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Tamoko Mod


Fyorl

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the only thing I said she has to be is to be Yoshimo's sister (everybody seems to like it anyway, right?). Kara-Tur seems to be FR equivalent of Japan, and assassins in Japan were called ninja. I just hardly see how she "got religion". Also, I have an imperssion that she should advance as assassin in BG2, not as cleric, it better fits her, but if there would be a good story explaining the contrary, nobody will object. Anyway, to me it seems that implementing a kit is way faster than writing dialogs and quests (well, I hadn't try it myself).

 

In our country, school exams are finalizing right now, does anybody know when they are finished in German?

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I just hardly see how she "got religion".
Happens to people all the time. I'm sure Fyorl could come up with any of a dozen reasons how it happened. Maybe Hachiman himself appeared to her in a vision, who knows.
Also, I have an imperssion that she should advance as assassin in BG2, not as cleric, it better fits her, but if there would be a good story explaining the contrary, nobody will object.
The story in the published materials is that as an assassin in Kara-Tur, Tamoko was sent to kill a high-ranking wu jen who portaled her to an island near Athkatla, from where she eventually made it to Baldur's Gate. A stranger in a strange land where she did not even speak the language, she attempted to find guidance in the faith of her ancestors. Powergaming aside, the assassin > cleric dual works better with the story than vice versa. If you're going to do it the other way around, you not only have to rewrite the story, but you have to come up with a convincing reason of how she could've had enough time to dual from cleric to assassin and gain enough experience to match her previous cleric levels in the short interval between BG1 and BG2. Inter-game consistency may not have been that important to the developers, but that doesn't mean a mod should ignore it. Incidentally, this mod will include a component that lets cleric/thieves (cleric/assassins, cleric/ninja, whatever) use katanas and such, if that's your objection.
Anyway, to me it seems that implementing a kit is way faster than writing dialogs and quests (well, I hadn't try it myself).
Yes, but that's not the objection - like I said, there are too many kits, and some folks won't even install NPCs with custom kits.
In our country, school exams are finalizing right now, does anybody know when they are finished in German?
I don't think he was doing exams in Germany - he was going there for holidays afterwards, but I could be wrong.
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The story in the published materials is that as an assassin in Kara-Tur, Tamoko was sent to kill a high-ranking wu jen who portaled her to an island near Athkatla, from where she eventually made it to Baldur's Gate. A stranger in a strange land where she did not even speak the language, she attempted to find guidance in the faith of her ancestors.

you mean the novell by Ethans, or are there any other materials?

 

Inter-game consistency may not have been that important to the developers, but that doesn't mean a mod should ignore it. Incidentally, this mod will include a component that lets cleric/thieves (cleric/assassins, cleric/ninja, whatever) use katanas and such, if that's your objection.

nah, I'd try this mod even if she was a druid=) - I have more interest in story, these are not objections but just my point of view.

 

I don't think he was doing exams in Germany - he was going there for holidays afterwards, but I could be wrong.

ah yes, I seem to be confused.

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The story in the published materials is that as an assassin in Kara-Tur, Tamoko was sent to kill a high-ranking wu jen who portaled her to an island near Athkatla, from where she eventually made it to Baldur's Gate. A stranger in a strange land where she did not even speak the language, she attempted to find guidance in the faith of her ancestors.
you mean the novell by Ethans, or are there any other materials?
I'm referring to the Dragon magazine profile on Tamoko from this post. Yes, Athans also wrote the article, but between that and the games, that's what we have for "canon" on Tamoko. I think this mod should attempt to address any inconsistencies therein rather than try to come up with something completely different that contradicts even BG1, but that's just my view.

 

Incidentally, the article has her as a "ninja shadow warrior assassin" whatever the f^%& that is. If she can be kitted as an assassin, she can be kitted as a custom ninja shadow warrior before dualing to cleric, unless we go the other way and give her a specialty cleric kit. I'm not fussy about that - I just think any custom kit should be an optional component and therefore not specifically referenced in dialogue (but she can still describe herself as a "ninja" which translates to "assassin" on the Sword Coast).

