Request for content feedback

[Wisp]

Pocketplane-challenge Irenicus summoned two Dark Planetars in the same time stop. Both showed up.

 

SCSII (including its Ascension component) is installed after Ascension. Only tweakpack is installed after SCSII.

[DavidW]

Pocketplane-challenge Irenicus summoned two Dark Planetars in the same time stop. Both showed up.

 

Should this bother me? Irenicus is casting Summon Dark Planetar vanilla-style - if the designers wanted to restrict it to one planetar at a time, that's their problem.

[aVENGER_(RR)]

Should this bother me? Irenicus is casting Summon Dark Planetar vanilla-style - if the designers wanted to restrict it to one planetar at a time, that's their problem.

 

The Deva/Planetar summoning cap only applies to party members, i.e. it has no effect on enemies. To circumvent this, you'd have to add a block to the spellcaster's script which would manually check for the presence of already summoned Devas/Planetars i.e. something like:

 

IF
!GlobalTimerNotExpired("RR#Cast","LOCALS")
HaveSpell(WIZARD_SUMMON_PLANATAR_EVIL)
!InMyArea([EVILCUTOFF.0.DARKPLANATAR])
THEN
RESPONSE #100
	SetGlobalTimer("RR#Cast","LOCALS",6)
	Spell(Myself,WIZARD_SUMMON_PLANATAR_EVIL)
END

 

BTW, note that InMyArea() respects visual range when used from a creature script i.e. if the (Dark)Planetar leaves the caster's line of sight then the caster will attempt to summon a new one.

[Bearwere]

Should this bother me? Irenicus is casting Summon Dark Planetar vanilla-style - if the designers wanted to restrict it to one planetar at a time, that's their problem.

how about "playing fair" thing, then?

[DavidW]

Should this bother me? Irenicus is casting Summon Dark Planetar vanilla-style - if the designers wanted to restrict it to one planetar at a time, that's their problem.

how about "playing fair" thing, then?

Point taken.

 

Okay, we'd probably better do this.

[Mahokenshi]

Well, I wasn't going to bother with this, but seeing as how this topic is on the go and all... .

 

The parts of this mod that do as advertised are great. Enemies act more intelligently, etc.

 

But in spite of this, I just had to uninstall it so I could enjoy the game again.

 

One of my biggest issues was the trash talking mages do. They automatically detect your stealth characters no matter what their move silently skill is, and then berate you for being such a cheesy player as to even attempt stealth. I played as a thief for 2 of the 3 games I completed, and I always bring along an active class thief (Jan, PC, or a mod). Having Ribald trash talk his best customers just because you have the Staff of the Magi equipped, or that invisibility spell is still active wasn't fun. It would be funny if, for instance, the mages friends poked fun at their arrogance. So if you equip the cloak of non detection on a thief, and the mages divination spell fails to reveal you, his companions take the piss a bit. A short conversation could trigger between the mage and his companions, and a thief character could go around and "collect" them all. That would be fun. Being insulted for taking a thief along isn't. On a related note, mages shouldn't automatically know when they need to cast divination spells. Building up a thief's move silently skills should have the proper pay off.

 

Also, the constant stone skinning of non-hostile characters I found to break the immersion for me. I can't imagine that you had a rash of players bull rush the Sigil troupe after their play. And seeing them perform it while stone skinned was just silly. Seeing the Helmite cleric shopkeeper at Watcher's Keep cast stoneskin was a bit too much. I cheated her into my party just to be sure a single class cleric had cast stoneskin. Would it be a lot of work to remove the "everybody just get stoned" script from non-hostile mages in non-dungeon areas? I can see the sewer party mage, Tolgeris, and several others with that combat protection active. The party might constantly have stoneskin active because they are actively adventuring. But people living their day to day lives (such as the Sigil troupe, Mencar Pebblecrusher's group relaxing in their posh inn room, etc) shouldn't be doing that.

