Spell Revisions Mod

[DavidW]

DavidW already implemented them with the exception of Confusion. I've already suggested to add confusion too to him.

 

Actually they already use Confusion in SCS II.

 

Balors:

Stoneskin, Fire Storm, Implosion, once per day each.

Teleport without Error, Remove Magic, Telekinesis, Symbol: Stun, Symbol: Death, and Domination, all at will.

Permanently wreathed in flames (Fire Shield effect)

 

Glabrezus:

Teleport without Error, Mirror Image, and Remove Magic, at will

Power Word: Stun, Unholy Blight, and Confusion, all at will

 

Looking at the script, mind, they aren't that likely to use it... if you're not seeing it in practice, I might tweak the numbers.

 

I can't remember exactly how I worked out demons' powers - I think it was some sort of mixture of 2nd and 3rd edition. (BG2 itself is kind-of-transitional, with spells like Unholy Blight creeping into an overall 2nd edition ruleset). And I think I had some time for the vanilla game's internal choices - e.g. I think Marilith pro/magic weapons is specific to BG2.

[monster]

Impressive. Any date when this mod will be released? if it isn't yet

[Demivrgvs]

Impressive. Any date when this mod will be released? if it isn't yet

Thanks, well except one summoned creature (the Nymph) and one or two spells the mod would be ready (at least for an open beta). I've some testers looking for typos and minor mistakes but it's fully playable and stable. I'd love to be hosted here at G3 if i can and i've asked via PM to CamDawg what should i do because i'm quite a newbie.

Anyway if anyone wants to try it i'll be glad to send him the mod right away. The more important thing left to do is checking the balance of the "new" spells and there's no better way to do so than playing with the mod!

Actually they already use Confusion in SCS II. (...) Looking at the script, mind, they aren't that likely to use it... if you're not seeing it in practice, I might tweak the numbers.

Sorry i haven't seen them casting it, not even once, therefore i wrongly presumed it wasn't still implemented.

I can't remember exactly how I worked out demons' powers - I think it was some sort of mixture of 2nd and 3rd edition. (BG2 itself is kind-of-transitional, with spells like Unholy Blight creeping into an overall 2nd edition ruleset). And I think I had some time for the vanilla game's internal choices - e.g. I think Marilith pro/magic weapons is specific to BG2.

Exactly as i was saying: some sort of mixture of 2nd and 3rd edition can be the best solution sometimes.

Heh, it does and I also tend to give opponents their proper PnP traits. For example, with RR, Shadow Thief opponents of level 10 and higher get the "Use Scrolls" ability complete with a 25% chance of failure, as per PnP rules.

Wow...how have you implemented it? I've always liked how Refinements removed the cheesy "Use Any Item" in favor of "Use scrolls" but having thieves use scrolls at 10th level would be great!

[aVENGER_(RR)]

Wow...how have you implemented it? I've always liked how Refinements removed the cheesy "Use Any Item" in favor of "Use scrolls" but having thieves use scrolls at 10th level would be great!

 

No, you misunderstand. Rogue Rebalancing does this for opponents only and accomplishes it via scripting.

 

I don't think it's possible to actually recreate the proper spell failure penalty for PC Thieves who are attempting to read scrolls, so the Refinements implementation is probably the next best thing they can get.

[Demivrgvs]

Also, once Spell Revisions is out, would you consider writing a sort of newbie guide for spellcaster battles (i.e. both mages and clerics) when using your mod with SCS/SCSII? I'm relatively new to the game, and would appreciate some pointers on how best to deal with these kinds of battles.

Well, I'm flattered but I'm not sure I'll be able to do it. Furthmore DavidW surely knows way better than me how to fight this AI!

Will your Chromatic Orb do away with the petrification effect? If not, would you consider offering a version of the spell that does?

Chromatic Orb works similarly to Prismatic Spray, each color has a different effect and there's a slight chance that more than one color will take place. As of v1 the effects are:

 

White - Light (Saving Throws: -4)

Red - Pain (-1 to Strength, Dexterity & THAC0)

Yellow - Blindness

Green - Poison (2hp/round)

Aquamarine - Magnetism (AC: -4)

Blue - Paralysis

Violet - Slow

 

I don't like petrification effect so much that I've removed it from Prismatic Spray too, and replaced it with a permanent stun.

[Icendoan]

Pfeh, no instakill first level spell.

 

Icen

[Demivrgvs]

Spell Revisions V1 should have been released more than a month ago...but due to technical reasons G3's updates are taking more time than expected.

 

If anyone wants a pre-release version of the mod just PM me.

[Bursk]

Demivrgvs, I am very interested in this mod and your Items mod, and will be using them both when I play my next EasyTutu game.

