(Minor) Globes of Invulnerability

[devSin]

We had another thread about dispelling the globes somewhere around here. I'm still on the fence between bug and intentional (I think I actually had a reason for it back in the day), although I did make them dispellable locally.

[Nythrun]

I thought it was a description holdover from BG (where the always successful Dispel Magic is the only spell protection removal - not the case in BGII) and changed the description instead.

[devSin]

I think you found my reason.

 

E.g., rather than having altogether worthless globes, they decided to just have worthless globes and forgot to modify the description.

[aVENGER_(RR)]

Actually, the Minor Globe of Invulnerability should be removed by Dispel Magic per 2E AD&D rules. It's stated in the PHB spell description:

 

Minor Globe of Invulnerability

(Abjuration)

Range: 0

Components: V, S, M

Duration: 1 rd./level

Casting Time: 4

Area of Effect: 5-ft. radius Saving Throw: None

 

This spell creates an immobile, faintly shimmering magical sphere around the caster that prevents any 1st-, 2nd-, or 3rd-level spell effects from penetrating (i.e., the area of effect of any such spells does not include the area of the minor globe of invulnerability). This includes innate abilities and effects from devices. However, any type of spell can be cast out of the magical globe, and these pass from the caster of the globe to their subject without affecting the globe. Fourth and higher level spells are not affected by the globe. The globe can be brought down by a successful dispel magic spell. The caster can leave and return to the globe without penalty. Note that spell effects are not actually disrupted by the globe unless cast directly through or into it: The caster would still see a mirror image created by a wizard outside the globe. If that wizard then entered the globe, the images would wink out, to reappear when the wizard exited the globe. Likewise, a wizard standing in the area of a light spell would still receive sufficient light for vision, even though that part of the light spell volume in the globe would not be luminous. The material component of the spell is a glass or crystal bead that shatters at the expiration of the spell.

[CamDawg]

To save you from Sim pointing this out in a much more unkind manner, BG2 is not P&P.

[aVENGER_(RR)]

Yeah, I know, but I still thought my reasoning was sound especially since the globe was dispellable in unmodded BG1.

 

Anyway, how about an optional component called the "PnP Fixpack" or something? It would be completely separate from Core Fixes and would yet resolve some gaping inconsistencies between BG2 and PnP such as skeletons having brains, minor globes being über spells, thieves being lame at dual-wielding and such?

[Caedwyr]

How would you know that it was an intentional change or not. Like aVENGER has mentioned, the behaviour in BGI was for the globe to be dispellable. The description of the spell still says this, but it doesn't behave the same. Given the trend, and there being no note about it amongst the other deliberate spell behaviour changes between the two games wouldn't it be more likely to just be a bug in BGII that dispel magic fails against a minor globe.

[SimDing0]

I can't be bothered to find the appropriate thread, but skeletons being immune to an ability labelled "Devour Brain" seems like common sense rather than PnP.

[devSin]

How would you know that it was an intentional change or not.

So it's more likely that they accidentally changed the behavior?

[Caedwyr]

Couldn't it have just as easily be caught in a group of batch changes when they were figuring out which spells should be affected by dispel magic and which ones aren't.

 

Regardless, either the description should be changed or the spell should be changed.

[Salk]

Anyway, how about an optional component called the "PnP Fixpack" or something? It would be completely separate from Core Fixes and would yet resolve some gaping inconsistencies between BG2 and PnP such as skeletons having brains, minor globes being über spells, thieves being lame at dual-wielding and such?

 

I like this idea VERY much...

[Nythrun]

Almost every BG spell that made into the sequel (and that's almost all of them) didn't change dispellability.

 

The ones that went to not dispellable are a handful of cures (which are instant effects, it's a cosmetic change to the graphics) and the two globes.

 

I wish they had done batch work, there'd be less left for us to do.

[CamDawg]

This is now a mishmash of three threads which were merged, so it's really unreadable.

 

Take-away items:

• Spell Thrust was failing against MGI. This is fixed.
  
• Despite the spell description of (M)GI, Dispel Magic does not work against it in BG2 even though it did in BG. Read the thread for details, but this appears to be intentional and we'll be updating the description, not the behavior of the globes.
  

Minor Globe of Invulnerability (Abjuration)

Level: 4

Range: 0

Duration: 1 round/level

Casting Time: 4

Area of Effect: 5-foot-radius sphere

Saving Throw: None

 

This spell creates a faintly shimmering magical sphere around the caster that prevents any 1st-, 2nd-, or 3rd-level spell effects from penetrating (i.e., the area of effect of any such spells does not include the area of the minor globe of invulnerability). This includes innate abilities and effects from devices. However, any type of spell can be cast out of the magical sphere, and these pass from the caster of the globe to their subject without affecting the minor globe. Fourth and higher level spells are not affected by the globe. The globe can be brought down by a successful dispel magic spell forms of magical attack such as Spellstrike and Pierce Magic.

Globe of Invulnerability (Abjuration)

Level: 6

Range: 0

Duration: 1 round/level

Casting Time: 6

Area of Effect: 5-foot-radius sphere

Saving Throw: None

 

This spell creates an immobile, faintly shimmering magical sphere around the caster that prevents any 1st-, 2nd-, 3rd- or 4th-level spell effects from penetrating (i.e., the area of effect of any such spells does not include the area of the globe of invulnerability). This includes innate abilities and effects from devices. However, any type of spell can be cast out of the magical sphere, and these pass from the caster of the globe to their subject without affecting the globe. Fifth and higher level spells are not affected by the globe. The globe can be brought down by a successful dispel magic spell, as well as other forms of magical attack such as Spellstrike and Pierce Magic.

 

Moving to archives.

[Demivrgvs]

Personally i think (M)GI should be dispellable to avoid potential exploits:

Improved Invisibility+ SI:Divination + MGI = Specific/Combat/Spell Protections unremoveable in any way (three mid-level spell performing much better than a Spelltrap!)

Am i wrong?

[Nythrun]

The Minor Globe won't make any difference in that case and the AI will have to struggle with catching your PC in range of a Dispel or something - not changing the spell means that behavior won't change