicus since it’s been such a long time that I played him so I can’t tell how much harder it actually is.

In general I found your casters to use odd tactics versus summons (Shangalar even used a Dragon’s Breath on a lone Aerial Servant, what did he do, steal his cookies ?) Maybe a couple more Death Spells spread throughout the game would help. Death Fog might serve Slayer Irenicus as well, since he should be immune to it with his protection from acid up and uses pretty much only gated summons anyways. He might even combine it in a trigger with malison and web (or grease, chaos, something like that) to harrass the party, maybe even trapping some to allow him to easily finish them off.

His summoned fiends were a mere annoyance, maybe something like the fire-storm casting balor from the underdark would fit here ?

 

Tree of Life Irenicus only took 2 tries also. I think he had a good time stop going on in the first with something like a Malison – Wilting – Dragon’s Breath combo. I had to do him a couple more times trying to figure out how exactly the modified Breach worked and because my hell trials were bugged. I noticed that he was usually starting out pretty well with time stop, improved alacrity and some powerful ae spells but all too soon after that spent most of his time running away from the party firing only random magic missiles at my casters. In general throughout my game casters tended to spend a bit too much time stupidly running around. Running away from area effect (as long as they aren’t immune, in which case they should try to stay IN there), danger, or even to get better positioning (hard to script I imagine) is all fine, but when casters don’t even make use of the 1-spell-per-round mechanic anymore it tends to not work in their favor. It also gets really annoying with the way the game engine handles melees trying to attack a moving target.

 

Maybe it would have helped for him to always start out with an immunity abjuration-divination-mislead combo and try some project images to preserve his high level spells.

He didn’t use much in the way of mid-level spells either - Death Fog, Cloudkill, coupled with immunity evocation if need be. Any form of continuous ae to harrass the party with would have helped, my casters were practically free to take down his spell protections at their leisure. The ability to cast Anti-Magic through improved invis really played into my hand there also, though missing it when casters waltz around the area is kinda annoying. It’s fine as long as you wait for them to cast spells themselves though, a mechanic I actually kinda enjoyed. It’s a change from the cheesyness that was immune div+abj with improved invis anyways.

Speaking about invisibility, I would have liked to see him make more use of improved invis type spells to protect himself from Breach and trying to dispel True Sight whenever possible. He hardly used any dispel in general and it was very predictable, he should make more use of it.

His use of pets was also questionable, he only rarely summoned the planetar in my tries, he should prioritize it more I think. The rest of the summons like demons/swords/djnni are usually not much of a problem at this point in the game anymore, maybe sticking to a simulacrum (which needs to protect itself better) would serve him better.

At last, as I mentioned before, some more use of Spell Sequencers, even the cheesy ones this time. It’s supposed to be a tough fight after all.

 

Anyways, that’s just some of my ideas, I could go on talking about things like that forever but I realize there’s only so much detail a lone person like yourself can get into with a complex mod like that and I think you have done a very fine job overall. It’s much more enjoyable and challenging than the original game and it’s definitely not as cheesy and rulebreaking as tactics is. Keep up the good work, and if you want any more feedback on some specific aspects of the game, feel free to ask. I also have some more thoughts I might add in a while.

[DavidW]

Great: that's extremely interesting and useful.

 

I should say a bit about how the mod works "under the hood": a great deal of it is random. In particular, I don't have any standardised grid of who has which High-Level Abilities and who has which sequencers. If you reloaded and refought the Yuan-Ti, they probably wouldn't be using that particular sequencer. Similarly, if you reinstalled the mod, you'd probably find Irenicus using different spells. (The HLA component randomly gives people Wish/Improved Alacrity/Summon Dark Planetar/Dragon's Breath). So it's basically coincidence that you ran into that 3x Skull Trap when you did. It's probably the most lethal sequencer at low level; on the other hand, at higher levels it's relatively easily blocked (Pro/Magic Energy, anyone?) I'm partly motivated by laziness (I can't be bothered to work out the optimal configurations independently for every creature), partly by the desire to aid replayability and block metagaming, partly because I'd like to play the game myself and don't want to spoil too much!,

 

If your summons are being prioritised for Dragon's Breath, that could be a glitch. Certainly they should be Death Spelled first. It's possible that the wizard(s) in question had run out of it, I guess. Unfortunately there isn't really a viable way to get wizards to use lowish level spells against lone summons, so it's a difficult balance to get right. I'll have another look at it sometime.

 

I take your point about the painfulness of those sequencers, but in general I've tried to just do the best that's possible within the game's rules, which includes lethal sequencers if they're available. I've avoided blatant cheese (I considered and rejected the 3x Project Image contingency trick!) but in general I've used the existing game resources as best I can. 15th level wizards can cast Spell Sequencer and Skull Trap, so why wouldn't they combine them?