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Assassin-cleric looks fine to me. I am one of those folks that are content with the in-game kits :) I do like the idea that she is Yoshimo's sister, but it adds a whole lot of levels of complexity to the story and dialogues. In particular, the Bhaalspawn wiping out both the love of her life and her brother ends up in a very tough to justify situation. I frankly can't really see her siding with BS to kill Yoshimo. And it is tough to believe that Yoshimo betrays his sister, though her life can be a part of his deal with Irenicus. While I am not fond of the 'kidnap' quests, that could be a good place to foresefully remove her from the party and teleport her somewhere far far away to be found later in the game.

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Uh... I'm still here. My last exam is actually on the 19th of June and I'm not exactly going on holiday to Germany. I'm au-pairing there for a year.

 

I actually accidently trashed my computer recently for reasons I won't go into. But at least it means I can setup Baldur's Gate 2 for modding. I've written a few notes concerning the mod too. I still don't really have time to get right into the mod yet because of exams, programming commissions and writing for a manga but time will appear soon enough and I really appreciate all the comments here.

 

Can I just ask if there's any sort of consensus over where Tamoko should appear? I'm leaning towards her jumping in at the battle with Irenicus in Chapter 6. It means I don't need to worry about her travelling around with Yoshimo. It does mean that you get her quite late but I think it's outweighed by the general coolness factor of having her appear at that point. I think the story should come first over any concerns about how long you get to have her around in the party.

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Guest Guest_kuraiken_*
Assassin-cleric looks fine to me. I am one of those folks that are content with the in-game kits :) I do like the idea that she is Yoshimo's sister, but it adds a whole lot of levels of complexity to the story and dialogues. In particular, the Bhaalspawn wiping out both the love of her life and her brother ends up in a very tough to justify situation. I frankly can't really see her siding with BS to kill Yoshimo. And it is tough to believe that Yoshimo betrays his sister, though her life can be a part of his deal with Irenicus. While I am not fond of the 'kidnap' quests, that could be a good place to foresefully remove her from the party and teleport her somewhere far far away to be found later in the game.

Hm.

 

I tend to prefer Tamoko joining about half-way through. There are a lot of quests throughout BG2 that might profit from a little bit tamokoness.

The two main reasons are:

1.) If you play the Tamoko mod, you usually do it because you want to play with her, agreed? Of course.

Thus it's natural that people want to be able to spend a lot time traveling through BG2 with Tamoko.

Adding her very early might solve that, but in the beginning there's so much joining, so much going on, there's no time for Tamoko.

2.) She needs time and space to develope. To tell her story, to get used to the party. We all know she's going to see Sarevok in BG2 TOB so there should be a buildup.

A lot of modders are so focused on brining one character into the game, that quite often it seems out of place. Just imagine, suddenly you find 32 additional characters in the Irenicus dungeon. They've been partying there all along, waiting for the opportunity to join the fun. Hell yeah.

Not.

Personally I would put it after Spellhood (see the suggestion of Spellhoodjoining) but before Sunda.

In Sunda things are at a quick pace, there's so much going on and you're eager to beat Ironycus through the seven hells and then some. Not really the time to make up with an old enemy, let her join you and fight Idioticus.

 

Personally, I'm all against Tamoko simply joining like every other NPC throughout the galaxy. Haven't got a thief? The next one's waiting around there corner. There's the cleric, he's got everything packed and ready. And that warrior over there is eager to join anyway since he really has nothing to do unless there's someone clever enough to tell him.

Think about her situation. She's supposed to trust and join the group of people that killed the man she had devoted her life to? Well, that's not a job done over night.

Indeed, I'm all in favor of complications. Logical complications mind you, but complications none the less. Make it difficult, challenging, complicated.

Tamoko and the PC share a history together, use that to create a story that draws people into it.

 

As for Tamoko joining the party:

I think we can exclude the beginning.

We also should exclude the parts where major developements already take place.

This might also exclude my previous suggestion, which however does not change the fact that Tamoko generally should join *after* Spellhood, since we don't want her to meet Yoshi, cruel beings we are indeed.

She might have pursued your party looking for clues what happend to Yoshimo and where he is (for example the cowled cows might have burned spellhood or cleansed it after what happened) and well, you have to think about when to break the news to her that Yoshi is somewhat dead, more then partially by your doing. Which just MIGHT not be exactly the great news she liked to hear, and she most defineately will not just hate Ironingcus. Yes, that is the complication we are all too eager to face.

 

As for wether Tamoko is romancable by the PC I would prefer it to be optional, but not center of the mod. I think Sarvi and Tami should have some space to develope, their story has been mostly only outlined.

