Evil Magic

[Caedwyr]

I need a bit of interpretation about some wizard/sorcerer spells. Specifically, which vanilla spells from BG2:ToB are considered evil (something a 'good' individual shouldn't cast). Many of them can definately be used in an evil way, but I'm looking more for something that is inherently evil and casting the spell cannot be justified as a non-evil action, no matter the outcome or circumstances. If anyone has a good source for any decisions that they can quote, please let me know. I'd prefer 2nd edition sources, but I can go with 3rd edition sources as well so long as whatever is described as being evil about the spell hasn't changed between the editions.

 

SPWI101 Grease

SPWI102 Armor

SPWI103 Burning Hands

SPWI104 Charm Person

SPWI105 Colour Spray

SPWI106 Blindness

SPWI107 Friends

SPWI108 Protection from Petrification

SPWI110 Identify

SPWI111 Infravision

SPWI112 Magic Missile

SPWI113 Protection from Evil

SPWI114 Shield

SPWI115 Shocking Grasp

SPWI116 Sleep

SPWI117 Chill Touch

SPWI118 Chromatic Orb

SPWI119 Larloch's Minor Drain

SPWI120 Reflected Image

SPWI123 Find Familiar

SPWI124 Nahal's Reckless Dweomer

SPWI125 Spook

 

SPWI201 Blur

SPWI202 Detect Evil

SPWI203 Detect Invisibility

SPWI205 Horror

SPWI206 Invisibility

SPWI207 Knock

SPWI208 Know Alignment

SPWI209 Luck

SPWI210 Resist Fear

SPWI211 Melf's Acid Arrow

SPWI212 Mirror Image

SPWI213 Stinking Cloud

SPWI214 Strength

SPWI215 Web

SPWI217 Agannazar's Scorcher

SPWI218 Ghoul Touch

SPWI219 Vocalise

SPWI220 Power Word Sleep

SPWI221 Ray of Enfeeblement

SPWI222 Chaos Shield*

SPWI223 Deafness

SPWI224 Gliterdust

 

SPWI301 Clairvoyance

SPWI302 Remove Magic

SPWI303 Flame Arrow

SPWI304 Fireball

SPWI305 Haste

SPWI306 Hold Person

SPWI307 Invisibility 10' Radius

SPWI308 Lightning Bolt

SPWI309 Monster Summoning I

SPWI310 Non-Detection

SPWI311 Protection from Normal Missiles

SPWI312 Slow

SPWI313 Skull Trap

SPWI314 Vampiric Touch

SPWI316 Dire Charm

SPWI317 Ghost Armor

SPWI318 Minor Spell Deflection

SPWI319 Protection from Fire

SPWI320 Protection from Cold

SPWI321 Spell Thrust

SPWI322 Detect Illusion

SPWI324 Hold Undead

SPWI325 Melf's Minute Meteors

SPWI326 Dispell Magic

 

SPWI401 Confusion

SPWI402 Dimension Door

SPWI403 Fire Shield (Blue)

SPWI404 Ice Storm

SPWI405 Improved Invisibility

SPWI406 Minor Globe of Invulneribility

SPWI407 Monster Summoning II

SPWI408 Stoneskin

SPWI409 Contagion

SPWI410 Remove Curse

SPWI411 Emotion

SPWI412 Greater Malison

SPWI413 Otilukes Resilient Sphere

SPWI414 Spirit Armor

SPWI415 Polymorph Other

SPWI416 Polymorph Self

SPWI417 Enchanted Weapon

SPWI418 Fire Sheild (Red)

SPWI419 Secret Word

SPWI420 Minor Sequencer

SPWI421 Teleport Field

SPWI423 Spider Spawn

SPWI424 Farsight

SPWI425 Wizard Eye

 

SPWI501 Animate Dead

SPWI502 Cloudkill

SPWI503 Cone of Cold

SPWI504 Monster Summoning III

SPWI505 Shadow Door

SPWI506 Domination

SPWI507 Hold Monster

SPWI508 Chaos

SPWI509 Feeblemind

SPWI510 Spell Immunity

SPWI511 Protection from Normal Weapons

SPWI512 Protection from Electricity

SPWI513 Breach

SPWI514 Lower Resistance

SPWI515 Oracle

SPWI516 Conjure Lesser Fire Elemental

SPWI517 Protection from Acid

SPWI518 Phantom Blade

SPWI519 Spell Shield

SPWI520 Conjure Lesser Air Elemental

SPWI521 Conjure Lesser Earth Elemental

SPWI522 Minor Spell Turning

SPWI523 Sunfire

 