 

Regarding the Spell mod, will it make low-level spells useful even late on in BG2 and ToB? There is a component in the BG2 Tweak Pack called 'Add Save Penalties for Spells Cast by High-Level Casters' that adjusts spells to have save penalties when cast by high-level casters. I haven't yet tried this (it's currently in beta) but I do like the idea that my favourite spells can continue to be used throughout both games. Of course, the same applies to spells cast at you by the enemy, so it should provide a challenge when combined with SCS/SCS II.

 

Does your mod do something similar? If so, I guess I won't use the Tweaks component. If not, do you think your mod would work well with the Tweaks component? What I'm trying to avoid is a sort of 'Right, I'm now in Chapter X of the game so I shouldn't bother casting spells Y, Z and ∏ because the enemy will probably make their saving throw'.

 

Also, what do you think of the Divine Remix spells, and how well will they fit with your revised spells? Finally, I've been using BG1-Style Summoning Spells from Sim's mod, and was wondering how this compares to your revised summoning spells.

[Demivrgvs]

Does your mod do something similar? If so, I guess I won't use the Tweaks component. If not, do you think your mod would work well with the Tweaks component? What I'm trying to avoid is a sort of 'Right, I'm now in Chapter X of the game so I shouldn't bother casting spells Y, Z and ∏ because the enemy will probably make their saving throw'.

SR too tries to achieve what you're wishing for, though in a different manner. Most SR's low level spells already have better saves because they all now share the same "save without penalty nor bonus" (e.g. Chromatic Orb +6 bonus is gone, as well as Grease and Entangle +2), but I've though that increasing their saves even more with levels (e.g. like vanilla's Spook did) would have made mages way too powerful compared to other classes. Fighters would have to save against too many spells with -4 or -6 penalty and -6 means they fail 50% of the times vs. death/poison, which is their better save, even at epic level.

Instead SR tries to make low level spells useful at high levels increasing their effectiveness, damage, bonuses, and the like without affecting their saves. Good examples are:

- Armor: it's AC bonus now increases with levels (up to 20th)

- Grease: always slow opponents with no save and can potentially knock them out (previoulsy it only had a chance to slow targets and even allowed a save to negate)

- Sleep: now affects every creature with less Hit Dice than the caster (instead of becoming useless very soon when it affected only chracters with less than 5HD)

- and so on (see the list of changes at page 1 for more details)

Mid level spells (3rd, 4th and 5th level ones) now share -2, -3, and -4 penalty respectively which should allow them to shine even at very high level (like vanilla's Slow and Chaos spells already did).

High level spells may even risk to be too powerful with SR's saving throw system, though it also make much more frightening and challenging a lich's Wail of the Banshee.

Anyway SR will surely be improved with subsequent releases, I'll strive to make most if not all spells useful, and we'll discover together whichever is the best solution for them (saves, effects, etc).

In the meanwhile, combining SR with Tweak Pack's "Add Save Penalties for Spells Cast by High-Level Casters" surely makes SR's spells way too powerful.

Also, what do you think of the Divine Remix spells, and how well will they fit with your revised spells?

From SR's readme:

"Spell Revisions may have slight compatibility issues with Divine Remix. Divine Remix rearranges the spellbooks of clerics and druids, and I’ve not tested how this works with the changes made by Spell Revisions (e.g. clerics no longer have access to animal summoning spells while druids gain some “precluded” spells like sunray along with new ones like ice storm and polymorph other). However installing Divine Remix after Spell Revisions will surely lead to better results."

Finally, I've been using BG1-Style Summoning Spells from Sim's mod, and was wondering how this compares to your revised summoning spells.

I obviously prefer SR's ones. I think it depends on personal tastes: Sim's solution is more similar to PnP, and provides more cannon fodder, while SR's spells generally summon more powerful creatures without exceeding the summoning cap. Another slightly difference is that with SR you exactly know the type and number of creatures you're going to summon and their complete description (characteristics, special qualities, combat abilities, and so on).

[Guest Guest]

Thanks for the detailed response. Once again it appears that you've thought of everything.

 

Despite having been around these forums for a while now, I'm still not that familiar with the BG games, so can't really offer much of an opinion on your changes vs. the original spells/items. I do know that a lot of vanilla spells were useless, and were unlikely to ever be chosen by players. It'll be great to have a mod correct this.

 

What I can promise you is that once I start my EasyTutu game (I'm waiting on a number of mod releases/updates so it may not be for a number of months) I'll give you feedback on how it's going, and how I'm finding the spells. I'll also forget about using that Tweak Pack component.

 

Compatibility with Divine Remix is certainly something that a lot of people would like to see sorted (obviously we'll need to test both mods together to find what's best) since it's such a popular mod. I'm sure the two can be made to play nicely together. I suppose I'll give your summoning spells a go, although I'll continue to use the Summoning Cap Removal component from Sim's mod (I hate that summoning limit!).

