Any interest in a Keldorn Expansion mod?

[Guest Sephira]

Yeah, I know. A lot of people don't like people making the traditional Bioware group romanceable, but there you go. There are so many romances and friendships out there as it is, but I was rummaging through some old files I had on disc, and came across a heap of dialogue I'd forgotten I'd even written years ago when I was toying with the idea of making a Keldorn romance and friendship (currently SoA only). There's a lot there, so I thought I'd ask and see if anyone would even be interested in playing if I set about coding it all up? (I'd like to be sure there's interest before I start, since my lack of knowledge means it'll take forever, and it's a lot to undertake)

 

The mod as it stands has a romance track for a female protagonist of elf, half-elf or human race (and I feel bad about not including halflings and such, so maybe I'd do something about that) that is about 70% complete, extensive flirts (I wrote them whenever I was bored, because I'm lame. Shh, my husband thinks I was working on my book.), one quest, and a partially completed friendship/mentor track for uninterested females or males.

 

If anyone wants to know more or show some support, let me know. I have free time on my hands right now, so it would be a good time to start.

[berelinde]

I would feel guilty about it, since I believe that Keldorn is devoted to Maria, but there is precedent: Jaheira was devoted to Khalid in BG1, and you know what happened to her in BG2.

 

Regardless, I would definitely be interested in the mod, and would definitely install it. Keldorn is one of my favorite NPCs.

[Sephira]

Thanks for the input! (I'm a big fan of Gavin, by the way)

 

I'd pretty much followed the Jahiera line of thought as far as the romance went myself, yes. The way I had it planned and written, it's definitely got to be PC initiated and something you have to work for -- letting him see the worth in himself, and the life worth living, so to speak. His wife and children do play a very large part in the romance, at least initially.

 

That's why I'd added the friendship/mentor track though. He's just such an interesting character with so little support. I wanted to give players the opportunity to have someone to "look up to", lean on, in a fashion.

[Amaurea]

I would also most definitely play this. Like berelinde, Keldorn is one of my favorite characters. I'd feel guilty about the romance but I can see where it could be handled well, and yes, I'd play it. Courtly, hot, and wise? My knees are weak already...

 

Even without the romance, the friendship/mentor idea is an exciting prospect as well. Please tell me you have plans to do a TOB portion!

[Sephira]

Oh, absolutely! ToB is planned and has the barest sketches down. SoA is just as far as I got before I got too busy and forgot all about it.

 

Thanks for your interest! I believe I may move forward with this. If just one person downloads and enjoys it, that's enough for me. It'll take some time though, due to the aforementioned lack of scriptitude. Looks like I need to tighten my learning belt. *flexes*

[Ankhesenpaaten]

I too would play it and like the idea of romancing him. Are you aware of the Keldorn Romance in progress over at BWL? Just asking. You certainly can make your own and I would definately play both. Every author is unique and brings something new to the table.

 

Yes the Maria thing is something that has to be handled well to be believable but I don't see why it couldn't be done. I don't know how I would handle it but there are so many talented writers out there who probably have loads of good ideas. I wonder how you are planning it?

 

Anyway romancing him would be a treat! Meh - except that I would have to play a good pc most likely. Lately I've been CN alot but I can also play good pc's!

 

Don't worry about what people think of romancing Bioware NPC's. Edwin works, and people want Valygar pretty badly and I think some even want Irenicus and Yoshimo, so why not Keldorn? Of course I would adore Xzar being saved in BG2 and being able to romance him so I know I'm very very weird.

[Kulyok]

It looks like it's going to be a good read - authors with a good grip of English and a sense of humor I can share are always a welcome sight.

 

(And on a Thursday morning, welcome sights *are* pretty rare, as you can imagine).

 

But, and it's a big but. As the Romantic Encounters maintainer, I can't possibly condone ingame adultery, as you can imagine. But a romance with Keldorn is (as it seems to me) only possible if he imprisons his wife for life. Do you think a romance with another woman is possible after that? Yes from the player's side - I can imagine a protagonist so ruthless she'd quietly send an assassin to Maria's cell just to make things complete. But from Keldorn? He is a paladin, he is Good, and he sent his wife to rot for life. It's a huge milestone of guilt. Yes, he is able to go on each day knowing of Maria's fate, but will he be able to go on and make love to another woman knowing of Maria's fate?

 

 

I think some even want Irenicus

 

... people will remember my first post about Irenicus romance forever, even though it's been deleted from the Studios, will they...

[berelinde]

Hmmm, yes, that's right, Maria is imprisoned for life, and her lover hung. I keep thinking both were hung. Of course, it's always possible that Keldorn is only under the assumption that Maria will be imprisoned, and that once the trial comes, possibly in a witnessed encounter with Brynlana, the magistrate, she is sentenced to death, not imprisonment. But then, Keldorn, and the PC, would have even more guilt to overcome. The fact that Maria's fate is in the PC's hands, and the couple is reconciled or separated forever at the PC's will, makes things even worse.

 

Stop being logical! I want this mod!

[Guest jastey*]

Because of exactly the thing Kulyok mentioned and the fact that Keldorn seems to be endlessly in love with Maria I would be intrigued to see this mod, to see how you'd "solve" the problem.

