Fyorl Posted December 12, 2007 Author Share Posted December 12, 2007 Hmm you all make some valid points. Yes, memory-loss is a bit cliché and if I re-work that then there isn't any need to make her a Bhaalspawn (memory loss was caused by Irenicus experimenting on her). But that means I'm back to square one. Having Tamoko as a Bhaalspawn was the reason for getting her in that dungeon in the first place. If we take that away then I need another reason for having her in that dungeon or, as Evaine Dian suggested, having her come in after Yoshimo's death. It would be nice to get a decent character at that point instead of a rather under-powered Imoen (but dammit I feel so guilty leaving her behind) but I'd prefer to have her from the beginning. So I think the best bet is to take Rabain and sisterpatrick's ideas: After the Protagonist mortally wounds Tamoko (or she runs off) Irenicus can swoop in and capture her before Yoshimo gets there. Irenicus captures her because of her knowledge of the Bhaalspawn (hanging around with Sarevok for so long). He would then have a run-in with Yoshimo who's just managed to track her down to Baldur's Gate (perhaps to bring her back to Kara-Tur? I may need some more backstory to this effect but I'm sure I can think of something). Irenicus realises Yoshimo's usefulness as a spy and uses his control over Tamoko to force Yoshimo to submit to the Geas. Once that's sorted, I need to think about the interactions between the two. I can't have Tamoko knowing about all of this because then she can tell the Protagonist about Yoshimo and so they won't want him in their party. One idea is to perhaps have Irenicus put Tamoko into some sort of permanent stasis (so she can be found in the room full of jars?) until Yoshimo completes his task. It means Irenicus doesn't have to worry about Yoshimo trying to rescue her for fear of breaking the stasis and killing her and also he need not worry about Tamoko trying to escape. All very convenient for him and consequently to the plot. Yoshimo will obviously realise who Tamoko is but won't say anything because he has a mission to complete and Tamoko can be broken out of stasis during the chaos at the start (I could even have her fighting one of those Mephits in the jar room). The other option is to have Yoshimo and Tamoko in on it together but I think that's far less dramatic and I think with the above option I'd have more to work with. EDIT: It also means less messing around with Yoshimo as he will have to pretend to be unaffected by Tamoko's presence. Obviously I'll add in some extra banters between the two with maybe some hints at their relationship: Yoshimo: Ah, Tamo you haven't changed a bit. Tamoko: I'm sorry, what? Yoshimo: Er, ah... of course, I mean since we first met. Yes. You haven't changed despite my excellent tutelage - you still swing that sword around like a baboon would a stick. Link to comment
Caedwyr Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Yoshimo joins with Irenicus to help find his sister, and submits to a geas under those terms. Meanwhile, Irenicus being an evil genius and all, already has/goes out and gets Tamoko and hides her away in another part of Chateau Irenicus, unknown to Yoshimo, who continues to work for Irenicus in return for help in finding Tamoko. Player finds Tamoko prior to meeting Yoshimo in an area of the dungeon that Yoshimo doesn't have access to. Alternatively, throw Tamoko in Spellhold as one of the inmates. Yoshimo may or may not know that she is here depending on how you want to write it. Jon can be either involved or not involved in her being there. Antics ensue. Link to comment
Choo Choo Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 However, if Tamoko was in the party from the beginning and aware of who she is, that'd also make for nice emotional distress for Tamoko, especially if Yoshimo was to tell her and her alone about the geas and his plans. It'd be extra hard for her if she was romancing the PC. You know, even if Yoshimo knows that the PC didn't kill his sister or anything.. he's still under that geas. And he's mortally afraid to die. Afraid enough to betray someone so that he might save his own skin? Why, perhaps. It'd make for some interesting tensions in the party. She'd be torn between protecting her brother and his secret, aiding him, and doing what she knows is right and opposing him (and save her friend/lover). He'd be torn between his fear of death and his friendship with <CHARNAME>. I'd love to see her reaction in ToB if Sarevok joins up.. Link to comment