 

I forgot to ask you if I should continue to use Enhanced Goodberries from Sim's mod, or if you give them berries a similar boost (I imagine you do). Also, I currently use Altered Spells from Oversight:

 

A ranger's Charm Animals ability will now automatically and permanently befriend every animal on the map. Know Alignment now targets every character on the map, like Detect Evil, and allows no save. It also detects lawful or chaotic alignment, instead of just good and evil. Comet is now unaffected by magic resistance and the damage it inflicts is crushing, making it no longer a weaker choice than Dragon's Breath for every situation.

 

How does SR deal with these three spells?

[Bursk]

That was foolish, non-logged in me.

 

Ah, and will the Beastmaster's Animal Summoning spells be your improved versions? I hope so!

[Demivrgvs]

Compatibility with Divine Remix is certainly something that a lot of people would like to see sorted (obviously we'll need to test both mods together to find what's best) since it's such a popular mod.

Indeed it's something I'm going to work on.

I'll continue to use the Summoning Cap Removal component from Sim's mod (I hate that summoning limit!).

I don't like the summoning cap, but I also think it serves its purpose well, balance.

I forgot to ask you if I should continue to use Enhanced Goodberries from Sim's mod, or if you give them berries a similar boost (I imagine you do).

Yes I do. I should have updated the first page with many spells but I've already prepared the forums for SR's first release and I'm too lazy to update a post which should become outdated very soon.

Also, I currently use Altered Spells from Oversight:

 

A ranger's Charm Animals ability will now automatically and permanently befriend every animal on the map. Know Alignment now targets every character on the map, like Detect Evil, and allows no save. It also detects lawful or chaotic alignment, instead of just good and evil. Comet is now unaffected by magic resistance and the damage it inflicts is crushing, making it no longer a weaker choice than Dragon's Breath for every situation.

 

How does SR deal with these three spells?

I haven't touched both High Level Abilities and character's special abilities at the moment, though I'm probably going to do it sooner or later.

Ah, and will the Beastmaster's Animal Summoning spells be your improved versions? I hope so!

See above. I previously had simply adjusted druid's Animal Summoning spells to also replace Beast Master's one, then I temporarily decided that changing kit's special abilities wasn't related to SR. As innate abilities are on SR's to-do list and it would be quite simple to "reintroduce" Beast Master's improved spells along with them.

 

A a side note now that SR is "finished" and IR is almost complete I'm thinking about doing a Kit Revisions too (especially because, fortunately, most classes don't need refinements), and Beast Master is surely one of the classes that needs to be improved imo (along with the Wizard Slayer).

[Bursk]

You're right about the Beastmaster needing improvement, so for now I suggest altering his AS spells. No-one will want to have druids casting your improved AS spells while the Beastmaster has the crap version. That'll just make ol' Beasty even worse!

 

I'm currently using the Wizard Slayer Magic Resistance Bonus from Ashes of Embers, so I'll definitely take a look at what you've got planned.

[Bursk]

I don't know if this has already been asked, but if I have SCS/SCSII faster bears installed, will the bears summoned by your mod be affected? If not, could you please implement this?

 

I suppose the same question applies to the bears summoned by kits e.g. totemic druid and beastmaster (which you'll eventually be tweaking, right?).

 

Edit: And I just noticed that for Flame Strike you've said:

 

Available to druids; 1d6 damage/level (up to 15d6) to the target and everyone in 6' radius

 

Does "everyone" also mean party members, or just enemies?

[Demivrgvs]

Spell Revisions now has his own forum at G3 here, please direct there any question regarding this mod so that I can easily track them all. Anyway...

I don't know if this has already been asked, but if I have SCS/SCSII faster bears installed, will the bears summoned by your mod be affected? If not, could you please implement this?

If you install SCS II after SR (and you should) they probably are affected. If not I can increase their movement rate myself, though I can't add it to the first release soon to be officially released (which is already available here) I can post an hotfix to implement it.

I suppose the same question applies to the bears summoned by kits e.g. totemic druid and beastmaster (which you'll eventually be tweaking, right?).

Unfortunately I haven't touched kits till now, but I'm quite sure I'll work on them very soon, and fortunately such a mod doesn't need to be complete like SR or IR to be released. I may just start with a "simple" Beast Master revision and release it. I think I should start a thread about it sooner or later.

 

P.S In the upcoming Item Revisions I've already "secretly" implemented one small change to Beast Masters, they can now wear non-metallic medium and heavy armors (Wyvern's scales, Dragonplate, ...).

 

Edited (you've edited your post while I was writing mine! )

Edit: And I just noticed that for Flame Strike you've said:

 

Available to druids; 1d6 damage/level (up to 15d6) to the target and everyone in 6' radius

 

Does "everyone" also mean party members, or just enemies?

I've just encountered this dilemma few days ago. At the moment it also affects allies (as per PnP), but for AI consistency (they'll cast it ignoring it also affects their allies) and balance purpose I was thinking to make it affect only enemies from the next release. Again I may post an hotfix if players widely think it's better.