In the shadow of Bhaal

[Guest Paradox]

The Baldur's Gate series has had some of the greatest villains in any CRPG, with very memorable characters such as Sarevok, Irenicus and Bodhi opposing the protagonist -- yet one of the most marked and distinguishing things about this series was the continuous sense that something worse always lurked beyond them, beyond all worldly troubles that you overcame, namely the inner battle of the player character; the ever ominous shadow of Bhaal, from which there could be no easy escape. In the twisted nightmares in the original Baldur's Gate you got your first glimpse of that threat, even as you slowly realized that it was a different threat than that of your half-brother. The dead god Bhaal was part of you, somewhere in your inner being the Lord of Murder was slumbering, waiting to be awakened. You were nothing but a tool to him, the fuel for an entity that transcended everything you faced in your adventures, an entity who you knew would never count you out of his plans. Everything that happened, somehow it was inevitably parts of the scheme that this dark consciousness had designed, the scheme that Alaundo had only glimpsed in his visions. Bhaal always stood in the background, even in your brief moments of triumph, even when you defeated one mortal opponent after the other your Father's presence always remained, and his darkness was never diminished. From early on I knew that I would one day need to face Him, this transcendental foe who had been the source of my life, and who intended it for nothing other than my death. In the end, I knew, when the prophecy was to come to a close, I would have to stand before my dark Father and challenge his will.

 

Or not.

 

I cannot quite express how disappointed I was with the way ToB ended. Amelissan the Blackhearted was the one I got to fight instead of the darkness that had followed me in my journey this whole time. It was absurd. It was unreasonable. Always, Bhaal had seemed the proper Lord of Murder, the dark entity who had been the architect of his own Rebirth, a silent threat that had been the red thread in the player character's life. He had made a single brief, imposing appearance, or at least a shade of him had -- in the dream in the Asylum, under Irenicus' spell. There he had been the foe I dreaded, the dead god who deserved to be feared -- there more than any time before I knew I would soon need to confront him. How mistaken I was. In ToB, everything was turned on its head.

 

Suddenly, the feeble shade of Bhaal was summoned by the Solar, now in the shape of the slayer instead of the intimidating armored figure. He stood across from Amelissan and blamed her for betraying him, breaking his trust. Needless to say, it was not an awe-inspiring scene. Suddenly the darkness was gone. The worst thing I had to face was a pretty, doll-faced young woman with a nagging voice. It was there that Bhaal died, not earlier. He had always been present, an ominous shadow cast over the player character's fate. He died when I came to despise him.

 

How, *how* could it be that the Lord of Murder would actually *trust* his high priestess to help him be reborn instead of assuming his essence? Trust is for gods who win their followers' loyalty and love, like Lathander or Helm, not an evil entity like Bhaal. How could Bhaal in the blink of an eye be turned from the evil, transcendental architect of prophecy into a naive, pitiful ghost who is cast aside by the likes of Amelissan?

 

I was dumbstruck. What was Bioware thinking? I had my hopes though. Throughout the whole of the final battles I hoped that there would be a last twist, I even expected it. It didn't come. I never got to face Bhaal. For me, there was no closure in the epic Saga of the Bhaalspawns. There was just one big, awkward anti-climax. And so the years past, and I put aside Baldur's Gate as one of those great epics that never quite fulfilled its true potential.

 

I'm revisiting the game now, and I still feel saddened by the ending. Now I direct a genuine plea to all the creative and skilled modders out there who would like to restore Bhaal to his proper majesty.

 

How could this be done? It's easy compared to some of the amazing mods already out there. All that needs to change is the final battle.

 

I see the game continuing as it has up until the very last time you are to face Amelissan in the Throne of Blood. She has filled herself with as much essence as she has been able to, ready to make an end to the player character once and for all, confident that her treachery and her plan has led her to the path of divinity. Then suddenly, as she spews forth her threats and taunts at the main character, she begins to feel pain. She resists it at first, suppresses it and tries to resume her conversation with the Bhaalspawn, but the tug is there, in her inner being. Suddenly the pain flares, and she gives up a hellish scream of anguish, as if she is being torn apart. The player character steps back, wary of this new trick. Then Amelissans screams change into laughter, and her voice grows thick, dark and echoing. You recognize it at once. It is the voice of Bhaal.

