Request for content feedback

[DavidW]

I'd be interested to hear from anyone who's trying SCSII as to how they're finding it - I gather from various bug requests, people's WEIDU logs, etc. that people are trying it, but I haven't heard much about what it's like. So if you've tried it and have got views - positive or otherwise - I'd be keen to hear them.

 

 

(EDIT 18th May 2008: I'm locking the thread now because it's morphed into a general-purpose discussion and bug-report thread and I'd rather that people started new threads for new topics. I do still welcome content feedback though.)

[dizzyorange]

I'd be interested to hear from anyone who's trying SCSII as to how they're finding it - I gather from various bug requests, people's WEIDU logs, etc. that people are trying it, but I haven't heard much about what it's like. So if you've tried it and have got views - positive or otherwise - I'd be keen to hear them.

 

David you know from previous posts that I'm really enjoying SCS II (and SCS I as well). If there's one area that could be improved, it would be increase the diversity of enemy AI. Mage-type enemies in the game tend to be a little too similar to one another, especially when they might use magic quite differently due to their varying backgrounds.

 

I have a suggestion for implementing this. Would it be possible to assign a spell school (or two) to some of the enemy mages in the game? It might not require brand new scripts. Is it possible to, with a limited amount of effort, designate certain mages as Necromancers, or Illusionists etc.. and assign, say, 80% of their memorized spells as belonging to that school? They could then use the same general mage AI script (which is quite good) which uses those spells anyway. This will probably weaken some of the mages, so maybe a small bump in levels would be necessary.

 

Just a suggestion for increased enemy diversity. I know sequencers and such are already random, which is a fun feature. Clearly, I'm speaking without an in-depth knowledge of your code. If this kind of feature would require significant time to implement, or goes against your concept of whole-ism for the mod, then by all means disregard it.

[Demivrgvs]

SCS II simply offers the best AI experience for BG.

 

Tactics was too cheesy (even if i enjoyed it a lot because at that time vanilla game offered a lame AI experience) and IA is extremely tought but they change the game atmosphere too much, expecially the latter. I prefer to RP rather than hack and slash, not having to rely on metagaming to win every single encounter, not being restricted to few spells and tactics because all the others are useless, and so on... I think SCS II offers a level of difficulty between Tactics and IA (probably the hardest) but without resorting to any cheese and without making every foe a lvl 25 fighter/mage with a regeneration rate of 1hp per second. SCS II offers the same "feel"of the vanilla BG and while playing it you could just start thinking you are playing the original one but with a truly great AI. I would give same appreciations to Quest Pack (that said QP is much easier) and, to a minor degree, to Rogue Rebalancing (i don't have tried yet the latest version but my only complain was that every single thief was a Kensai-Thief with perfect stats --- anyway RB makes fighting your way through the Shadow Thieves' Guild truly awesome, and the Cyric encounter is top notch). I actually think tha SCS II, QP, RB integrate one another perfectly and if anyone is searching for a good challenge in Chateau Irenicus too i would suggest Slightly Improved Iliych (but i don't have tested its compatibility with SCS II).

 

Other pros are components like remove unrealistical ammunition (no more 40 fire arrows in every room near a troll), add potions to NPCs (a good way to improve enemies) and, because of i like RP, incresing the gold required to help imoen is a fine solution for not having to rush to spellhold too soon.

 

One way of improving this already flawless mod could be something like dizzyorange suggested. It probably is time consuming but many encounters could be much more fun if given proper attentions. Foes like Lavok, Faldorn, Irenicus and even "lesser" mages/priests (as well as some parties like Mencar Pubblecrusher's one) could benefit from having a personal script rather than sharing the same one. Encounters too could benefit from diversity...an improved Bodhi Guild for example (it's extremely easy wiping it out if you have someone immune to lvl drain and Bodhi deserves to be more powerful herself, maybe with some additional abilities too).

 

That said good work. I can't play BG anymore without SCS installed and i hope you'll improve it even further in the future.

[Cashews]

One way of improving this already flawless mod could be something like dizzyorange suggested. It probably is time consuming but many encounters could be much more fun if given proper attentions. Foes like Lavok, Faldorn, Irenicus and even "lesser" mages/priests (as well as some parties like Mencar Pubblecrusher's one) could benefit from having a personal script rather than sharing the same one.

 

Although it's always possible to improve on existing scripts, considering the depth of what has already been achieved, I think that improving on existing material is the next logical step. This is basically what some other mods, like Slightly Improved Ilyich or Improved Battles, are doing: taking existing areas and encounters and fleshing them out with unique elements.