sisterpatrick Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 What about something like age difference? If Yoshimo was a young child when Tamoko left home, she wouldn't be likely to recognise him. He could be travelling under a pseudonym - it would suit his character. I don't mean to railroad your story, just trying to come up with simple ideas so you don't end up getting bogged down by the setup, and can enjoy writing the story it sounds like you want. You talked about Tamoko's character and how she would handle a relationship (friend/romance) with another Bhaalspawn - it sounds really cool. She's quite a sad character in BGI. Link to comment
Rabain Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Why not just dump the memory loss altogether. If both Yoshimo and Tamoko know each other its not a problem, afterall Tamoko doesn't have to know Yoshimo is under a geas. Why would having his sister back be any reason for Yoshimo to behave any different to the way he does without her? If he believe charname was strong enough to defeat Irenicus then he would have told charname of the geas in the main storyline. Tamoko is taken by Irenicus because of her link to bhaalspawn...perhaps she knows of the whereabouts of others...enter charname...Irenicus threatens Yoshimo with Tamoko's death when he tries to infiltrate Chateau Irenicus...Yoshimo submits to geas...Tamoko is not aware of the geas. When charname and Yoshimo meet Tamoko in CI Yoshimo has to keep his mouth shut...both in fear of Irenicus and because of the geas. You don't have to change anything after that. Perhaps the banters between Yoshimo and Tamoko could be twinged with regret on Yoshimo's behalf and she is confused at a brother who used to be so full of life is now so full of sorrow but otherwise the plot can play out as normal. Link to comment
Guest Guest Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Thanks for that guys. I've got plenty of ideas now to get started with this Mod and I'm sure I can make it not suck. I may have to use some artistic licence with Tamoko's personality because there's very little to go on. I'll work out what I can from the big conversation at the end of BGI and some of the stuff from the book (if I can find it again). I think the main personality I'll go for is a discliplined, realist Tamoko. I don't want to make her evil because I really don't think she is. The topic Miloch linked me to has her as LN so I'll probably go with that, it makes sense to me. Also, I think she's got a Viciona streak in that she's attracted to strength (hello Sarevok - also suits her position as a cleric to a deity of war) which should play a part in the Romance and banter/quest decisions. I was tempted to make her ruthless in the sort of "it's a harsh world, helping people only makes them weak" way but I think now I'll tone that down a bit. I think since she was never truly evil that she perhaps regrets some of the things she did while involved with Sarevok and so now may be more compassionate. This does push her in the 'Good' direction more and I don't want to exclude evil protagonists so I think having her personality subtley affected by the party's alignment could work well. It'll involve more writing for me but I think it's probably worth it to make a nice NPC. The fact that she's influenced by the protagonist quite considerably could take away from her 'inner strength, independant' trait but I think that it is just one of her personality flaws - that she's easily influenced by strong leaders. Link to comment
Fyorl Posted December 13, 2007 Author Share Posted December 13, 2007 Whoops, that was actually my post up there but I forgot to log in. Actually, instead of basing her dialogues on the party's overall alignment I think it'd be better to work on Reputation (or Virtue if available). Link to comment
DavidW Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Quick observation: some Bhaalspawn can be raised (Imoen is the obvious example). And you probably want Tamoko to be raisable in any case, otherwise she'll be very annoying to have in the party. Link to comment
Miloch Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 I'll work out what I can from the big conversation at the end of BGI and some of the stuff from the book (if I can find it again). I think the main personality I'll go for is a discliplined, realist Tamoko. I don't want to make her evil because I really don't think she is. The topic Miloch linked me to has her as LN so I'll probably go with that, it makes sense to me. From what I understand, the book may not be the best source, but here's her profile I was referring to (also written by the book's author Philip Athans though). I've interposed her stats from BG and from her "apparition" in BG2 in brackets. Tamoko11th-Level Human Ninja Shadow Warrior [bG1: 10th-Level Cleric] [bG2 Apparition: 20th-Level Kensai] STRENGTH - 17 [17, 18/50] DEXTERITY - 18 [17] CONSTITUTION - 14 [15, 