 

The real killer for me, in every sense of the word, was that the Yuan-ti in the planar prison were a bunch of cheaters of the worst sort. To start off, remember that the planar prison is the Bard stronghold quest, and that this stronghold is one of the longest to complete, so Bard PCs will likely go there early. To start off, the Yuan-ti mages are all level 15/15 fighter/mages. A PC would need a Throne of Bhaal level XP total to match them. My party at the time was a Berserker 13(inactive)/mage 11, Keldon (10), Aerie 11/10, and Fade (mod teifling theif, 13). I beat the bounty hunter group with little difficulty, as well as the three thralls in the next room.

 

Oh, my. Here it starts.

 

I rushed into the room, just to test the waters and all that.

 

The Yuan - ti won easily. Reload.

 

I sent in just Fade, sealthed. First off, the three Yuan - ti mages weren't there. I thought that was odd, as I had the hardest monster spawn turned on. Oh, well, I think, and have Fade backstab the female thrall. The backstab didn't work. I didn't miss, I was standing right behind her, she's not a barabarian, I didn't get the "backstab ineffective message," nothing. It just Didn't Work. In pen and paper we call that GM fiat. While playing, I called it ... much worse than that.

 

Then the Yuan -ti mages appear. They were invisible, in spite of the fact that the female thrall's dialog makes it clear this group wasn't aware of your presence until just now. So they were just chilling, hanging out in a secure prison where there probably hasn't ever been uncontrolled violence, with a metagammed invisibility spell active. Yay. So Fade gulps an invisiblity potion and the Yuan - ti ... all run off and rush my party, who were waiting on the other side of the map and who the Yuan - ti had never seen in their lives, with the mages dimension dooring right on top of Aerie and Keldorn.

 

The Yuan - ti won easily. Reload.

 

Same tactic, this time I cast invisibility on everyone in my party, put them at the very back of the starting chamber, and sent in Fade, hoping to backstab at least that nasty greater Yuan - ti. They bull rushed my party again. My invisible party. With the mages teleporting right on top of Keldorn and Aerie, then casting true sight.

 

The Yuan - ti won easily. Reload.

 

As you can see, the Yuan - ti are winning, due in no small measure to the fact that they have about 4 000 000 XP apiece for the three battle mages, and that they are using everything that the game engine knows about my party location against me. By now I was quoting Samuel L. Jackson. Enough is enough.

 

So again with the invisiblity. I buff to the gills - everything I can cast gets cast. Fade lays all her traps a our feet. We rest until she gets seven down on the floor. Fade hides and runs to the Yuan - ti room, using are brand new boots of speed and an oil of speed. After she's there, my PC and Aerie cast every skull trap they can through the two halls and empty room between them and us. Fade backstabs a random Yuan - ti with its back turned. And it starts. The Yuan - ti mages decline to teleport to my party. Because, you see, they can detect my traps. From the other side of the map. Without thief levels or cleric spells. They are cheating.

 

The yuan ti footsoldiers and one of the mages do, however, rush through all the skulltraps on their mission to attack a party they don't know is there and can't see. They die. One mage parks itself JUST outside the range of the traps it can't see and starts casting. Against only one of them, and with three party members who can debuff, I manage to beat it. The last mage casts a spell, and then spends the rest of its round throwing meteors at my PC. I run in a circle, luring the thing into the traps. It dies. I finally win.

 

This is likely to be the first big mission players with Bard PCs play. And I won't bother writing about the two hard fights in there.