[Guest erik]

I'm impressed. The shadow thief battlemage in Chateau Irenicus actually felt like a rather scary mage this time, using quite legal means. Even though his friends were chunked by the vampire.

 

Scared away Immy for good, and gave everyone except Minsc quite the beating. Invisibility+mirror image in a sequencer, fun with confusion, horror and minute meteors.

 

[eddy]

I'd be interested to hear from anyone who's trying SCSII as to how they're finding it - I gather from various bug requests, people's WEIDU logs, etc. that people are trying it, but I haven't heard much about what it's like. So if you've tried it and have got views - positive or otherwise - I'd be keen to hear them.

I'm currently playing SCSII for the first time and enjoy it pretty much.

The improved AI really adds much to the game without making the game plain unfair (like some Tactics components do).

SCSII also forced me to learn how to put most of the spells to good use...before playing SCSII I only knew about 10% of the spells in the game.

 

The only thing that's bit too cheesy in my opinion was the Irenicus battle with improved fiends and improved spellcasters.

Irenicus itself wouldn't be too bad but it's frustrating when the improved Balors keep killing the party permanently with their one-hit-death ability and it's a bit frustrating if Irenicus chops three party members into pieces during his time stop.

In the end I only managed to do this fight by using some cheesy time stop combination (which wouldn't be possible without a top notch mage in the party).

Apart from that the Irenicus battle crashes pretty often. But this could also be caused some other mod.

 

Apart from that SCSII is a really great experience.

[cemeth]

I'm currently playing a BGT game with SCS and SCS II.

I'm still in the BG1 part of the game, so I haven't seen that much SCS II specific stuff yet, but what I've seen was really great and worked without problems.

 

There was one small difficulty issue though, which probably only happens in the BG1 part of a BGT game (because of low-level party compared to BG2): Kirinhale (the succubus in Durlag's tower) was extremely hard to kill, because of the component which gives succubi endless innate abilities.

She healed herself much faster than I could cause damage, and there's no limit to her healing. It took probably 10 to 15 minutes, with support from wands of monster summoning, tons of buffs and 2 reloads.

[DavidW]

I'm currently playing a BGT game with SCS and SCS II.

I'm still in the BG1 part of the game, so I haven't seen that much SCS II specific stuff yet, but what I've seen was really great and worked without problems.

 

There was one small difficulty issue though, which probably only happens in the BG1 part of a BGT game (because of low-level party compared to BG2): Kirinhale (the succubus in Durlag's tower) was extremely hard to kill, because of the component which gives succubi endless innate abilities.

She healed herself much faster than I could cause damage, and there's no limit to her healing. It took probably 10 to 15 minutes, with support from wands of monster summoning, tons of buffs and 2 reloads.

 

Interesting. I don't know what's going on there, because SCS I doesn't affect Kirinhale. Possibly BGT gives her some sort of Succubus script?

[cemeth]

SCS II does, that's why I posted it here.

It's because of the "Improved fiends" component. From the readme:

 

Succubi (cast at 12th level):

* Minor Spell Turning, once per day

* Cure Critical Wounds (self only),Teleport without Error and become ethereal, at will

* Charm person, at will

 

This was exactly what she did all the time.

Every 2 rounds or so she became ethereal, which was annoying, and when she reappeared she was "Uninjured" again.

So the time window in which you could damage her was really short, and she even healed herself during that time. And magic was pretty much useless.

 

Quite a hard fight for a mere 3000 exp.

It's not impossible though, although it could be for a solo run.

[DavidW]

Cool... well, if it's "tough, but not impossible" I'll probably leave it that way!

 

(I think what must have happened is that BGT changes Kirinhale to use the generic succubus script, which SCS II then upgrades.)

[monster]

Great Mod so far, i finished SoA, and i enjoyed it. There are many good things to say about it, little bad ones, and many more things which could be improved or "modded".

How I see it, this mod could very much compete with Improved Anvil, and not only that but it could be even more exciting, challenging and complex. It has that potential, it would involve a lot of work & testing, but it would certainly be worthed, and i think there are many players out there who would like to see a transcendence from IA & SCSII

[melkor_morgoth75]

Great Mod so far, i finished SoA, and i enjoyed it. There are many good things to say about it, little bad ones, and many more things which could be improved or "modded".