 

As for people running around: it's not intended to break the one-spell-per-round rule. If you think they're underusing spells, though, I'll look at it. (The expected behaviour for someone like tree-of-life Irenicus is: cast spell, run for rest of round, cast spell again as soon as possible.)

 

I'll say again: I hugely appreciate this sort of feedback. Thanks, and I'm glad you're enjoying the mod. Are you doing ToB, and if so, do you have Ascension installed?

 

 

 

Alright, here’s some random feedback for ya :

 

I ran into a couple of Yuan-ti Mages relatively early in the game (think it was either Arnise Keep or Rescuing Haer’dalis) who cast Spell Sequencers with 3xSkull Trap. For me that was way overkill and more bothersome than fun. Sure it’s legitimate and not really such a high level use of spells (although I don’t think Yuan-ti had access to level 7 spells in the original game, did they?), but it’s still cheesy.

It’s basically an uninterruptable instant-cast with no way to anticipate it’s coming, doing 36d6 (even with your changes) on a failed save which is way more than any single spell of any level does. I would have even preferred them casting dragon’s breath instead, for while that has a very short cast time, there’s at least a chance of interrupting it and protection from fire is much easier to come by than from magic at that point in the game (lvl3 vs lvl6 mage spell and available priest buffs plus a hoard of fire resistance gear). Not to mention that they cast Remove Magic also. Minor Globes of Invulnerability or Spell Immunity would have worked, but they’re self only and my casters really didn’t have anything to kill the Yuan-ti with at that point, thanks to their own Spell Protections and even Magic Resistance.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting they should be able to cast Dragon's Breath here, just trying to show the absurd imbalance comparing the two.

 

Ironically, I have played through the whole of Shadows of Amn by now and never saw that 3xSkull Trap Sequencer again, not by any of the high level spellcasters like liches (I left out Kangaxx and his guardians though) or even Irenicus. In those fights it would have made some sense at least, since they are supposed to be the most challenging encounters and are usually one guy vs my whole group whereas Yuan-ti typically come in packs with sometimes even several casters at once.

I generally dislike 3x anything Spell Sequencers (Skull Trap, Flame Arrows, 3x Horrid Wilting Chain Contingency, etc.) and refrain from using them. I hoped enemies would not use them either since they are much too powerful for their intended level (again with a couple of exceptions like Irenicus where it would make some sense in the name of challenge)

 

Generally, I found the fights with high level spellcasters later in the game much easier than the low level stuff at the start. Maybe it has something to do with me adjusting to the way mages work in your mod or my party finally starting to come into it’s own (quite a bit of multiclassing going on there), I don’t know. It took me only 2 tries to kill Irenicus in Hell without any casualties though and that can’t be a good sign given that it was my first go at it. I think I would have beat it the first time if I had realized the Tree of Life berries aren’t an instant munch like potions are . My party experience shouldn’t be anything out of the norm either, ranging from ~2.6million on imoen to ~2.8 on my paladin.

I can’t comment much on the fight since I really only did it those two times.

His use of wish->time stop->melee someone to death was pretty decent but he was too easily distracted by summons standing in his way. After that he pretty much degenerated into very predictable melee engagement. I can’t really remember the original Hell Irenicus since it’s been such a long time that I played him so I can’t tell how much harder it actually is.

In general I found your casters to use odd tactics versus summons (Shangalar even used a Dragon’s Breath on a lone Aerial Servant, what did he do, steal his cookies ?) Maybe a couple more Death Spells spread throughout the game would help. Death Fog might serve Slayer Irenicus as well, since he should be immune to it with his protection from acid up and uses pretty much only gated summons anyways. He might even combine it in a trigger with malison and web (or grease, chaos, something like that) to harrass the party, maybe even trapping some to allow him to easily finish them off.

His summoned fiends were a mere annoyance, maybe something like the fire-storm casting balor from the underdark would fit here ?

 

Tree of Life Irenicus only took 2 tries also. I think he had a good time stop going on in the first with something like a Malison – Wilting – Dragon’s Breath combo. I had to do him a couple more times trying to figure out how exactly the modified Breach worked and because my hell trials were bugged. I noticed that he was usually starting out pretty well with time stop, improved alacrity and some powerful ae spells but all too soon after that spent most of his time running away from the party firing only random magic missiles at my casters. In general throughout my game casters tended to spend a bit too much time stupidly running around. Running away from area effect (as long as they aren’t immune, in which case they should try to stay IN there), danger, or even to get better positioning (hard to script I imagine) is all fine, but when casters don’t even make use of the 1-spell-per-round mechanic anymore it tends to not work in their favor. It also gets really annoying with the way the game engine handles melees trying to attack a moving target.