 

Bhaal's amusement echoes over the plane that he controls, his throne, the seat of his power, and in his dark mirth he reveals his humor. "... FOOLISH AMELISSAN..." His voice is like a thunderstorm. "SHE TRULY BELIEVED THAT SHE COULD DECEIVE ME. SHE BELIEVED THAT I COULD NOT SEE INTO HER BLACK HEART AND KNOW WHAT SERPENT SLITHERED THERE. BUT SHE WAS ALWAYS MINE, HER SPITEFUL SOUL WAS ALWAYS MINE. SO FOOLISH MORTALS CAN BE, IT IS A GREATER JOKE THAN YOU KNOW. SO BLINDED BY AMBITION AND HUNGER. THESE WERE THE THINGS THAT MADE ME TURN TO HER -- NOT HER OBEDIENCE. HER TREACHERY HAD TO BE. THE FUEL IS NOTHING WHEN IT IS NOT GATHERED. YOU, MY CHILDREN, YOU WERE ALWAYS THE FUEL, BUT TO TAKE SHAPE I NEEDED A VESSEL. AMELISSAN'S SACRIFICE IS GREATER THAN SHE COULD EVER IMAGINE. NOW I AM REBORN WITHIN HER FLESH, AND HER SOUL WEEPS FOREVER IN MY SHADOW. I AM ALMOST COMPLETE. THE POWER COURSES THROUGH ME AGAIN, EXISTENCE FILLS ME WITH ITS PROMISES, AND ONCE MORE I CAN FEEL THE SWEET HUNGER THAT I REMEMBER. YES." Your Father's vicious gaze turns to you. "BUT NOT QUITE. COME CHILD, OBEY YOUR FATHER'S COMMAND AND DIE!"

 

Something like that, though obviously you could make the conversation longer, and give the player a chance to talk briefly with the Lord of Murder before the *true* final battle commences. It would also be awesome if Bhaal changed into the armored figure that was Sarevok's old animation -- for some reason it just looks very suiting.

 

Regardless, I would be really, really happy if someone decided to make some mod like this, and give an old arch-enemy back his dignity. To me, there is no closure in the Saga until it has been done.

 

Thanks for listening to my rant.

[Kulyok]

I agree, everything that makes ToB _better_ and gives it more closure is probably a good thing.

 

You've probably heard of these mods, but nevertheless:

Ascension expands ToB finale:

http://weidu.org

The Longer Road adds Irenicus to your party in ToB:

http://www.onlinefiction.net/LR/LongerRoad.html

[Icendoan]

Yeah, ToB was a bit underwhelming.

 

Make a bigger version of Sarevok's anims and make him be able to summon the bone blades, Ravager Change, Slayer Change and call dead bhaalspawn to aid him.

 

Icen

[Hide and Seek]

My, that last line: "OBEY YOUR FATHER'S COMMAND AND DIE!" almost gave me the chills.. I can certainly see Bhaal saying something like that before the big fight.

 

I admit, I was surprised when I learned of Amelyssan, considering the PC's earlier promise to fight Bhaal, if he/she should need too. And I really expected to see Amelyssan being banished into the Abyss to face Bhaal after her defeat.

 

If this was possible, I would surely go for it. Amelyssan needs to reap the harvest for her interference in business that concerns the Gods and their offsprings.

 

EDIT: But what kind of anims would it be? The Sarevok animation is not able to cast spells or use HLA as far as I know. I've tried to use it that way.

[Guest Paradox]

EDIT: But what kind of anims would it be? The Sarevok animation is not able to cast spells or use HLA as far as I know. I've tried to use it that way.

 

Hmm, that's a very good point, which I hadn't thought of. It would be a shame to use something other than the towering armored figure (unless someone is skilled enough to make a completely new anim for Bhaal) but perhaps you could simply make his ordinary attack into his spellcasting animation -- and then reduce his casting time so he only swings his sword once, whereupon the spell comes into being. I mean, he is a god after all. And somehow, casting spells through the motions of ones sword would imply a more violent and forceful character, which I think might be suiting for the Lord of Murder.