 

One last little thing. Every hostile thief seems to cheat. I lost a fight to the four thugs that sometimes appear outside the Aran's guild house in the docks. I noticed they were drinking hill giant strength potions. As I was painfully aware that my party's thief can't do that (without Use Any Item,) I reloaded and ctrl-J'd one of them into my party. He was (so I guess they all were) multi-classed human fighter thieves. So were all of Mae'var's guys (except the cleric). Now in 3rd edition of D&D, it's a small matter for a thief to take a few levels in fighter. In 2nd edition; it isn't. And all the joinable NPCs in the game, as well as the PC character generation, is done according to 2nd edition rules. So the random thugs are backstab monsters, while the PC is stuck with a traitorous drifter and a turnip salesman. Why not keep them thieves, buff their levels a bit, and give them potions of power instead? That would be more thiefy, have a similar effect on their thaco (I don't think strength bonuses get multiplied in a backstab), and be something the PC's party could easily duplicate.

 

Some fights were very fair and doable. I took down the guarded compound crew without Fade in my party, and with my breserker levels still inactive. They had HLA's and everything. Got them on the first try. I have trouble with these guys in an unmodded game. It was hard, but they played fair. The same goes for the sewer party fight.

 

And of course most of the mod's battle content was fair. Potions, spell selection, etc were all done very well.

 

And SCSI was a joy to play through. My Berserker/Mage soloed through BG1, as a Berserker, with that mod installed. My only complaint there is that the two dukes, Liia and Belt, should be given at least the same generic fighter and mage scripts that every other high level adventurer in that game gets. Sure it makes the palace fight a bit easier, but it's only fair to have these two be at least as competant as everyone else. Without a relsilant sphere spell, I had to cheat in a few of Lord Ao's lightning bolts to save them with my solo Berserker.

 

But, due to the reasons I outlined, it just wasn't for me. I was going to just keep my observations to myself, but I saw this thread, with similar comments to my own, so I thought I'd speak up.

[DavidW]

Thanks for this - very helpful, and sorry the mod wasn't for you. I think you might be misunderstanding some bits of what's going on, though.

 

Since my point-by-point reply is quite long, here's a summary of your objections - have I missed any?

 

1) you don't like neutrals having stoneskins

2) you think the WK priest is cheating by casting stoneskins

3) you don't like detect-invisible being cast

4) you don't like hostiles starting out invisible

5) you're bothered by the yuan-ti in the Prison being too high-level, especially given that your party is quite low level

6) you think the yuan-ti are cheating by teleporting to the party

7) you think the yuan-ti are cheating by avoiding your traps

8) you think the female thrall is cheating by being immune to backstab

9) you think the other creatures in the Prison are too tough as well

10) you think the fighter-thieves in the docks should be ordinary thieves

 

And the summary of my reply is:

 

1) I don't agree but others do, so it's optional in version 6

2) she isn't: it's Iron Skins, not Stoneskin, and she has that spell in the vanilla game

3) I have some sympathy with the idea that it should vary with thief stealth level, but you're wrong if you think it's intended as "trash-talking" - it's not intended to insult anyone

4) I don't really get the problem, since sound carries, but in any case this kind of thing is occasionally unavoidable with prebuffing.

5) They're only slightly higher level than the vanilla-game versions, and in any case the only reason you are encountering them is because you've got the "toughest spawn" component installed - uninstall it.

6) I agree in principle, though it's not as easy to fix as you might think; but I'll have another look.

7) They're not; it's a coincidence.

8) She's stoneskinned.

9-10) They're unchanged from the vanilla game, and I'm not really in the business of weakening vanilla-game creatures.

 

Anyway, point-by-point comments:

 

Well, I wasn't going to bother with this, but seeing as how this topic is on the go and all... .

 

The parts of this mod that do as advertised are great. Enemies act more intelligently, etc.

Cool.

But in spite of this, I just had to uninstall it so I could enjoy the game again.

Less cool.

One of my biggest issues was the trash talking mages do. They automatically detect your stealth characters no matter what their move silently skill is

It's randomised, actually. About a 25% chance per round of spotting you, iirc.

 

and then berate you for being such a cheesy player as to even attempt stealth.

It's not intentionally metagamed or "trash talked"; there's no intended message to player. I just made up a half-dozen random "ooh, I think I can see some invisible guy" messages. You might be reading something in that's not intended.

