Mage Kit

[Caedwyr]

Yeah, I've currently shifted the level 18 and 20 blessings over to the HLAs and require them to be purchased first. They still end up with the same number of HLAs, but 2 of them are taken up by the blessings. On the other hand, having to take those two blessings isn't exactly a painful decision as they're still quite good.

 

I'll try fiddling with preventing the off-hand from being used and no 2-handed weapons allowed (good point on the protection from string opcodes). Maybe throw a few less spell slots into the mix as well. Playtesting will hopefully help wrinkle out any problems.

[Guest John]

FWIW, regarding staves, I'd find it a turn-off if a mage character couldn't use them because of my playing style. In game, I usually play solo and up to 4 person groups. I don't normally go after the SotM because it's not a part of anyone's quest and, as a practical OOC matter, it's not needed in order to play the game either. I do, howver, pick up the staves of fire and air, and they are invaluable not for the mage's use as a weapon but because they provide additional summoned monsters and effects without requiring the use of spells during fights.

 

John

[Miloch]

I think Caedwyr might've missed this due to cross-posting. Staff restriction doesn't make a lot of sense to me either.

It would make more sense to restrict this kit from using edged (bloodletting) weapons, rather than blunts. I don't know if you can use the cleric's usability flags though... that might actually make them more powerful, since it'd let them use maces, flails and the like.

[Caedwyr]

Yeah, I'd misssed that. Also, using the cleric weapon restrictions would actually give the kit more weapons available rather than less (they can't use daggers now, but can instead use maces, flails, staves, clubs)

 

I agree that a staff restriction doesn't really make much sense for the kit.

 

I guess, another consideration is where in the game I would have the kitting take place. If this occurs later in the game, then having the player's current xp set to zero and a series of hefty xp penalties that increase as he levels up might be sufficient. I'd prefer to work it in to an existing dialogue for an existing character rather than creating a new NPC to do the honours.

[Guest John]

Sorry for what seems obvious, but I don't see exactly how the xp penalty works in the game. I'm trying to visualize it.

 

Are xp rewards reduced? Is the progression table for this kit changed? What happens to the character's existing xp when he takes the kit? Is it a choice that must/should be made immediately or can he come back later?

 

I'm unclear on the mechanics here.

 

As to getting the kit, logical possibilities once in Athkatla would seem to be the Cowled Wizard license vendor, Ribald, perhaps Lady Yuth, or, because of the divine elements, the head of the Temple of Lathander or maybe Radiant Heart order. All of those have the advantage of being immediately accessible. Or it seems reasonable to me plot wise to tie it in to the mage stronghold quest. In Irenicus' dungeon, you used that genie for the geomantic sorcerer; could you use him for this kit as well? Just some thoughts.

 

John

[Caedwyr]

In the geomantic sorcerer kit and in general, the 15% experience penalty means that the total experience the player has for that character is multiplied by 0.85 and then the result is displayed in their current experience. By varying the experience penalty, you can simulate additional progression tables in addition to the ones available to the existing classes without affecting the existing classes. When the experience penalty is applied (you gain the kit), the current total experience that character has is multiplied and the new total applied. This means that you may go below the necessary experience to obtain that level, but it won't delevel you. You can see this happen with the geomantic sorcerer if you get enough experience to get your sorcerer up to level 9, and then upon getting the kit, be bumped down below the needed experience for level 9.

 

I haven't worked out the exact dialogue yet, but I'm looking for someone who talks of higher philosophical type enlightenment. Somewhere in the temple district might work. To work the kit's experience related penalty into the mix, I may want the kit to only be obtainable in Chapter 6. The dialogue would be a bit more explicit about what you will receive and what it will cost than the Geomantic Sorcerer kit. You'll be able to come back later if you don't choose to take the kit at first. Similar to the geomantic sorcerer kit, there will be an item you can CLUAConsole in to apply the kit as well.

 

In the case of the Geomantic Sorcerer, I wanted to imply that it was more of an inborn affinity rather than something that was taught or learned, hence the method I used to introduce the kit.

 

I currently do not have a copy of BG1 (my old discs went bad, and I've got some super pack including BG1, BG2, expansions, IWD, IWD2 and several more on order), so I've been unable to do the ingame intergration of my kits with Tutu like I want.

[Mike1072]

Yeah, I'd misssed that. Also, using the cleric weapon restrictions would actually give the kit more weapons available rather than less (they can't use daggers now, but can instead use maces, flails, staves, clubs)

Actually, adding the cleric weapon restrictions in will only disallow weapons, not ever allow more. It might make sense to not be able to use bladed weapons for the kit, but balance-wise, this isn't a huge loss for mages.

[Caedwyr]

Ah, good point. However, won't mixing cleric unusables with mage unusables mean that the character cannot use robes either, since clerics cannot use robes or is it more permissive than that?

[Mike1072]

Ah, good point. However, won't mixing cleric unusables with mage unusables mean that the character cannot use robes either, since clerics cannot use robes or is it more permissive than that?

Might have a point there. There's your new disadvantage!

 

Edit: Actually, I can't recall exactly how all of the cross-unusabilities work right now. Your best bet is to try it out.

[Guest John]

Thanks for the explanation. So, if I read it correctly, the XP penalty is a one-time reduction, and XP earned after that point is added to one's total with no penalty (% reduction). Cool. For awhile there, I was thinking you were planning that the character would receive a penalty on XP each time he should receive XP and/or that you were creating a new progression table just for this kit.

 

Wish I could help you with the question about where to pick up the kit; no one comes to mind.

 

John

[Nythrun]

You can't use the True-class Cleric unusabilities with a mage kit.

 

You can borrow one one the cleric kits unusability flags (say, Priest of Lathander) but those flags are often unset in items that are already restricted from clerics, as they'd be redundant.

 

Nothing a regexp patch can't sort out.

[Caedwyr]

Just to clarify John, your current XP is always modified by the modifier. So as soon as the 0.85 modifier is applied, all existing XP and all future XP is multiplied by the modifier before it is shown. The XP penalty persists.

 

The nice thing about this, is you can use varying XP penalties and bonuses to simulate a different XP table than the parent class normally receives.

[Guest John]

Oh. OK, so the XP is modified each time XP is awarded going forward from when the character changed to the new kit.

 

First question, when the game indicates that such and such monster yielded # of XP, is that number before or after modification because of the kit XP penalty?

 

Assuming the reward is the XP before any adjustment, then my second question is, Is the XP adjustment applied only to the specific character or to all members in the group? For example, say you have a 4 person group that is awarded 4000 XP for defeating a monster. If no kit-based XP penalties were involved, each character would receive 1000 XP as their share. However, if the character is ktted as this mage, then the pc would receive 850 XP and the other three npcs would receive 1000 XP.

 

Thanks for your patience.

 

John

[Caedwyr]

The xp that is announced is the total that is then divided between team members. The penalty is applied only to the single character with the penalty on his share of the experience. This means, the character with the Geomantic Sorcerer kit for example, will progress slower than the other characters.

 

So, yes, the character kitted with the 15% xp penalty will receive 850 XP and the rest will receive 1000 XP.