 

Maybe it would have helped for him to always start out with an immunity abjuration-divination-mislead combo and try some project images to preserve his high level spells.

He didn’t use much in the way of mid-level spells either - Death Fog, Cloudkill, coupled with immunity evocation if need be. Any form of continuous ae to harrass the party with would have helped, my casters were practically free to take down his spell protections at their leisure. The ability to cast Anti-Magic through improved invis really played into my hand there also, though missing it when casters waltz around the area is kinda annoying. It’s fine as long as you wait for them to cast spells themselves though, a mechanic I actually kinda enjoyed. It’s a change from the cheesyness that was immune div+abj with improved invis anyways.

Speaking about invisibility, I would have liked to see him make more use of improved invis type spells to protect himself from Breach and trying to dispel True Sight whenever possible. He hardly used any dispel in general and it was very predictable, he should make more use of it.

His use of pets was also questionable, he only rarely summoned the planetar in my tries, he should prioritize it more I think. The rest of the summons like demons/swords/djnni are usually not much of a problem at this point in the game anymore, maybe sticking to a simulacrum (which needs to protect itself better) would serve him better.

At last, as I mentioned before, some more use of Spell Sequencers, even the cheesy ones this time. It’s supposed to be a tough fight after all.

 

Anyways, that’s just some of my ideas, I could go on talking about things like that forever but I realize there’s only so much detail a lone person like yourself can get into with a complex mod like that and I think you have done a very fine job overall. It’s much more enjoyable and challenging than the original game and it’s definitely not as cheesy and rulebreaking as tactics is. Keep up the good work, and if you want any more feedback on some specific aspects of the game, feel free to ask. I also have some more thoughts I might add in a while.

[Guest Kobold]

Great: that's extremely interesting and useful.

I should say a bit about how the mod works "under the hood": a great deal of it is random. In particular, I don't have any standardised grid of who has which High-Level Abilities and who has which sequencers. If you reloaded and refought the Yuan-Ti, they probably wouldn't be using that particular sequencer. Similarly, if you reinstalled the mod, you'd probably find Irenicus using different spells. (The HLA component randomly gives people Wish/Improved Alacrity/Summon Dark Planetar/Dragon's Breath). So it's basically coincidence that you ran into that 3x Skull Trap when you did. It's probably the most lethal sequencer at low level; on the other hand, at higher levels it's relatively easily blocked (Pro/Magic Energy, anyone?) I'm partly motivated by laziness (I can't be bothered to work out the optimal configurations independently for every creature), partly by the desire to aid replayability and block metagaming, partly because I'd like to play the game myself and don't want to spoil too much!,

Heh, that's a fine way of going about designing a mod I guess . But while I agree that randomness adds much in the way of replayability to it, it makes it also very hard to balance out if you just use one script to randomize every caster in the game. It's also hard to get the most challenging encounters in the game to be as difficult as they should be in a consistent way.

It isn't logical to me how a lowly Yuan-ti should use better spell combinations than a lich or even Irenicus, even though it might not be happening every game.

Then again that's a design decision you have to make and there isn't really a right or wrong to it.

 

Personally I would still prefer it if you could maybe separate the scripts to some extent, maybe according to the casters intelligence (e.g. a relatively low intelligence yuan-ti would be restricted to a set of weaker combinations, whereas a lich would only choose from the better options). That way, you wouldn't have to change it for every single creature, but rather for certain "sets". I don't know how realistically caster stats are spread out in the game though, so it might not work on that.

It's really hard to talk about this without in-depth knowledge about IE scripting though, which I personally don't have. It might not be possible to do that easily after all.

 

If your summons are being prioritised for Dragon's Breath, that could be a glitch. Certainly they should be Death Spelled first. It's possible that the wizard(s) in question had run out of it, I guess. Unfortunately there isn't really a viable way to get wizards to use lowish level spells against lone summons, so it's a difficult balance to get right. I'll have another look at it sometime.

I don't think he used any death spell before that so he couldn't have run out of it. Maybe that has something to do with the random spell choices that come with each install that you mentioned ? Again, that would be a reason to optimize it for certain groups of casters imo.

There were some more odd occurrences of something like this as I went through the game. For instance, a drow priestess would cast Unholy Blight on my Fire Elemental, which doesn't even do anything to it. She actually killed my character with that who was standing stunned and invis in range of the spell, but I'm not really sure that your script is THAT smart ! (if it is, kudos to you )

 

 

I take your point about the painfulness of those sequencers, but in general I've tried to just do the best that's possible within the game's rules, which includes lethal sequencers if they're available. I've avoided blatant cheese (I considered and rejected the 3x Project Image contingency trick!) but in general I've used the existing game resources as best I can. 15th level wizards can cast Spell Sequencer and Skull Trap, so why wouldn't they combine them?