 

Also, this might be a dumb question, but doesn't the Sarevok figure have an animation where he clenches his fist in the air similarly to Darth Vader's throttling grasp? Couldn't that one be implemented as the spellcasting animation? It sure would look appropriate for death magic and maybe raising the undead.

 

I must admit that I know precious little of modding, so if I am suggesting things that are not possible... well, that's just my ignorance.

[Icendoan]

Well, if you are creating a larger set of anims, you are going to have to redraw them, so adding casting anims is just extra work.

 

It would still take a long time, however.

 

Icen

[Guest Paradox]

Yeah, I guess the animation of Bhaal would take the longest time to make in a mod like this. A demonic voice would be easy to do with just about any sound editor though, just toying with the bass and so on. The dialogue wouldn't be extensive either, since its essentially just the very last face-off with Amelissan that would need to change -- with her being possessed by the dark deity she tries to consume.

 

So far it does seem as if the best option for an impressive Bhaal is the enlarged Sarevok animation, which would require some expert attention. Alternatively, if one would opt for more variation, I guess one could borrow an animation from the original Diablo game, which has an armored figure that looks very much like Sarevok, only a bit more demonic.

 

 

I think the second of those looks the most menacing, though I do think it would be a lot more work to import an animation from another game.

[Amgot]

I think the second of those looks the most menacing, though I do think it would be a lot more work to import an animation from another game.

 

Maybe less work would be needed if importing from an other IE game. IIRC someone already made a pack of creatures from PS:T or IWD to BG2...

[Icendoan]

Yeah, I guess the animation of Bhaal would take the longest time to make in a mod like this. A demonic voice would be easy to do with just about any sound editor though, just toying with the bass and so on.

 

I have had good results from Audacity, where I layered the voice with a BassBoost and then a 0.5 second delay echo with no volume depreciation.

 

Does anyone here have a very deep voice, as that would work quite well?

The dialogue wouldn't be extensive either, since its essentially just the very last face-off with Amelissan that would need to change -- with her being possessed by the dark deity she tries to consume.

 

Or simply make an addon, so after the final fights, you do not kill her, as in the normal game, but instead of the horrible Solar popping in, Bhaal takes advantage of her weakness and dominates her. At which point there is no need for extra anims.

 

Actually, I would like a very long and plot-revealing dialogue, with multiple endings. I would work it so we could still play the same ending movie though.

 

So far it does seem as if the best option for an impressive Bhaal is the enlarged Sarevok animation, which would require some expert attention. Alternatively, if one would opt for more variation, I guess one could borrow an animation from the original Diablo game, which has an armored figure that looks very much like Sarevok, only a bit more demonic.

 

 

I think the second of those looks the most menacing, though I do think it would be a lot more work to import an animation from another game.

 

And you have horrible copyright issues as well. (please correct me if I am wrong)

 

With my previous point there is no need to enlarge any animations. You could still use them as summons.

 

Does anyone want to start this with me, I can write dialogue scripts but not code them, but I will help out with items and spells and all sorts of other things like that.

 

CREs, DLGs and BAMs are not what I am good at

 

PM me please!

 

Icen

 

EDIT: I have had a most amazing idea, but would probably have to have a script longer and laggier than some from SCS or IA! He could summon every single type of monster you have ever faced him, over a long time, but he would then be an almost ridiculously powerful being, but, then, he IS a [dead] God. You could start off with little things, like gibberlings (sorry G3, but you are a puny race) and xvarts, but millions of them, to the dragons, which are the most powerful beings you have faced, and generally in order. Eventually you will be facing Bodhi, The Slayer, Irenicus, Spirits of Bhaal (slain Bhaalspawn essence, Bhaal should notify about this)and then the Spirit of Amellysan.

 

If that was implemented could we, perhaps put a few scrolls of things like Wish in the pile of monsters.

 

EDIT2: Cloudkill and deathspell would be absolutely amazing in this fight, at least early on.

[Guest Inusevs]

Icendoan this is my first visit to a mod forum for BG2 but I'd be really interested in finding out how to get at the code of the game. I'm sufficiently experienced with programming to make my own little isometric 2d games, primitive as they might be, but I've never figured out how to modify a game that doesn't supply its source code. What is the process for moding a game like BG2, are there decompilers somewhere that can be used. Any links would be nice, as too I agree that the ToB ending failed to tie the knot on the epic thread that was the BG saga.