16] INTELLIGENCE - 12 [13, 9] WISDOM - 10 [17, 12] CHARISMA - 15 [16, 14] AC - 3 THACO - 10 [14, 1] HIT POINTS - 49 [70, 170] ALIGNMENT - Lawful neutral [Neutral evil] SPECIAL ATTACKS - Backstab damage x 4, 2 attacks/round SPECIAL DEFENSES - Nil SIZE - M (5'3") Nonweapon Proficiencies: Blind-fighting, Endurance (16), EtiÂÂquette (15), Jumping (18), Modern Language - Common (12), Running (8), Tumbling (18) Weapon Proficiencies: Katana (specialized), Ninjutsu (specialÂÂized), Ninja-to Thieving Skills: Pick Pockets 25%, Open Locks 25%, Find/Remove Traps 30%, Move Silently 95%, Hide in Shadows 95%, Detect Noise 65%, Climb Walls 85%, Read Languages 20% Appearance: Tamoko is a small Kozakuran woman with impressive hidden strength. In backward areas of Faerun she's often mistaken for an elf, but the resemblance is superficial at best. Her long, straight hair is as black as pitch, and her skin is soft and smooth, unblemished by scars. She dresses in a simple black silk bodysuit that she can adjust to go from loose and blousy to form-fitting. She never wears metal armor and has no jewelry or any reflective surÂÂfaces on her person except the blade of her extraordinary, curved sword. She wears soft-soled black sandles or no shoes at all. Sewn into the collar of her night-suit is a masked hood that, when she chooses to wear it, covers all but her eyes. Magical Items: The black silk night-suit was a gift from her clan master and acts like a robe of protection +3. Her katana +3 is one of the finest ever crafted by the swordsmiths of Kozakura. Background: Tamoko was born in 1350 DR in the village of Kiraan on the west coast of the island of Mikedono. The third of three girls, she was sold by her disappointed father to the Kon ishi Clan, who noticed a raw talent in the four-year-old Tamoko and her sister. The girls were trained in the art of ninjutsu at the Konishi Clan dojo in the mountains east of Chimotoge. Both took to the training well, and Tamoko grew to become a ninja of note, bringing honor and respect to her clan. One night, Tamoko was sent to kill a high-ranking wu jen. Somehow the wu jen was forewarned of her coming. Tamoko not only failed to kill him but was surprised by his magic. She was pushed into a dimensional portal that opened into a madÂÂ-house on an island near the Amnian city of Athkatla. She escaped the island and disappeared into the city. Fearing the retribution of her dishonored clan as well as the wrathful wu jen, Tamoko fled the city and headed north. By the time she reached Baldur's Gate, she was working as an assasÂÂsin and had begun to attract the attention of several of the more dangerous power groups-including the Iron Throne. Eventually, Tamoko met Sarevok, who became her teacher, lover and employer. She has lived with him in a labyrinth of passages, tunnels and rooms under the city of Baldur's Gate ever since. She wishes she could return home but knows she has lost her honor, so she has devoted herself to Sarevok. Roleplaying Notes: Tamoko is a highly trained assassin - a killing machine of the first order. She is, even after her years of service to Sarevok, a professional. Tamoko speaks with a thick accent and speaks little, and then very slowly. This is as much a part of her training and practiced calm as it is a discomfort with the Common tongue of Faerun, which is a language she's still learning. If Tamoko is pressed into a fight she didn't initiate, she disÂÂappears into the darkness at her first opportunity. She never allows herself to be at a disadvantage in combat. If she is sent to kill, she appears suddenly, kills quickly, then disappears again. -From Dragon #262 I'm sure you can find a better portrait than that, or have someone over at SHS draw one. I'm not crazy about the portrait BG1 NPC gives her either. Doesn't really look Kozakuran (i.e., Japanese) for one thing. I'm prepared to believe she could've started out as an assassin who dualed to a cleric after she "rediscovered her faith" later on. This would fit her profile above better, though you could of course come up with another. It would also explain how she's just a cleric in BG1 - because she hasn't passed her original assassin level yet. That could've been 10 or 11, so she'll show up in BG2 as a fully dualed cleric/assassin, or gain her assassin abilities back shortly thereafter. She'll need a 17 Wisdom for that (which she has in BG1) and she can't get a specialty cleric kit, though she can still be a cleric of Hachiman. For her to use a katana as a cleric/assassin, you'll have to include or require an "Allow cleric/thieves to use thief weapons" component, such as in Level 1 NPCs. Link to comment