SPWI601 Invisible Stalker

SPWI602 Globe of Invulneribility

SPWI603 Tenser's Transformation

SPWI604 Flesh to Stone

SPWI605 Death Spell

SPWI606 Protection from Magic Energy

SPWI607 Mislead

SPWI608 Pierce Magic

SPWI609 True Sight

SPWI611 Protection from Magic Weapons

SPWI612 Power Word Silence

SPWI613 Improved Haste

SPWI614 Death Fog

SPWI615 Chain Lightning

SPWI616 Disintegrate

SPWI617 Contingency

SPWI618 Spell Deflection

SPWI619 Wyvern Call

SPWI620 Conjure Fire Elemental

SPWI621 Conjure Air Elemental

SPWI622 Conjure Earth Elemental

SPWI623 Carrion Summons

SPWI624 Summon Nishru

SPWI625 Stone to Flesh

 

SPWI701 Spell Turning

SPWI702 Protection from the Elements

SPWI703 Project Image

SPWI704 Ruby Ray of Reversal

SPWI705 Khelben's Warding Whip

SPWI707 Cacofiend

SPWI708 Manlte

SPWI710 Spell Sequencer

SPWI711 Sphere of Chaos

SPWI712 Delayed Blast Firewall

SPWI713 Finger of Death

SPWI714 Prismatic Spray

SPWI715 Powerword Stun

SPWI716 Mordenkainen's Sword

SPWI717 Summon Efreeti

SPWI718 Summon Djinni

SPWI719 Summon Hakeashar

SPWI720 Control Undead

SPWI721 Mass Invisibility

SPWI722 Limited Wish

SPWI723 Improved Chaos Shield*

 

SPWI802 Spell Deflection

SPWI803 Protection from Energy

SPWI804 Simulacrum

SPWI805 Pierce Shield

SPWI807 Summon Fiend

SPWI808 Improved Mantle

SPWI809 Spell Trigger

SPWI810 Incendiary Cloud

SPWI811 Symbol Fear

SPWI812 Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting

SPWI813 Maze

SPWI815 Power Word Blind

SPWI816 Symbol Stun

SPWI817 Symbol Death

SPWI818 Bigby's Clenched Fist

 

SPWI902 Spell Trap

SPWI903 Spellstrike

SPWI905 Gate

SPWI907 Absolute Immunity

SPWI908 Chain Contingency

SPWI909 Time Stop

SPWI910 Imprisonment

SPWI911 Meteor Storm

SPWI912 Power Word Kill

SPWI913 Wail of the Banshee

SPWI914 Energy Drain

SPWI915 Black Blade of Disaster

SPWI916 Shapechange

SPWI917 Freedom

SPWI918 Bigby's Crushing Hand

SPWI919 Wish

[Kulyok]

You'll be surprised at how many evil actions are good if performed by the right guys.

 

(See Imprisonment in the wizard's\sorcerer's Planar Sphere quest, or good old Domination).

[Caedwyr]

Yeah, hence my conumdrum. Animate dead is one that could be considered evil, if it pulls the souls of the dead back against their wills into the skeletons to animate the corpses. However, if it is just uses magical force to animate the bones, its pretty much just a simple non-evil animate object spell targetted at some skeletons.

 

Then again, if I look at this from a perspective, of what would an individual who doesn't want to even have to deal with shades of grey object to casting. The demon summoning spells stand out as ones to be pruned from his list, and possibly death spell/finger of death (I need to look up their descriptions, same with animate dead)

[Domi]

probably Gate; perhaps stuff of major torture quality ie Horrid Wilting, Flesh to Stone, Fireball, Scorcher....

[icelus]

I think it also depends on how you perceive the elements. For instance, fire could be taken as evil because it correlates to hell and such, but on the other, the sun is generally considered good. There's also the whole light vs. dark angle. You could probably make an argument either way for fire- and ice- based spells.