 

I suggest to approach the mod by creating Tamoko as an NPC, write a summary of her character and what kind of a person she is. Her history, what she likes and dislikes, etc.

Then decide where she has to join and then think up ways that might explain why she's there. From there on you can backtrack to flesh out her past and walk forward to decide where the major events will be during the BG2-BG2TOB timeline are. Once that is settled you can think about what kind of interactions she should have with the party, romances that fit into the story you designed, banters, and in the end at which quests she should jump in and leave a comment or discuss something.

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Hmm, thanks for the post, lots of thing to think about. One thing I will comment on is the difficulty of knowing how the PCs handled Tamoko in BG1. In BG1, the end segment is fairly linear but you do have some dialogue choices which boil down to trusting Tamoko or not. Also, right before the final battle, if you choose your words carefully (I haven't done it recently but I remember having a hell of a time managing it) you can get Tamoko to walk away from a final confrontation with you.

 

So it could be that Tamoko is quite happy to join up since you didn't kill/leave her for dead at the end of BG1. Or you could have happily cut her down and so it warrants a bit of hostility.

 

Basically what I'm saying is that it's not certain that she will mistrust the PC or have a problem with joining up with him/her. The way she was treated in BG1 will heavily affect her attitude towards the PC in BG2 since those few times (aside from the flame arrow incident) were the only times she directly interacted with the PC.

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Guest Guest_kuraiken_*
Hmm, thanks for the post, lots of thing to think about. One thing I will comment on is the difficulty of knowing how the PCs handled Tamoko in BG1. In BG1, the end segment is fairly linear but you do have some dialogue choices which boil down to trusting Tamoko or not. Also, right before the final battle, if you choose your words carefully (I haven't done it recently but I remember having a hell of a time managing it) you can get Tamoko to walk away from a final confrontation with you.

 

So it could be that Tamoko is quite happy to join up since you didn't kill/leave her for dead at the end of BG1. Or you could have happily cut her down and so it warrants a bit of hostility.

 

Basically what I'm saying is that it's not certain that she will mistrust the PC or have a problem with joining up with him/her. The way she was treated in BG1 will heavily affect her attitude towards the PC in BG2 since those few times (aside from the flame arrow incident) were the only times she directly interacted with the PC.

 

Well, I wouldn't call it happy. Back then she realized that Savi was on his way to his own destruction. That's why it was possible to persuade her to step away, because she had realized that her decision would not affect wether Savi would live or die, but rather how many people would die before he would be brought down by one of the countless enemies he had made.

Tamoko always supported Savi, even when he started to favour that other girl-thingy.

But Savi did so much damage that he must have had countless enemies, and he surley wasn't the only man of the swordcoast who had big plans. In time, even if charname hand't defeated Savi, others would have done or tried that. I think that's what Tamoko knew and that's why in the end, she did not defend him before the final encounter. Because she knew that even if she did, she would only delay his defeat and prolong the suffering of the common people.

 

So even though she stepped back, I don't think she's happy that you killed Savi.

Sometimes people have to make decisions of which neither brings happyness.

 

Which is however a point that can be argued over. And it's of course a very important point in determing what kind of a character Tamoko had.

 

People don't change sides quickly, their decisions may, but their loyalty walks slowly. That's why nowadays people of all kind of sorts try to bind others with money, safety, or feelings.

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Personally I would put it after Spellhood (see the suggestion of Spellhoodjoining) but before Sunda.

yes, Brynnlaw seems to be th best place by general opinion.

Think about her situation. She's supposed to trust and join the group of people that killed the man she had devoted her life to? Well, that's not a job done over night.

Indeed, I'm all in favor of complications. Logical complications mind you, but complications none the less. Make it difficult, challenging, complicated.

Tamoko and the PC share a history together, use that to create a story that draws people into it.

right, it's exactly what I was talking about!

 

She might have pursued your party looking for clues what happend to Yoshimo and where he is (for example the cowled cows might have burned spellhood or cleansed it after what happened) and well, you have to think about when to break the news to her that Yoshi is somewhat dead, more then partially by your doing. Which just MIGHT not be exactly the great news she liked to hear, and she most defineately will not just hate Ironingcus. Yes, that is the complication we are all too eager to face.

but why is she looking for Yoshimo at the first place?