[Guest Paradox]

EDIT: I have had a most amazing idea, but would probably have to have a script longer and laggier than some from SCS or IA! He could summon every single type of monster you have ever faced him, over a long time, but he would then be an almost ridiculously powerful being, but, then, he IS a [dead] God. You could start off with little things, like gibberlings (sorry G3, but you are a puny race) and xvarts, but millions of them, to the dragons, which are the most powerful beings you have faced, and generally in order. Eventually you will be facing Bodhi, The Slayer, Irenicus, Spirits of Bhaal (slain Bhaalspawn essence, Bhaal should notify about this)and then the Spirit of Amellysan.

 

If that was implemented could we, perhaps put a few scrolls of things like Wish in the pile of monsters.

 

EDIT2: Cloudkill and deathspell would be absolutely amazing in this fight, at least early on.

 

Heh, everything sounded nice up to this point.

 

I think there'd be some major issues with having such an extensive encounter, both gameplay wise, story wise and purely technically. Every monster you'd ever faced? Sure Bhaal is powerful and could probably do it, but I don't know if it would make much sense for the Lord of Murder to be throwing gibberlings and Xvarts at his demi-god son/daughter. Summoning the player character's old nemesises would be more sensible, but then, Amelyssan has already done that -- if we'd want compatibility with Ascension etc things would be stretched to the absurd if Irenicus & Co are dragged into the conflict yet again (not to mention if a cool mod like Redemption should be compatible, which there is no real reason it shouldn't be, depending on what is being tinkered with). A few well-picked, meaningful summons might well be worthwhile considering, though I doubt Bhaal would divide his essence to resurrect his children like Amelyssan did -- remember, he wants it all now, *this* was his goal throughout the whole series; restoring his children would be nothing but working directly against himself. I imagine that the Lord of Murder would be far more self-relying than Amelyssan, and certainly more comfortable with being more complete rather than parting from portions of his own essence -- I mean, the scattered essence is by definition his non-existence as a uniform being. It was gathering the essence in one body that enabled him to take shape once more and come into control of the vessel; now he just need the last few Bhaalspawns to be fully restored.

 

Aside from that, this is no longer the time for facing pawns and hirelings and underdogs, this is *the* showdown, this is where Bhaal himself stands before you, this is where his Rebirth is at hand -- he sees his sure success already, for he has no reason not to, *everything* has been pretty much according to his plans, and now he only needs to deal with the couple of upstarts that remain of his sinister litter. Will he toy with them and delay his Rebirth? I doubt it. I think he'd be eager to be done with this little ordeal and immediately seek to take revenge upon Mask and Cyric. I think his divine blood would be boiling with fury and indignation and deliciously dark plots to overthrow the two fools who thought they had defeated him. He could say something to the effect in the dialogue, laughing at Cyric's feebleness for going insane by the powers he stole, this pathetic mortal who was too weak for his fortunate success -- and how he would visit him in his madness, with all the wrath that the true Lord of Murder commands.

 

I don't know. I just think that this fight at least should be pretty straight-forward after the dialogue is through -- a clean fight, a true power-struggle between you and your Father. A final encounter, in which you confront the demon that has followed you since you drew your very first breath.

 

Remember -- Irenicus, Sarevok, Amelyssan -- to all these characters, the player has been a nemesis. To Bhaal, the player character is nothing. He isn't a main character. He is just a tool that has now outlived its purpose. Bhaal has never viewed you as a threat; this is simply the final stage in his successful scheme. You die, he is reborn. To him there is nothing epic about this encounter; it is just finishing his plan. Bhaal is the main character here, and you are nothing but a small obstacle in his path, a tiny distraction in the vast spans of time that have been his divine existence. Don't expect him to praise you, don't expect him to give you any great eloge, or treat you as a worthy opponent. Certainly, you have proven to be the most powerful of the Bhaalspawn...

 

... But that just means all the more fuel.

[Icendoan]

What I meant was not hordes of everything you have faced, only hordes of the things you can kill instantly, to make them a slight threat. Who is scared of 1 Xvart? A kobold, perhaps. Even at first level, they went around in packs.