 

I played as a thief for 2 of the 3 games I completed, and I always bring along an active class thief (Jan, PC, or a mod). Having Ribald trash talk his best customers just because you have the Staff of the Magi equipped, or that invisibility spell is still active wasn't fun.

Again, no intended trash talk. Ribald just senses someone invisible and tries to spot him. (That's what I'd do if I lived in Athkatla.)

 

It would be funny if, for instance, the mages friends poked fun at their arrogance. So if you equip the cloak of non detection on a thief, and the mages divination spell fails to reveal you, his companions take the piss a bit. A short conversation could trigger between the mage and his companions, and a thief character could go around and "collect" them all. That would be fun.

Cool in principle; in practice, you're asking for another component, and one that doesn't naturally slot into a tactical mod. Happy to consider hosting it in SCSII if you feel like coding it though

 

Being insulted for taking a thief along isn't.

At the risk of being repetitive, I'm not sure why you think you're being insulted. The mage messages are:

 

@1101=~Hmmm... what was that?~
@1102=~Strange... let's see what a little divination will show.~
@1103=~Show yourself! You cannot hide from a mage!~
@1104=~Come out, spy... I can sense your presence~

 

and I can't especially see why any of them are insulting of the character, let alone the player.

 

On a related note, mages shouldn't automatically know when they need to cast divination spells. Building up a thief's move silently skills should have the proper pay off.

Fair in principle; as usual, there's a tradeoff in coding and testing time. (The vanilla game does the same, incidentally.)

 

Also, the constant stone skinning of non-hostile characters I found to break the immersion for me.

A common, though not majority, objection; v6 has an option (at console) to turn off prebuffing for nonhostile creatures.

I can't imagine that you had a rash of players bull rush the Sigil troupe after their play. And seeing them perform it while stone skinned was just silly.

Yes, the troupe being stoneskinned just is silly; that needs fixing.

 

Seeing the Helmite cleric shopkeeper at Watcher's Keep cast stoneskin was a bit too much. I cheated her into my party just to be sure a single class cleric had cast stoneskin.

It's Iron Skins, actually, and she has the spell in the vanilla game. (Lots of ToB divine casters have a mixture of priest and druid spells; ask the designers why. I don't mess with it, but I do get people to autocast the defences they have.

 

Would it be a lot of work to remove the "everybody just get stoned" script from non-hostile mages in non-dungeon areas?

No; see above.

 

I can see the sewer party mage, Tolgeris, and several others with that combat protection active. The party might constantly have stoneskin active because they are actively adventuring. But people living their day to day lives (such as the Sigil troupe, Mencar Pebblecrusher's group relaxing in their posh inn room, etc) shouldn't be doing that.

One of the reasons I default to stoneskinning neutrals is that I actually don't agree. People - especially adventurers - who live in Athkatla and who can cast Stoneskin would be mad not to, because so many random dangerous things happen. Mencar's group is a case in point: they're resting up in a classy inn, but then a random bunch of adventurers turn up and wham, they're in a fight. That kind of thing gets around - call it natural selection.

 

... but, as I say, those who disagree can turn off neutral prebuffing at the console as of v6.

 

The real killer for me, in every sense of the word, was that the Yuan-ti in the planar prison were a bunch of cheaters of the worst sort. To start off, remember that the planar prison is the Bard stronghold quest, and that this stronghold is one of the longest to complete, so Bard PCs will likely go there early.

... which hasn't really got anything to do with them cheating.

 

To start off, the Yuan-ti mages are all level 15/15 fighter/mages. A PC would need a Throne of Bhaal level XP total to match them.

Um... I'm not quite sure where you've got that from. They're all straight mages; one is L15, two are L13. The Cowled Wizards in the Planar Sphere (for instance) are higher level than that. (For technical reasons I wouldn't be 100% surprised if they show up as F/M if you CTRL-Q them, but take my word for it, they're straight mages. You'll notice that apart from Meteors, they don't actually engage in melee or missile combat in any case.)

