Request for content feedback

[DavidW]

So i think this optional component, if introduced, should be restricted to affect a limited certain characters,

Perfectly sensible, but...

and David would have to figure and decide which ones.

... there is not the slightest chance this is going to happen.

 

I'll make my usual compromise, though: I'll add a console option to turn off neutral prebuffing.

[Arkain]

Since a new version is going to be released soon I ought to ask my contentquestions now, right?

 

I think I ought to stop auto-granting fighter HLAs until ToB and WK; I'll add that for the next version. (I think the only reason I didn't bother originally was that there are so few high-level fighters in SoA - but you're right, there are some.) [...]

 

One question regarding this issue: will there be an additional component with an option like "grant HLAs to fighter types meeting the requirements" or is it totally omitted?

 

Good question. I coded it to be totally omitted but perhaps that was a mistake. (Though v5 is with Cam now so it's too late to fix it for this version). Again, since there are only a very few eligible fighters in SoA and most of them are eligible more-or-less by mistake, I'm not that worried.

 

[...]

 

I'm, again, curious about it. Will there be a component for the few high level fighters in SoA? Given that I never counted them it may not be worth it, though.

 

(Warning, slight spoiler ahead )

 

Another issue I thought about is the removal of Arrows of Dispelling (from stores that is, but I don't remember ever finding a lot of these in the game...). My opinion concerning this matter is that it's more likely an item tweak like "Remove the Shield of Balduran from the game" rather than "Improved minor encounters". What do you think?

[DavidW]

Since a new version is going to be released soon I ought to ask my contentquestions now, right?

 

I think I ought to stop auto-granting fighter HLAs until ToB and WK; I'll add that for the next version. (I think the only reason I didn't bother originally was that there are so few high-level fighters in SoA - but you're right, there are some.) [...]

 

One question regarding this issue: will there be an additional component with an option like "grant HLAs to fighter types meeting the requirements" or is it totally omitted?

 

Good question. I coded it to be totally omitted but perhaps that was a mistake. (Though v5 is with Cam now so it's too late to fix it for this version). Again, since there are only a very few eligible fighters in SoA and most of them are eligible more-or-less by mistake, I'm not that worried.

 

[...]

 

I'm, again, curious about it. Will there be a component for the few high level fighters in SoA? Given that I never counted them it may not be worth it, though.

 

(Warning, slight spoiler ahead )

 

Another issue I thought about is the removal of Arrows of Dispelling (from stores that is, but I don't remember ever finding a lot of these in the game...). My opinion concerning this matter is that it's more likely an item tweak like "Remove the Shield of Balduran from the game" rather than "Improved minor encounters". What do you think?

 

Sorry, you're just too late; v6 is officially closed to new content

[Arkain]

I see.

 

...

 

Any plans for v7?

[Guest AlanC9]

For what it's worth, on my own playthrough of SCSII so far, I took them fine (after one reload when I was caught off-guard). The party was Minsc, Jaheira, Aerie, Nalia, Anomen and an Undead Hunter; they took casualties, as I recall, but they won.

 

Well, if I absolutely had to ride out a Chaos spell, this is the party I'd want to do it with. You've got three people who can cast CC (assuming Aerie's levelled already) and Minsc can berserk.

 

And like I said before, it's not that the random fights are completely unbeatable, it's that they're about as tough as the boss fights. This just feels wrong to me.

 

Spaking of boss fights, slightly improved Faldorn had slightly bizarre behavior. Using Jaheira, I went with True Seeing on the first round, followed that up with insects to disrupt Faldorn's casting, and then summoned a fire elemental to beat her to death. When the insects hit Faldorn, she shifted to spider form. But then she kept shifting to spider form. Every segment. It gunked up my machine completely; the fight took something over fifteen minutes to resolve. And of course, Faldorn had no chance since she wasn't even trying to attack.

[DavidW]

For what it's worth, on my own playthrough of SCSII so far, I took them fine (after one reload when I was caught off-guard). The party was Minsc, Jaheira, Aerie, Nalia, Anomen and an Undead Hunter; they took casualties, as I recall, but they won.

 

Well, if I absolutely had to ride out a Chaos spell, this is the party I'd want to do it with. You've got three people who can cast CC (assuming Aerie's levelled already)

No.

 

and Minsc can berserk.

 

I've never got the hang of using it properly, actually!

And like I said before, it's not that the random fights are completely unbeatable, it's that they're about as tough as the boss fights. This just feels wrong to me.

 

Spaking of boss fights, slightly improved Faldorn had slightly bizarre behavior. Using Jaheira, I went with True Seeing on the first round, followed that up with insects to disrupt Faldorn's casting, and then summoned a fire elemental to beat her to death. When the insects hit Faldorn, she shifted to spider form. But then she kept shifting to spider form. Every segment. It gunked up my machine completely; the fight took something over fifteen minutes to resolve. And of course, Faldorn had no chance since she wasn't even trying to attack.