How I see it, this mod could very much compete with Improved Anvil, and not only that but it could be even more exciting, challenging and complex. It has that potential, it would involve a lot of work & testing, but it would certainly be worthed, and i think there are many players out there who would like to see a transcendence from IA & SCSII

 

That's impossible unfortunately as per IA author's wishes,

 

mm75

[Demivrgvs]

Actually i would much prefer Quest Pack author to work with DavidW.

Improved Anvil has a totally different concept.

[underdog]

Couple of things, with the goodberries part, PC and sometimes another NPC will only use the highest level of berries once they start becoming available, the others will use whatever is given to them.

 

Battles are tougher, took 2 tries to kill the lich in the UD, then PC was the only one surviving, he cast some starting spell triggers, and an ADHW, Keldorn and 3 mages, cast some protection removing spells, and a breach but no one could hit him weapon ineffective (PfMW?), then he cast a TS, beat Aerie several times, cast some protectoin removing spells, beat Aerie, cast ADHW, beat Aerie, cast Sunfire? beat Aerie, cast contigency?, beat Aerie, Summon Fiend, beat Aerie, TS ends I get ~ 3 pages of dialogs of lich damages Aerie and she dies, so remaining 2 mages, remove protections try breaching and still no effect, (PfMW still?). Another TS , another AdHW, beat PC, trigger protections back up, beat PC, remove magic, beat PC, fireball, sunfire? beat PC, TS ends, another mage down, still cant hit him, carsomyr won't remove anything, Keldorns 18thx2 level dispel don't do any good, truesight ain't working either.

Another TS, remove magic, beat Jaheira, Greater Malison, beat Keldorn, AdHW, (how many does he Have?) Beat Keldorn, summon fiend, (another one?) beat Jaheira, TS ends, another mage dead, jaheira dead, keldorn took out a Glabrezu, PC just beat with MoD, (no effect) anothe spell and Keldorn is down, so I just stood there beating with MoD, (PfMW don't last forever), ate whatever he threw at me finally hit with MoD when it ran out, several rounds later, PC drank almost 30 of the 17 point healing potions, and used about 30+ on the rest of the party through out the battle mostly with keldorn.

In Suldenessler now, don't even get me started on those battles, lose 2-3 per battle, have to teleport back to planar sphere after each battle to rest, PC has one raise dead, Keldorn has upgraded paladin bracers, and Aerie has 2 raise dead and still burning out rod of ressurection to bring them all back,

those Rakashasa's are even worse.

[DavidW]

Couple of things, with the goodberries part, PC and sometimes another NPC will only use the highest level of berries once they start becoming available, the others will use whatever is given to them.

 

Battles are tougher, took 2 tries to kill the lich in the UD, then PC was the only one surviving, he cast some starting spell triggers, and an ADHW, Keldorn and 3 mages, cast some protection removing spells, and a breach but no one could hit him weapon ineffective (PfMW?), then he cast a TS, beat Aerie several times, cast some protectoin removing spells, beat Aerie, cast ADHW, beat Aerie, cast Sunfire? beat Aerie, cast contigency?, beat Aerie, Summon Fiend, beat Aerie, TS ends I get ~ 3 pages of dialogs of lich damages Aerie and she dies, so remaining 2 mages, remove protections try breaching and still no effect, (PfMW still?). Another TS , another AdHW, beat PC, trigger protections back up, beat PC, remove magic, beat PC, fireball, sunfire? beat PC, TS ends, another mage down, still cant hit him, carsomyr won't remove anything, Keldorns 18thx2 level dispel don't do any good, truesight ain't working either.

Another TS, remove magic, beat Jaheira, Greater Malison, beat Keldorn, AdHW, (how many does he Have?) Beat Keldorn, summon fiend, (another one?) beat Jaheira, TS ends, another mage dead, jaheira dead, keldorn took out a Glabrezu, PC just beat with MoD, (no effect) anothe spell and Keldorn is down, so I just stood there beating with MoD, (PfMW don't last forever), ate whatever he threw at me finally hit with MoD when it ran out, several rounds later, PC drank almost 30 of the 17 point healing potions, and used about 30+ on the rest of the party through out the battle mostly with keldorn.

In Suldenessler now, don't even get me started on those battles, lose 2-3 per battle, have to teleport back to planar sphere after each battle to rest, PC has one raise dead, Keldorn has upgraded paladin bracers, and Aerie has 2 raise dead and still burning out rod of ressurection to bring them all back,

those Rakashasa's are even worse.

 

... so, is that good or bad?