 

In the vanilla game, I think they're 12th or 13th level, so I've boosted them slightly.

 

Oh, well, I think, and have Fade backstab the female thrall. The backstab didn't work. I didn't miss, I was standing right behind her, she's not a barabarian, I didn't get the "backstab ineffective message," nothing. It just Didn't Work. In pen and paper we call that GM fiat. While playing, I called it ... much worse than that.

I suggest calling it ... Stoneskin.

 

Then the Yuan -ti mages appear. They were invisible, in spite of the fact that the female thrall's dialog makes it clear this group wasn't aware of your presence until just now. So they were just chilling, hanging out in a secure prison where there probably hasn't ever been uncontrolled violence, with a metagammed invisibility spell active.

There's only so much you can do to avoid oddities like that; prebuffing always generates a small amount of oddness and suspended-disbelief. Though I might add

that the very fact that there's a multitude of high-level guards hanging around the prison suggests that they're not as relaxed about violence as you might think. And sound carries, you know.

 

Yay. So Fade gulps an invisiblity potion and the Yuan - ti ... all run off and rush my party, who were waiting on the other side of the map and who the Yuan - ti had never seen in their lives, with the mages dimension dooring right on top of Aerie and Keldorn.

That's slightly suboptimal, I agree. To some extent I blame the game engine: it's not that easy to intelligently handle situations where people drop out of sight. But I should probably see if it can be tuned a bit. (Your style isn't one I've used much myself, so it's not an oddity I'd have seen myself.)

 

As you can see, the Yuan - ti are winning, due in no small measure to the fact that they have about 4 000 000 XP apiece for the three battle mages,

1.9 million for the leader, 1.2 million apiece for the other two.

and that they are using everything that the game engine knows about my party location against me.

Which, as noted, is unideal... though having said that, they don't know any more than you do, and simulating scouting in the game is basically impossible, so I don't actually think it unbalances much.

 

So again with the invisiblity. I buff to the gills - everything I can cast gets cast. Fade lays all her traps a our feet. We rest until she gets seven down on the floor. Fade hides and runs to the Yuan - ti room, using are brand new boots of speed and an oil of speed. After she's there, my PC and Aerie cast every skull trap they can through the two halls and empty room between them and us. Fade backstabs a random Yuan - ti with its back turned. And it starts. The Yuan - ti mages decline to teleport to my party. Because, you see, they can detect my traps. From the other side of the map. Without thief levels or cleric spells. They are cheating.

They can't detect your traps. (I wish I knew how to do that, but I don't.) It's just luck.

 

The yuan ti footsoldiers and one of the mages do, however, rush through all the skulltraps on their mission to attack a party they don't know is there and can't see. They die. One mage parks itself JUST outside the range of the traps it can't see and starts casting.

Again, that's just your bad luck; I can't detect traps. (Notice you managed to lure it in.)

 

Against only one of them, and with three party members who can debuff, I manage to beat it. The last mage casts a spell, and then spends the rest of its round throwing meteors at my PC. I run in a circle, luring the thing into the traps. It dies. I finally win.

 

This is likely to be the first big mission players with Bard PCs play.

Playing on "maximum difficulty spawns" is, um, optional.

 

And I won't bother writing about the two hard fights in there.

If I recall correctly, neither is really modified other than making the AI smarter. SCS II does exactly what it says on the tin. (Again, if you think there's cheating going on, do tell, but if there is it's unintentional.)

 

One last little thing. Every hostile thief seems to cheat. I lost a fight to the four thugs that sometimes appear outside the Aran's guild house in the docks. I noticed they were drinking hill giant strength potions. As I was painfully aware that my party's thief can't do that (without Use Any Item,) I reloaded and ctrl-J'd one of them into my party. He was (so I guess they all were) multi-classed human fighter thieves.