 

Can't Maria just run off with her lover... But again, I think from BioWare's side it was not intended like that. They are / were the perfect couple...

[Senka]

Well, my mod is discussed here

http://forums.blackwyrmlair.net/index.php?showforum=120

 

Because of exactly the thing Kulyok mentioned and the fact that Keldorn seems to be endlessly in love with Maria I would be intrigued to see this mod, to see how you'd "solve" the problem.

I found the solution after reading Paladin's Complete Book and discussing with players rolepleing paladins in PnP games. But I don't admit it's the only

 

But again, I think from BioWare's side it was not intended like that. They are / were the perfect couple...

Do you know about possibility when Keldorn killed Sir William and Maria left him with both daughters?

[Amaurea]

I could easily see Maria leaving. To me, the transition in the dialog from her seeing the other man to her still loving Keldorn with all her heart was a jarring one.

 

Does it really matter what Bioware intended their romance to be? After all, Bioware intended for Ajantis to die (sorry jastey!), Kivan to head back to Shilmista after BG1, Xan to Evereska, etc.

[jastey]

After all, Bioware intended for Ajantis to die

Now, that's a completly different thing!

 

Of course it can be changed by a mod, and I agree there are possibilities if Maria left Keldorn (does she do that if he kills the other man? I never played it in the game.)

 

It's only that for me, seeing the love in these characters speech was overwhelming, and very believable. So, a mod either begins at the point of no return (Maria gone, and not only imprisoned, but gone), or, from my point of view, has to change the characters personality. I just can't imagine Keldorn to fall for the PC if he got Maria into prison, or if he forgive her and she is still waiting at home. To start romance when she left him, I agree totally could work.

 

A mod, of course, can change everything, even the original path of the Keldorn family quest, but the question is whether that's desirable. (I spent some sleepless night thinking about how to get Ajantis back without changing the original BioWare content concerning this, because otherwise it would have felt like cheating.)

 

Just my view.

[Senka]

It's only that for me, seeing the love in these characters speech was overwhelming, and very believable.

I see only lie in this speech

[Bursk]

I keep thinking both were hung.

Charlie: They said you was hung.

Bart: And they was right.

 

Being a dude, I have no interest in doing the nasty with Keldorn, but I do find him a really cool character, so this mentor thing is of great interest to me.

[Sephira]

Geez. I go away to get some sleep and waffles (not at the same time, of course), and people start coming out of everywhere! Ohhhh emmmm geeee! (/tease)

 

I can see where some people would find the idea of a Keldorn romance moderately taboo, but understand I never intended for it to be adultery, or even to change the original plot that much. Below is the original outline I had planned, so 'ware of spoilers, although I'll try to avoid it.

 

SPOILERS!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. PC has an initial few talks with Keldorn where he or she has the opportunity to speak about any uncertainties they might have about their quest or leadership abilities (or, alternately, to profess how confident they are in both), as well as to ask Keldorn something along the lines of "Have you ever felt the same? On the battlefield, on the frontlines? Ectect, blabla." This is the initial starting point for the mentor/friendship path as well.

 

2. After a few such talks, a female PC is given the chance to try to become closer with Keldorn, as well as the opportunity for a few flirtatious comments. He'll step on it pretty quick, triggering a talk where he sort of gently lets her down, ie, he's flattered but he knows you're young, it's just a phase, you'll find someone you really love, and besides, yo, he's married!

 

3. This would trigger the initial Maria sequence. Note that if Maria is imprisoned, you won't have any opportunity for romance, as Keldorn will understandably be upset and grim. Instead, you will actually need to encourage him to reconcile, but don't let him leave the party! Keep him with you instead.

 

4. After some time, and another dialogue or two, Keldorn will ask if you mind stopping by his house again to see his family. You'll catch Maria in the arms of her lover again, where she will accuse him by driving her to it, ect. This time, it's Maria who has no interest in a reconciliation. In a bit gentler tone, she'll have a talk with Keldorn where she apologises, but tells him something along the lines of "You know we married young, and back then, everything seemed to have limitless possibilities. But things change. You became more involved in your work while I stayed behind, and somewhere along the lines we sort of . . . fell apart." She will then tell him it's best if she simply leaves, and will not be talked out of it. (I didn't want to go the route of simply vilifying her -- I wanted to give her some depth and make her into someone with actual feeling and motive)

 

5. Keldorn is understandably very upset. The PC will need to convince him that it's best if he stays with the party -- he shouldn't be left alone to mope, the world still spins, however you want to go about it. She then has the opportunity to (very slowly) try to begin a real romance, which plays out from there (although not without pitfalls).

 

END SPOILERS!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As far as Maria's original speech goes, I tend to agree with Amaurea on this one. I understand that people are flawed, but to me at least, what Maria did is something you just don't do, and her little spiel smacks of insincerity, which is why I chose to go the route with her that I did. I mean, we're talking about love here, not a lightbulb. You don't get to flick it on and off.

 

Of course, there are going to be people who disagree. Hey, when I wrote the stuff originally it was just for fun, something I never gave any thought to releasing, but, of course, if you don't want it, don't play it! I have been approached about making the friendship/mentor track part of a seperate project, so chances are they will be released seperately, so you can choose what you want. Sounds like people will bear the least torches and pitchforks at the gate for the friendship, though.