Fyorl Posted December 13, 2007 Author Share Posted December 13, 2007 That's great thanks. Reading that I think you may be right that the book is not the best source. For starters she apparently doesn't have any brothers according to that and neither does she wear metal armour. Anyway, your post does sort of scream 'assassin/cleric' so I think it would be best to go with that, it makes sense to me. The 'allow cleric/thieves to use thief weapons' could be copied from another mod and included in case the user hasn't already got it? (should I perhaps do that with Virtue too? I think maybe that would be taking choice away from the user). Otherwise perhaps I could take the functionality from it and implement it in a way that is only available to Tamoko? Although I think that it would be difficult without trampling over some item usability flags. As for a portrait, the voice actor I have in mind also happens to be a very talented artist Link to comment
the bigg Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Yes, I did see that but I seem to remember it not working properly or working badly (I think the filenames weren't encased in quotes and so failed when it came across anything with a space or something) How so? Did you work with WeiDU version 190 or something? IIRC, it has always been written in OCaml and thus not having quoting problems per se. Also, using tolower kills NearInfinity because it uses the chitin.key for the filenames and because it's Java it's case-sensitive on Linux. use the tolower diff for NI. Link to comment
Miloch Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 That's great thanks. Reading that I think you may be right that the book is not the best source. For starters she apparently doesn't have any brothers according to that and neither does she wear metal armour.I'm patching BG1/Tutu to give her that robe, or something similar, instead of the plate mail. It makes more sense for her. And the profile doesn't say that she doesn't have any brothers - it just says she and her sisters were sold to another clan. Female children weren't valued very highly in some ancient (and perhaps modern) Asian cultures. Any brothers she had would've been brought up by the parents, so this is perhaps another plot line for your mod - she and her brother have been separated most of their lives.The 'allow cleric/thieves to use thief weapons' could be copied from another mod and included in case the user hasn't already got it?Yes, that's fairly easy, and I think Nythrun already agreed to it for another mod I'm doing that uses a component in L1NPCs. But go ahead and ask her again if you want to be polite . As for Virtue, I don't know - it depends on what you want to do... I'm not too familiar with it. You might just want to look at the code, pinch bits from it and implement your own... standard operating procedure. If you're just talking about making items so only Tamoko can use them - that's fairly easy to hack. You just set the usability flags so someone would have to have pretty much her exact stats to use the item... alignment, wisdom and so on. As for a portrait, the voice actor I have in mind also happens to be a very talented artist That's great. Can she also do an Asian accent? Link to comment
Rabain Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 I started a Tamoko mod a long while back at BWL, the forum is removed now. I have some of the work in a hidden forum at my new site but not much. There was not much content at BWL originally except some discussion on kit, alignment and portrait! All I have remaining is the portrait, several versions were made: Armour Tamoko: Tamoko no armour: Link to comment
Fyorl Posted December 14, 2007 Author Share Posted December 14, 2007 Yes, that's fairly easy, and I think Nythrun already agreed to it for another mod I'm doing that uses a component in L1NPCs. But go ahead and ask her again if you want to be polite smile But of course ^_^ That's great. Can she also do an Asian accent? Since you mentioned it she is actually half-japanese so all the dialogue could actually be spoken in Japanese with various language subtitles. Or french or german for that matter =D I started a Tamoko mod a long while back at BWL, the forum is removed now. I have some of the work in a hidden forum at my new site but not much. Ah I had no idea, one of the reasons I started this thread was to check no-one was already making one. Is it a dead project? Because if not I'll happily stop and let you carry on? Link to comment
Rabain Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 It's dead, I'd love to do it...really but don't have the time or commitment to even say I'm doing one...hence the hidden forum (just to keep the data...for when I retire in 30 years or so ). Work away! Link to comment
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