It isn't cheating to be a fighter/thief. Blame Bioware, in any case: they made the muggers fighter/thieves, not me.

 

So were all of Mae'var's guys (except the cleric).

Again, that's unchanged from the vanilla game.

Now in 3rd edition of D&D, it's a small matter for a thief to take a few levels in fighter. In 2nd edition; it isn't. And all the joinable NPCs in the game, as well as the PC character generation, is done according to 2nd edition rules. So the random thugs are backstab monsters, while the PC is stuck with a traitorous drifter and a turnip salesman. Why not keep them thieves, buff their levels a bit, and give them potions of power instead?

Because that involves changing the vanilla game, and I'm happy with it the way it is.

 

That would be more thiefy, have a similar effect on their thaco (I don't think strength bonuses get multiplied in a backstab), and be something the PC's party could easily duplicate.

Um... why can't you duplicate it by creating a multi-classed fighter/thief or by taking eight levels of fighter and then dual-classing? (Or by dual-classing Yoshimo, come to think of it.)

 

And SCSI was a joy to play through. My Berserker/Mage soloed through BG1, as a Berserker, with that mod installed. My only complaint there is that the two dukes, Liia and Belt, should be given at least the same generic fighter and mage scripts that every other high level adventurer in that game gets.

You don't want them to get the same scripts: those scripts preferentially target PCs In principle I agree that they could usefully have some combat competence; in practice it's a pain to script for relatively little reward. But I'll do it if I have a chance.

 

I was going to just keep my observations to myself, but I saw this thread, with similar comments to my own, so I thought I'd speak up.

I think the "similar comments" are basically confined to stoneskin, but possibly I've missed something.

[Suluku]

It is irritating when enemy mages teleport halfway across a map to do battle with the party after they detect a scout. Sound only carries so far, and if enemies haven't detected the party as soon as they enter an area it seems unreasonable that they should be able to locate the party unerringly as soon as they are alerted. It would appeal to players' sense of fairness if some random or delaying element could be introduced to enemy 'search and destroy' behaviour, e.g. some enemies dimension door to random locations or not at all, or the enemy party is made to waste a round casting a farsight-type spell before they are allowed to teleport. I don't know how easy that would be to code, however. On balance I would prefer to keep enemy teleporting attacks in the game rather than omit them altogether.

[Mahokenshi]

Thanks for this - very helpful, and sorry the mod wasn't for you. I think you might be misunderstanding some bits of what's going on, though.

 

Since my point-by-point reply is quite long, here's a summary of your objections - have I missed any?

 

1) you don't like neutrals having stoneskins

2) you think the WK priest is cheating by casting stoneskins

3) you don't like detect-invisible being cast

4) you don't like hostiles starting out invisible

5) you're bothered by the yuan-ti in the Prison being too high-level, especially given that your party is quite low level

6) you think the yuan-ti are cheating by teleporting to the party

7) you think the yuan-ti are cheating by avoiding your traps

8) you think the female thrall is cheating by being immune to backstab

9) you think the other creatures in the Prison are too tough as well

10) you think the fighter-thieves in the docks should be ordinary thieves

 

And the summary of my reply is:

 

1) I don't agree but others do, so it's optional in version 6

2) she isn't: it's Iron Skins, not Stoneskin, and she has that spell in the vanilla game

3) I have some sympathy with the idea that it should vary with thief stealth level, but you're wrong if you think it's intended as "trash-talking" - it's not intended to insult anyone

4) I don't really get the problem, since sound carries, but in any case this kind of thing is occasionally unavoidable with prebuffing.

5) They're only slightly higher level than the vanilla-game versions, and in any case the only reason you are encountering them is because you've got the "toughest spawn" component installed - uninstall it.

6) I agree in principle, though it's not as easy to fix as you might think; but I'll have another look.

7) They're not; it's a coincidence.

8) She's stoneskinned.

9-10) They're unchanged from the vanilla game, and I'm not really in the business of weakening vanilla-game creatures.