Perfectly fine if you design it that way, it's a matter of personal opinion really. I find them imbalanced for their spell-level, so I don't use them. I always thought the idea behind sequencers was to combine several spell effects into one and prefer to use them that way, which is much more interesting to me anyways.

 

As for people running around: it's not intended to break the one-spell-per-round rule. If you think they're underusing spells, though, I'll look at it. (The expected behaviour for someone like tree-of-life Irenicus is: cast spell, run for rest of round, cast spell again as soon as possible.)

Well I didn't clock it, but I'm pretty sure that he didn't make the most out of it. Also, I just did the 1-st level Watcher's Keep encounter where the mage started with a time stop and a few spells normally, then suddenly just ran off into another room. When she came back several rounds later I had finished off most of her group allowing me to easily focus on her. It practically made the fight a whole lot easier for me, and there wasn't even anyone coming after her when she went on her random stroll.

 

I'll say again: I hugely appreciate this sort of feedback. Thanks, and I'm glad you're enjoying the mod. Are you doing ToB, and if so, do you have Ascension installed?

Yes to both, I just started with Watcher's Keep. I have the option installed which allows me to do it inbetween SoA and ToB, I don't know whether I will finish it completely before starting ToB yet, though.

I might aswell mention two bugs that probably have to do with that part of the mod :

- When my party was first transferred to Watcher's Keep after the cutscene with Ellesime and the elves there was a short time where the area screen went black. I didn't know whether I just wasn't focused on the part of the map where my party stands so I kept repeatedly pressing 1 to center it on my character. When I saw my party standing before Watcher's Keep a few seconds later I found out that my main char hadn't actually been transferred with them. Focusing on him revealed that he was still in that elven throne room with Ellesime. I could actually leave it and travel through the Elven city again, which was kinda cool, but it ruined the game for me since there was no way that I could find to get my group back together. Kinda annoying as well since you have to do the whole Irenicus fight in hell over again.

The next time I didn't press any keys after the cutscene and my party was transferred fine. I don't know if pressing the key actually had anything to do with it, but I wasn't feeling like doing the whole fight a 3rd time just to find out

 

-When first talking to the Watcher guy who gives you the quest, it would kick me out of the dialogue right in the middle of it. Actually happened twice, in the dialogue below and on top of the keep. I could still talk to them again and get inside the Keep, just the rest of the dialogue was missing, so not a game-breaking bug there.

I actually reloaded a game in SoA and went to Watcher's Keep there to find out the rest of the story (it's been a while). It worked and I found out that the kick out of the dialogue happened every time someone else in my party was trying to add in to the conversation (first anomen below the keep, then haer'dalis on top of it)

Again, not a big issue, just thought I'd mention it.

[Guest Kobold]

Just a little update on the bug where it kept kicking me out of dialogue :

Just found the imp on the 2nd floor of Watcher's Keep, and it happened again. Right on the middle of conversation it kicked me out when the button at the bottom showed as "continue". This time the imp actually went hostile though.

On a reload, I kicked all of my party members out of the group before talking to him and that allowed me to finish the conversation normally, with the imp leaving at the end like he's supposed to.

I'm pondering whether I should maybe just start ToB over and skip Watcher's Keep at least until I would normally be allowed to go there. I guess so far I could still continue, but I don't want to get stuck because of some missing dialogue half way down there. I'll think about it and continue tomorrow, maybe there's even some solution to it without having to start over ? Though it was just one level really, so not a big deal.

[DavidW]

I'll test the WK thing when I have a chance. It doesn't sound like an SCS bug but it could be...

 

One more comment on the sequencers (etc.): part of the reason it's random is that I don't really think there is a unique "best" combination. Skull Trap x3 is pretty lethal, sure, but Flame Arrow x3 does more damage, Remove Magic x2 / Greater Malison is a pretty effective way of dropping enemy defences, Fire Shield / Improved Invisibility / Stoneskin is a good fast way to renew your own defences, etc. Which one is best in a given situation is going to depend quite sensitively on the situation.

[aVENGER_(RR)]

I'll test the WK thing when I have a chance. It doesn't sound like an SCS bug but it could be...

 

Just a hunch, but that might be happening due to a mismatch between the NPC banter file names in SoA and ToB. A while ago, I found out that the ToB version of a NPC will not properly display his SoA banters when I was testing the interjections for my CoC encounter.

 

I'm not exactly sure when the NPC dialogues get converted into ToB format, but it might be somewhere between the final battle in hell and the first cutscene in ToB.