 

Necromancy almost always falls under the evil category. Protection spells usually the opposite. Mind control is iffy. Are we talking Jedi mind tricks or enthralling?

 

I haven't helped at all, have I?

[Fyorl]

*sighs* It's simply not as easy as Harry Potter >_<

[Caedwyr]

@Icelus: No, not very much at all.

 

Like I said, I'm not looking for spells that could be used in an evil manner, but rather spells that are fundamentally evil to use in and among themselves. The various mind control spells might be getting close there as they involve taking away free will, but then you could also argue the same about the monster and animal summoning spells, Most conjuration spells in fact.

 

So, really I'm mostly looking at the Cacofiend, Summon Fiend, Gate, and possibly Animate Dead, Deathspell, Finger of Death, and maybe one or two others depending on how their descriptions read.

 

Necromancy is not an easy class of spells to put a label on, because if you simply label all necromantic spells as evil, then you've just gone and made all the healing spells evil.

[Daulmakan]

Interesting discussion. I agree with Caedwyr's points about necromantic spells.

 

I would propose Trap the Soul, Ensnarement, and Feeblemind to the list of potentially evil candidates. Thing is, I can't conclusively state that their use is evil by default.

 

Incinerating an enemy wizard to death via Fireball doesn't seem much better than giving him the intellect of a moronic child.

 

I tend to think of spells as tools, means to an end, and I can't judge any of them as a more inadequate tool than the other.

 

I think this issue is clearer for priest spells, where the nature of the deity determines the available spheres for each priest, and thus determines what is appropriate (or evil, if that's the case) or not. In this way, the problem are not the spells but the ones who use them.

 

So yeah, another unhelpful post I guess.

[Domi]

Deathspell, Finger of Death, and maybe one or two others depending on how their descriptions read.

 

I guess the thing for me is that the spells that kill (or designed to kill) instanteneously are more merciful than the ones that inflict pain.

[Caedwyr]

Yeah, its a lot easier when the description of the spell explicitly states "This spell is evil. It is purely designed and only useful for causing the utmost torment and agony in its subject. It also leaves the subject in a state that they are unable to communicate in any way. For bonus points it also damns their soul to eternal suffering"

 

/sigh

[Guest Tempest]

Note: Most necromancy spells aren't evil in the slightest-not all spells relating to death and the dead are evil. Note that Kelemvor and Jergal are both LN, not evil. Not even the Bestow Curse spell is evil-it can be used just as easily by a good character to curse an evil-doer.

 

Here's a list of the 3.5E spells that specifically have the evil descriptor (i.e. for purposes of spells like protection from evil, these are specifically affected):

 

Align Weapon (if used to make a weapon evil)

Animate Dead

Blasphemy

Contagion

Create Undead

Create Greater Undead

Curse Water

Deathknell

Deathwatch

Desecrate

Dispel Good

Eyebite

Magic Circle Against Good

Nightmare

Planar Ally (if used to summon evil outsiders)

Planar Binding (if used to summon evil outsiders)

Protection From Good

Summon Monster I-IX (if used to summon evil monsters)

Symbol of Pain

Unhallow

Unholy Aura

Unholy Blight

 

Those are the only spells considered evil by their actual magical nature. Trap the Soul is simply a Conjuration (Summoning) spell. Death spells are neither good nor evil by nature-the vast majority of Necromancy spells are in fact neutral in alignment. They're necromantic, not evil.

[Domi]

Yeah, its a lot easier when the description of the spell explicitly states "This spell is evil. It is purely designed and only useful for causing the utmost torment and agony in its subject. It also leaves the subject in a state that they are unable to communicate in any way. For bonus points it also damns their soul to eternal suffering"

 

/sigh

 

Hey, and then there is Valygar's position...

[Kulyok]

Or Ajantis': "This spell has a sense of Eeevil about it!"

[berelinde]

So, really I'm mostly looking at the Cacofiend, Summon Fiend, Gate...

Those three are pretty unambiguous. After that, it gets a lot more grey-shaded.

[Guest Guest]

feeblemind is much more 'human' than magic missile someone to death

if you consider that feeblemind is easier reversible and doesn't even cause much pain.

 

Sadly the in game version of feeblemind doesn't really stop an opponent from fight. It doesn't even really affect their combat potential.