 

Thanks for the reply. You're right in that I did get a lot of my info about NPC's by crtl-q'ing them into my party. I think I said I did so for one of the theives. The yuan-ti mages show up as 15/15 fighter/mages that way. The Helmite shopkeeper also shows up as "stoneskinned" in a ctrl-q (I had thought it was an ironskin myself at first.)

 

 

 

The invisible yuan ti wouldn't be a big deal; it's just that the one of the thralls says that something along the lines of "oh, dear, invaders" upon sighting you; which suggests this group wasn't aware of you yet. I wouldn't have minded of she hadn't had anything to say - because it does make sense they'd hear the first two fights. Maybe just alter the line a bit?

 

As for the toughest spawn component; I actually installed most of the mod for my gameplay, and then unistallled bits of it as I ran up into a lot of trouble. The mind flayers in the sewers, for instance, were just not for me. I gave them a go; managed to beat them, and took your advice to uninstall. "Thoughest monster spawn" used to be the only component from tactics I used (just to get a bit of extra XP, and to ensure that the statues carrying Foebane and that electrical Ninja-to in watcher's keep would spawn if I got there early to buy stuff/get the ammo belt.) I kept it out of force of habbit. I mention the potential low level of Bards because, with up to 6 Yuan-ti mages, a deamon, and the cambion; that place can be rough with every component installed. Maybe too rough for a new Bard just cutting his teeth.

 

The female thrall is stoneskinned? There are two there in the Yuan-ti room. One's a mage and the other is the fighter looking type wearing splint mail, guantlets of weapon expertise, and carrying the famous Kundane short sword (the one with the "secret" bonus attack per round.) I tried to stab Ms. Kundane. And I mentioned her not being a barbarian because I'm pretty sure I ctrl-q'ed her as well, and she read as "fighter." She didn't look all that mage-ish; nor did she seemed stone skinned. It's hard to see her though; is she facing AWAY from the snakes in "front" of her? That would do it; and it's hard to tell from the screen with the snakes in the way. She took normal damage from Fade's attack, by the way. I should have said that.

 

As to the fighter thieves; I didn't know what they were in the origional game. I only "peek behind the DM screen" when I think I'm being had. It was the giant strength potions that set me off. Imoen, Nalia, and Jan can't do that. Yoshimo can, but if you dual him right away it'll still take a while for his fighter levels to catch up (perhaps too long... ) So it's either make a fighter/thief PC or download someone like Amber or Valen. Speaking of cheating, please don't make me download Valen ... It was just a knee jerk reaction of "hey, I have to put up with Fade's thief limitations, and all these shomes get giant strength potions? What gives? They're all multi-classed humans? Why?" What about potions of power for them anyway; just to fit with their idiom (I think they help with steath skills as well)?

 

 

Yes, by "similar comments" I ment several comments about the stoneskin thing, as well as a comment somewhere about a player sending a well buffed sorcerer, and I think his skeleton warrior friends, after some beholders, only to have the beholders rush at his far-away party (akin to my all knowing yuan ti.)

 

And, first thing last, the "trash talking", as I called it. It just felt like a case of "Ha! We new, improved mages are so awesome that we don't have to roll dice to detect your stealthy character!" I must have just been really unlucky, because in both games it seemed to happen to me all the time. Fade had to resist quite a number of true sights. It happened so often that I'd send her in, have the bad guys waste a divination spell, pull her back, send her in again, have them waste another, repeat until they stopped casting them, and then sent in my invisible party ... . That's how I beat the sewer party, right out of Irenicus's dungeon. If you want to make the game harder, remove the cloak of non-detection. I abuse that thing more than the Robe of Vecna (which I usually just give to Aerie for faster cleric spells; those things take forever to cast.)

[Salk]

Hello!

 

In my opinion, the non-ordinary kind of magic (namely the Divination kind which in the vanilla game is practically non-existant) should be limited greatly by randomizing it (like 5% chance).