 

Hmm, thanks for the post, lots of thing to think about. One thing I will comment on is the difficulty of knowing how the PCs handled Tamoko in BG1. In BG1, the end segment is fairly linear but you do have some dialogue choices which boil down to trusting Tamoko or not. Also, right before the final battle, if you choose your words carefully (I haven't done it recently but I remember having a hell of a time managing it) you can get Tamoko to walk away from a final confrontation with you.

I don't think there's much that you can do here (well, in BGT it would be very possible, but you can't rely on it). IMHO the best way to handle it would be just like it's done with original Bioware NPC ("Edwin? Aren't you dead?"). The possibility to roleplay is there, and it's up to player what he chooses.

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Keep in mind Yoshimo and Tamoko aren't necessarily going to recognise each other, since (according to the published profile at least) Tamoko was separated from her family at a very young age.

 

And yeah, there's not much you can do about knowing how the PC handled Tamoko in BG1, which goes for any BG1 NPCs. Tamoko might respect the PC's actions regardless of the outcome - the PC was doing what he or she had to do. There are plenty of hints about this in the BG1 dialogue ("You have... you have done what you must, I suppose. Sarevok knows of my treachery, you know..."). Also, Tamoko actually wants the PC to kill her at this point ("I have but two duties, and both leave me little hope.") though the PC can refuse. Either way, it seems she has a strong sense of duty, and respects that in the PC's actions as well.

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Hmm, you have a point there Miloch. Maybe instead of messing around trying to figure out how Tamoko views the PCs based on previous actions it wouldn't be out-of-character to have her accept whatever they did as being necessary. I guess more work needs to be done on her personality. There's so little to go on that I'll definitely have to use some artistic licence but hopefully too many won't disagree.

 

The advantage of the above is that Tamoko starts from the same point with every PC, regardless of their actions previously. Still, I would like to think she would hold the party in higher regard if they didn't try to kill her.

 

I don't think there's much that you can do here (well, in BGT it would be very possible, but you can't rely on it). IMHO the best way to handle it would be just like it's done with original Bioware NPC ("Edwin? Aren't you dead?"). The possibility to roleplay is there, and it's up to player what he chooses.

 

I was thinking of ways to do it tastefully since I never really liked the way it's done with the other NPCs. The idea I'm toying with at the moment is having a sort of 'flashback' cut-scene once you meet Tamoko which basically sends the party to the door of the Temple of Bhaal at the end of BG1 where the final confrontation with her is (am I correct in thinking I can just copy the area from the BG1 data to use?). Then I imagined having Tamoko do a monologue dictating the actions of the PC up 'till and just after that point but with the dialogue choices filling in the gaps:

 

Tamoko: We first spoke on the cobbled streets of Baldur's Gate - you, caught in the web of Sarevok's deceit and on the run from the Flaming Fist and I with no-one left to turn to. I asked to speak with you further outside the Flaming Fist compound. You were right to distrust me, after all, I was party to Gorion's death.

 

PC:-

1. And so I was. You were clearly sent by Sarevok to deceive me further, when I was most vulnerable. I would be a fool to meet you outside of the Flaming Fist compound.

2. And so I was. You were clearly sent by Sarevok to deceive me further, when I was most vulnerable. But still, the trap was too obvious. Sarevok couldn't have been behind it. I went to meet you despite my distrust.

3. But I didn't did I? Even after all I had been through and your part in it I still gave you a chance. I agreed to meet you outside the Flaming Fist compound.

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The idea I'm toying with at the moment is having a sort of 'flashback' cut-scene once you meet Tamoko which basically sends the party to the door of the Temple of Bhaal at the end of BG1 where the final confrontation with her is (am I correct in thinking I can just copy the area from the BG1 data to use?).
There'd be a little more to it than just copying the .are file, but it's doable. Still, it seems like a lot of work for little gain. Like I said, you don't know how the PC handled Tamoko in BG1, and given her sense of duty, it may not matter too much. It's probably best not to try to reconstruct what happened in BG1 and instead just start with a fresh slate in BG2.
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I would lean in favor of assuming that PC promissed not to kill Sarevok, Tamoko walked out alive, and go from there. It's just my opinion, of course, but conveniently ressurected characters don't excite me that much, and not killing her, and yet not fulfilling the promise makes for an interesting beginning.

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