Bug; thanks. Snuck in just in time to fix in v6.

[Guest Guest]

These random encounters, do they take place only in chapter 2? If so, I suppose I could use the console command to turn pre-buffing off until that chapter is over.

 

And DavidW, is there any chance that you (or anyone else for that matter) could write up a strategy guide for fighting spellcasters e.g. what spells should I be using in these battles? As someone who's new to the game, I'm a little overwhelmed by the spell options available, and really have no idea what to cast and when.

[DavidW]

These random encounters, do they take place only in chapter 2?

No, but I doubt they'll be much of a challenge after chapter 2.

 

If so, I suppose I could use the console command to turn pre-buffing off until that chapter is over.

 

Or just before you make a wilderness journey. If there are a significant number of requests I'll build something more convenient in, but not for v6.

 

And DavidW, is there any chance that you (or anyone else for that matter) could write up a strategy guide for fighting spellcasters e.g. what spells should I be using in these battles? As someone who's new to the game, I'm a little overwhelmed by the spell options available, and really have no idea what to cast and when.

 

I suspect it's better if I leave someone else to do it. But the basic rules (which are not quite the same as vanilla BG2) for attacking mages' defences are:

 

(i) Breach will bring down an enemy's magic protections (and it works on liches and rakshasas, even though they're normally immune to L5 spells), but it can only be cast on an opponent who is (a) not protected by Spell Turning or Spell Deflection; (b) not protected by Spell Immunity: Abjuration; © not improved invisible. So to use Breach you'll need to bring down your enemy's defences.

 

(ii) Invisibility can be lowered by divination spells like Detect Invisible and Truesight. These won't work against a wizard protected by Spell Immunity: Divination. Glitterdust will work (it's not Divination), but it won't penetrate a Globe of Invulnerability.

 

(iii) Magical defences like Globe of Invulnerability and Spell Turning can be lowered by anti-magic spells like Secret Word and Ruby Ray of Reversal. These are area effect spells and so can be cast through invisibility; for the same reason, though, it's possible to miss with them. (Starting the spell after the bad guy has started casting is one possibility.) Note that Secret Word won't penetrate a Globe of Invulnerability, and Spell Thrust won't penetrate even a Minor Globe of Invulnerability. Even though the anti-magic spells are mostly Abjuration, they will work on an enemy who is protected by Spell Immunity: Abjuration.

 

(iv) Anti-magic spells lower your enemies' defences in decreasing order of power.

 

(v) Magic items and scrolls can be used to target creatures who are improved invisible. Scrolls of Breach or Wands of Striking can be good ways to shortcut the long slog through an enemy's defences.

 

(vi) Against human mages, if you haven't got time to work through their defences then you can just use nonmagical weapons (if they're protected from magic weapons). But creatures like vampires and liches are immune to nonmagic weapons too, so you have to bring down (or wait out) their defences.

[the bigg]

If you're high-level, using Spell Strike + True Sight + Breach is an instant win. I choose SS as my first ninth level spell on a sorceror, then, on meeting a mage, Sorceror casts SS and anybody (cleric, Druid, Mage...) casts TS; once both hit, a secondary mage casts Breach. Using Vecna and similar spell accelerating items is a bonus.

[Guest Guest]

Thanks for the replies, DavidW and the bigg.

 

Should I cast Breach on both arcane and divine spellcasters, or just arcane spellcasters?

 

the bigg, does it matter in which order you cast Spell Strike + True Sight/True Seeing? The main thing is that you cast Breach last, right?

 

DavidW, the next question I have to ask is this: how do I know what spell protections the enemy has up? If what I should cast at the enemy is dependent on what they themselves have cast, then identifying the spells is, I guess, the first step.

 

And I see no mention of Khelben's Warding Whip and Summon Nishruu/Summon Hakeashar, so am I right in thinking that I shouldn't be using those spells?

 

For what it's worth, I'll most likely be using Demivrgvs' Spell Revisions mod (although I believe he implies that it won't make a difference to any strategy when used with SCS II).

[the bigg]

Should I cast Breach on both arcane and divine spellcasters, or just arcane spellcasters?

Only arcane. Druids can cast Iron Skins and Clerics can cast Phisical Mirror, but neither is as annoying as PFMW is.

 

the bigg, does it matter in which order you cast Spell Strike + True Sight/True Seeing? The main thing is that you cast Breach last, right?

Generally yes, unless the enemy casts Spell Immunity:Divination. And, even in that case, TS is applied each round.

 

DavidW, the next question I have to ask is this: how do I know what spell protections the enemy has up? If what I should cast at the enemy is dependent on what they themselves have cast, then identifying the spells is, I guess, the first step.

By reading the battle text.