 

Teleportation is a good idea because it makes the game more challenging and I am happy about that. But this might also be randomized so that it doesn't happen automatically.

 

I don't know the technical details about how much SCS relies on randomizations but I have always thought that it's a great thing to use it to introduce variations and surprise the players.

 

Also, as side note I am against any kind of level/stats biffing for enemies unless there is a consensus about an objectively weak NPC.

[DavidW]

@Mahokenshi: again, thanks for that. One lesson I learn from it: Ctrl-Q is unreliable! (I never use it personally, so I don't know what it does). I confess I'm slightly theorising about the stoneskin/backstab issue, though. All I know is: I don't actually grant backstab-immunity to anybody. It's possible it was some other glitch. Ditto the WK merchant: she's a cleric and I don't tell clerics to cast stoneskin, so I'm assuming it's ironskin and that Ctrl-Q shows it unreliably... but I'll check sometime.

 

As for the muggers: you're saying that the game would be better if they were thieves and not fighter/thieves, and you may be right about that, in principle. The problem is, there are over four thousand creatures in the game. Reviewing all of Bioware's decisions as to which statistics to give to each and every one of them is way beyond the scope of SCSII. I'm just in the business of providing smarter AI for the basic Bioware creatures, and then doing ad hoc modifications as and when. But I only really modify creatures when something seriously demands it, and I don't really think this qualifies. The muggers aren't actually doing anything against the game rules.

 

Also, as side note I am against any kind of level/stats biffing for enemies unless there is a consensus about an objectively weak NPC.

In my experience of writing tactical mods, you'd be lucky to achieve a consensus as to whether night is dark. I go for something more achievable: I am against any kind of level/stats biffing for enemies unless I, personally, think an NPC is too weak to offer an adequate challenge, or too weak to be realistic. If others disagree: well, I listen to feedback, and I also try to make components optional.

[Salk]

In my experience of writing tactical mods, you'd be lucky to achieve a consensus as to whether night is dark.

 

Point well taken.

 

But what about the level of randomization in the SCS scripts?

[DavidW]

In my experience of writing tactical mods, you'd be lucky to achieve a consensus as to whether night is dark.

 

Point well taken.

 

But what about the level of randomization in the SCS scripts?

 

Sorry, should have replied.

 

- divination is random, though with more like a 25% chance than your suggested 5%.

 

- teleportation is part of the "chase" block that runs whenever a mage has seen an enemy but can't see him any more because he's gone off-screen. The mage tries moving towards the offscreen person for a bit, and if that doesn't work, they teleport to a random party member (isn't divination wonderful). I'm a prisoner of the scripting system here, to some extent, though there's probably something to be done to avoid Mahokenshi's travails.

[Salk]

Well, your solution looks elegant to my eyes although I would definitely tone down the chance on divination (from 25% to 10% max).

 

Mind you, I am nitpicking here. I consider SCS and SCS II two milestones in the IE modding scene so... congratulations again for what you accomplished, DavidW!

[Razfallow]

One of my biggest issues was the trash talking mages do. They automatically detect your stealth characters no matter what their move silently skill is

It's randomised, actually. About a 25% chance per round of spotting you, iirc.

 

If Beginner’s Guide to BG2 Scripting (by Goran Rimen and Yovaneth Scet) is correct, then it's 50% chance actually.

 

IF

HotKey(S)

THEN

RESPONSE #1

VerbalConstant(Myself,3)

Wait(6)

RESPONSE #2

VerbalConstant(Myself,4)

Wait(6)

RESPONSE #3

VerbalConstant(Myself,5)

Wait(6)

END

 

To calculate the chance for a certain response to be activated, when you have several to chose of. Do following. Sum all the response numbers. In this case 1+2+3 = 6.

 

The chances are, for response #1, 1 chance of 6, for response #2, 2 chances of 6, and for response #3, 3 chances of 6.