 

He could be inactive at that point, but with a line saying that he has seen the death you have instigated and now you should feel the chill of death, caused by vengeance and malice. Primarily it would be sent in to drain the party of there morale, spells and endurance.

 

Perhaps, if you make a harder version, he would cast long lasting blind, AC and MR reducing spells on you, just so it would be even harder.

 

You will face about 15 Elder Orbs, but not at once. It would be a massive undertaking, and purely optional.

 

I do think Bhaal would toy with you, at least to start with. At the least, he would expose the true mastery of the plan, taunt the player, then fight.

 

Another idea, perhaps one that is better.

 

He is set on a timer, while wearing MINHP1. Until that timer runs out, he in indestructible. For 20 minutes perhaps, until he feels he has exhausted more power than he will gain from you, then another dialogue line like;

"YOU OPENLY DEFY THE HAND OF DEATH! YOU WILL PAY FOR YOUR AUDACITY!

 

He would then, after you are exhausted from constant battering and summons, hit you with his full strength. Summoning the dead, constantly, while hitting you with massively powerful weapons and spells, like none <CHARNAME> has ever seen.

 

You could make an interjection with LR, as Irenicus would be the only one able to comprehend the massive divine spells.

 

I will make an item that will make him immune to stat loss, so no ShapeChange cheese will break the final fight.

 

This was AFTER the fight with Mellisan, but they would be allowed to rest, as I think that would be an impossible fight otherwise. Perhaps the Solar will come back in, stopping the death of Mellisan, but as you leave the throne, Bhaal will rise in Mellisan's stolen body.

 

Icen

[Guest Paradox]

What I meant was not hordes of everything you have faced, only hordes of the things you can kill instantly, to make them a slight threat. Who is scared of 1 Xvart? A kobold, perhaps. Even at first level, they went around in packs.

 

He could be inactive at that point, but with a line saying that he has seen the death you have instigated and now you should feel the chill of death, caused by vengeance and malice. Primarily it would be sent in to drain the party of there morale, spells and endurance.

 

Yeah, it does sound better when you put it like that -- that he would kill you through bringing back the creatures that you murdered. That might give him some pleasure to observe, and would no doubt be possible to make believable in the dialogue. Not any of the Bhaalspawn, though, since that would just be splitting up his own essence again -- ie, killing himself.

 

 

Perhaps, if you make a harder version, he would cast long lasting blind, AC and MR reducing spells on you, just so it would be even harder.

 

A blind spell sounds like a really cool idea, since its never been done in a major fight. He is the patron god of assassins after all; it would be awesome if he made the player character fight in darkness, toying with his fears and presenting him with the spirits of things he has slain. Perhaps this is where you would hear the loud chittering of gibberlings, scurrying about like rats in the shadows.

 

I do think Bhaal would toy with you, at least to start with. At the least, he would expose the true mastery of the plan, taunt the player, then fight.

 

He might, especially if you angle it so he stretches his stiff muscles after being awakened from his deep sleep; he is like someone who just got his health back after a severe illness, feeling rejuvenated and strong and taking great pleasure in testing his own power again.

 

Another idea, perhaps one that is better.

 

He is set on a timer, while wearing MINHP1. Until that timer runs out, he in indestructible. For 20 minutes perhaps, until he feels he has exhausted more power than he will gain from you, then another dialogue line like;

"YOU OPENLY DEFY THE HAND OF DEATH! YOU WILL PAY FOR YOUR AUDACITY!

 

He should definitely be indignated when you turn out to present real resistance. This is not your place, you are just a lesser part of him, who are you to resist his supreme will? He should be resentful:

"YOU FOOL! YOU GO AGAINST YOUR VERY PURPOSE, LIKE A HATCHLING FALLEN OUT OF ITS NEST TO BE FED BY HUMAN HANDS. YOU ARE NOT MEANT FOR LIFE, DISOBEDIENT CHILD, YOU ARE MEANT TO FEED GREATER THINGS. YOU ARE *MEANT* TO BE MURDERED!"

 

He would then, after you are exhausted from constant battering and summons, hit you with his full strength. Summoning the dead, constantly, while hitting you with massively powerful weapons and spells, like none <CHARNAME> has ever seen.