 

And I see no mention of Khelben's Warding Whip and Summon Nishruu/Summon Hakeashar, so am I right in thinking that I shouldn't be using those spells?

Enemy mages know how to deal with Summon Nishruu/Hakeashar, so they aren't as lethal as they were in the original game. Khelben's is nice, but IIRC it didn't work too well, so I just kept using SS (or Ruby Ray before having access to SS).

[DavidW]

Should I cast Breach on both arcane and divine spellcasters, or just arcane spellcasters?

Only arcane. Druids can cast Iron Skins and Clerics can cast Phisical Mirror, but neither is as annoying as PFMW is.

 

Though Breach will also bring down Blade Barrier, which can make meleeing a priest a bit less painful.

 

Some priests also use Shield of the Archons, which is their version of Spell Turning. Again, you have to drop it using an anti-magic spell before you can Breach them.

[Wisp]

Even though the anti-magic spells are mostly Abjuration, they will work on an enemy who is protected by Spell Immunity: Abjuration.

Hmm, I'm not sure I like that. But I guess I should see how it is before I start complaining.

Edit: Oh, question: Is SI: Abjuration completely ineffectual against anti-magic spells (in the sense that it can be removed by them) or does it merely not shield your other spells from anti-magic spells?

 

Anyways, while testing this I noticed that the mage I was fighting wasted a lot of Magic Missiles and a fair number of Minute Meteors while I still had Globe of Invulnerability up and then hit me with Pierce Magic to take out my Globe of Invulnerability.

(I'm not sure to which extent Minute Meteors are blocked by Globe of Invulnerability, but there was a Spell Ineffective for each thrown meteor.)

 

 

Anyways#2, when I was trying to sleep last night, it struck me; Kruin damn well cheats on his wild surges (I fought that battle a couple of days ago).

When he uses Nahal's he gets his intended spell as well as a couple of wild surge effects. Eg. Jaheira gets hit by a Horrid Wilting from Nahal's and also gets the Wild Surge: Gems effect that Kruin rolled.

I know the wild surge table is inherently disposed towards shafting the wild mage, but that's my feedback (me no likey the cheating).

[Amgot]

Khelben's is nice, but IIRC it didn't work too well, so I just kept using SS (or Ruby Ray before having access to SS).

 

IIRC, Khelben's Warding Whip was broken by the Oversight mod. I don't know if that issue has been resolved...

 

As a side note, I really love the "More consistent Breach spell" component of SCSII. Even if you find the vanilla game too hard, install at least this component. Without it, Spell Turning, Spell Trap, Ruby Ray of Reversal, Khelben's Warding Whip and so on are completely useless...

[Arkain]

Even though the anti-magic spells are mostly Abjuration, they will work on an enemy who is protected by Spell Immunity: Abjuration.

Hmm, I'm not sure I like that. But I guess I should see how it is before I start complaining.

Edit: Oh, question: Is SI: Abjuration completely ineffectual against anti-magic spells (in the sense that it can be removed by them) or does it merely not shield your other spells from anti-magic spells?

 

[...]

 

Well, its only effect at the moment is to protect you against some abjuration spells. Most notably Dispel/Remove Magic, Imprisonment and apparently Breach with SCSII installed (I like that). The problem with SI:Abjuration protecting against virtually every abjuration spell is something that could be witnessed often in IA 4.2. As I haven't really played IA 5 I can't comment on that. While IA also changes the spell so that you can only have one SI active at a time it gets kinda boring. Mage appears, buffs with either II+SI:Divination or SI:Abjuration and Spell Shield. The only anti-magic spell that works on such a protection is Ruby Ray of Reversal because it's an alteration spell. Therefore about every other anti-magic spell is obsolete, it won't work anyway when SI:Abjuration is up and when it works it's pointless because you can't target the enemy while invisible and have to use Remove Magic. When you are high level you have a good chance of dispelling the enemy's protection. Thus those fights become rather pointless and easy. If you aren't high level these fights are annyoing as hell. On the other hand your standard SI:Abjuration+SS enemy is boring as well. Ruby Ray of Reversal. Wait for Spell Shield to be dispelled (or rather pray - quite a buggy spell, sadly). Ruby Ray of Reversal. Wait for SI:Abjuration to be dispelled. Breach. If the enemy has other spell protections of a higher level (like Spell Turning or Globe of Invulnerability) up add one more RRoR for every spell protection above level 5.

One possible solution might be to make it so that SI:Abjuration protects against every abjuration spell up to a certain level. So for example Spell Strike and Pierce Shield can dispel it, while Pierce Magic can't. If it's changed into a literal immunity against every spell of that school you have the "exciting" scenario described above, which makes mages a no-brainer and mostly annoying rather than interesting. That's why I like SCS's "spell randomizer" - the fight is not the same when you reload which implies that you can't have your basic tactic for that specific encounter which will always work because you just know what the spellcaster will do.