 

I got an awesome vision at that summoning the dead parts; how about making the minions he calls back be purely the undead, great hordes of skeletal warriors and strengthened zombies and liches, and then you give them the names of all the characters you have slain, like Phaere, Tazok, Baron Ployer, Ilych, Neb, the Skinner, etc etc -- all the minor named characters that have died by your doing, now they are nothing but mindless shambles of bones and rotting flesh. There should also be a bunch of weaker skeletons that are nameless, called simply "Nameless victim", just so the hordes of the dead can be quite endless.

 

The reason I prefer this to a bunch of beholders and dragons and mindflayers are that they are more uniform, and not as "messy". It would be a much cleaner theme, and something very different from what's been done earlier. You shouldn't be able to speak with these victims; they have degenerated into nothing but undead, vengeance-hungry husks. Skip the creatures that seem alive, and make this be purely an encounter with death -- only the murdered have a place here, only the tormented souls that you have doomed. Let this be la danse macabre that is the essence of murder.

 

You could make an interjection with LR, as Irenicus would be the only one able to comprehend the massive divine spells.

 

Irenicus should tell you that the divinity you face will never exhaust his power, and that the legions he brings back will not cease coming until you have defeated your Father. He will advise you to do so quickly.

 

This was AFTER the fight with Mellisan, but they would be allowed to rest, as I think that would be an impossible fight otherwise. Perhaps the Solar will come back in, stopping the death of Mellisan, but as you leave the throne, Bhaal will rise in Mellisan's stolen body.

 

In Ascension you are fully restored after each encounter with Amelissan, upon using the wells. Perhaps something similar could be arranged before you face Bhaal?

 

Again, the idea with a blind spell sounded very interesting... Combine that with hordes of the living dead and you've got a winner.

[Icendoan]

Wahey!

 

I like the blind, and assassins do not work through brute strength, they woork through posions and backstabs. Perhaps a similar thing should be used here. I managed to get x9 Backstab for my Assassin/Fighter hacked multiclass, which did 10000 damage with the killsword.

 

Blind, with shattered and useless armour, weakened in all attributes so as you are not worthy of a walk in the park, let alone a bout with a rejuvenated god.

 

Perhaps we should allow people that want a new Bhaal should have an option to commit suicide, though that is a seriously underwhelming approach.

 

I really like the renaming of the .CREs for all the different purposes, but we should only include the actual plot characters, otherwise the area scripts are going to get bogged down in hundreds of global checks to see if you have killed Neb or Baron Ployer, the skinner, ect.

Now all we need are some people to code it

 

I can help with some of the dialogue (not in .D format) and some bases, such as .SPLs and .ITMs.

 

Icen

[grogerson]

This is a great idea - the final confrontation with CHARNAME's nightmare as the climax. If you can get a team together to do it, I'm sure there'd be a strong interest in it.

 

Just remember, Bhaal must be defeatable. My concern is that you'll make the endgame too challenging, the final combat too difficult to win.

 

Here are some ideas to consider.

 

Bhaal will not be at full strength, having just awaked. CHARNAME also still has a fair portion of his/her sire's essence. The Book of the Dead Three states Bhaal, Bane and Myrkul came to power by taking the divine essence of a lesser deity (and negotiating with the bored greater deity Jergal). Bhaal was never as powerful as Jergal, even at his greatest. CHARNAME should be considered a threat, especially in this weakened state.

 

Replace the battle with Mellisan with this one. She should see victory stripped from her at the moment of her greatest power. A couple of dialog lines as she sees her victory vanish into defeat...

 

Summons are a nice idea, but the battle with Bhaal himself should be the focus. The summoned beings should serve only as a distraction. Sarevok and Irenicus should be outside scope of summoning to protect an in-party Sarevok or use of Longer Road.

 

If you've played the old SSI Gold Box games, both Death Knights of Krynn and Pools of Darkness had special dungeons. They were "kill-all" in design, and very difficult to complete. They were also optional. This battle with Bhaal won't be.

 

The final battle with Bhaal himself should be worthy of one who will Ascend as the new Lord of Murder or Lord of Justice. Just remember, they have to kill him, so he must be killable...

 

Edit: ...killable without the Killsword!!!