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Flirt suggestions


JPS

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I agree absolutely with the flirts being an option - preferably handled by a "I like you, but please, do not flirt with me again" option in the PC-initiated flirt pack so you can shut it off any time and NPC giving some indication prior to engaging in highly sensual activity; just for the sake of argument a woman do not need melon-sized breast to have the aforementioned V for licking. In my experience any adult woman who is not starved to near death would have cleavage. Why do I argue this point? Well, an author of a romance myself, when you write you do not want it to be painfully generic. I have not played with later versions of Kelsey, and his flirts I saw where the simple 'I love you - I love you too...' style. It was cute, but pretty boring after a while. I have not seen NPC-initiated flirts (that I guess are the most controversial choice wise). Frankly I do not see why there should be the difference between an NPC-initiated flirt and a love talk. They are simply 'out of sequence' love talks. I think they should be done only if they are in-character.

 

I think JC got the right idea about expanding PC-initiated options.

 

Once you go into 'expanding' I am guessing that you can do:

 

- detailed descriptions of sexual innuendo

- variety of responces to the same relatively innocent action (ie passionately kissing lips is OK, but nipples are no-no)

- environment dependent flirts (throwing snow when it's snowing or tickling you with a grass stem in the forest)

- story-telling flirts (I am bored, will you sing me a song/tell me a tale?)

- PC inqueries flirts (can you tell me of Dustmen philosophy, Haer'Dalis?)

 

I am unsure how you feel about the categories beyond the sexual innuendo one, which you clearly did not like. Optionalizing them though goes a long way to make everyone comfartable (if you clicked the clearly sensual responce provoking option... you wanted it George Danden!)

 

Another thing I detect in your post is a shot at the long standing argument about how much action description you want to include in the texts.

 

Some people adore it. I saw module texts with situation described thoroughly in literally every talk (I am told it's PST style).

 

Some people hate it, quoting, like you, hijacking of the player's imagination.

 

Both approaches have pro's and con's and have their audience.

 

It's up to the author to decide which style he prefers for teh module and for the player - wether to play the mod or abandon it. Since JPS said that the core content is writen out, my humble opinion is that the best way to go is to stick with the style he utilized for the talks. If he had pinpointed the stars on the velvet skies and showed that Haer grinned boyishly peering at the heavens etc, etc, etc, than it is probably for the best that flirt packs details the taste of his lips. If he just talked about eternity, it is in my view better to keep the pack economical and verbal rather than visual as well.

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With all my talk about avoiding preassumptions, I must admit that I assumed that Domi's post was a reply to mine, and was generally confused until I realized that it probably wasn't written in less than ten minutes, so it's more likely to be a reply to Rodent of Unusual Size (have you thought about registering, by the way? I'm afraid you've missed the chance to become member no. 400, but 402 is a good number too :rolleyes: )

 

There are some good points there that I would like to reply to anyway, but I've got a cold and an art history exam that I have to deal with first. I'll try to get back to you tomorrow :D

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With all my talk about avoiding preassumptions, I must admit that I assumed that Domi's post was a reply to mine, and was generally confused until I realized that it probably wasn't written in less than ten minutes, so it's more likely to be a reply to Rodent of Unusual Size

That will teach me to 'quote'! Yep, I was answering to the RUS, but now that you mentioned your post I am in absolute agreement with you :rolleyes:

 

Good luck on your exam. :D

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Guest Rodent of Unusual Size
I've never played the Kelsey romance, and I probably wouldn't use it as an example of anything even if I had

Well, it's the only full NPC I've seen developed by the mod community, and a pretty good one at that... if it wasn't for some really weird content.

 

but I'm making an effort to avoid preassumptions about the main character. In the standard lovetalks, this basically means that I'm trying to provide a wide range of replies (if Haer'Dalis makes a joke, I'm not assuming that all characters will think it's funny, and so on).

Yes, well, that's what I mean. And it's nice for a change to be able to do a little more than just being courted and make Charname bat her eyelashes... as long as you are not required to.

Freedom is one of those things Bioware could have paid a little more attention to, so why force your players to do anything "in the name of romance" if you can just leave the option open?

 

for example, the possible reactions might include "let him kiss you", "push him away", "kiss him before he has time to kiss you", "punch him" and "steal his trousers while he's distracted" (alright, maybe not the last one).

Might be a cool possibility of Charname has a 25 dex though ;) :

 

HD: ...and that is why Dustmen have no humor, my raven. Er. Jaheira? Why does your severe hawk's glare linger on my persona once again?

*looks down*

Oh sod.

 

:D

 

I'm trying to avoid describing why <Charname> does this or how it makes her feel, because I think that should be left to the player whenever possible (sometimes it's turned out to be necessary to imply some kind of feeling, )

Well yes, I hope so...

 

I agree absolutely with the flirts being an option - preferably handled by a "I like you, but please, do not flirt with me again" option in the PC-initiated flirt pack so you can shut it off any time

Ha, yes. That way you don't have to insult people in order to make them stop flirting with you. I always thought that to be a little odd.

 

just for the sake of argument a woman do not need melon-sized breast to have the aforementioned V for licking.

Er, maybe, although I'm not sure that's the purpose of a V (or any possible letter for that matter :rolleyes:) but not all women would want it. Especially fantasy ones who might be a little different from your average novel heroine-- such as aforementioned half-orc or something...

 

In my experience any adult woman who is not starved to near death would have cleavage.

It was an example, no more, no less, so I won't go into this in detail. Suffice to say our experiences differ... but that is probably region-based. I doubt folks like attractive tieflings mind, really. :) Next thing you know there are girls fussing over the fact Haer has no tail. Or horns.

...and I now remember just about every joke you can make about those so I'm shutting up right now :D

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so why force your players to do anything "in the name of romance" if you can just leave the option open?

 

Oh, well, another sore point. I agree, in short flirts it is easy enough to put many options.

 

However, if you start doing a logical, sequential romance... *Sighs* If talks depend on each-other the player had to have been exposed to a certain idea via each talk. Say, you have an option to shut off the talk as soon as NPC opened his/her mouth or early in the talk. Allowing the player to do that you as an author have to:

 

- make this talk inconsequential for the rest of the romance (easy with chracters like Coran till certain stage, difficult with more complex, story-telling relationship)

- make the talk reappear until player listens (will drive certain players nuts)

- shut off the romance all together (BioWARE pretty much uses it exclusively; we all know the flaws of such an approach)

- start an alternative romance path (something you can only do a limited number of times, because well... it's like writing a whole separate romance. I have 7 different romance tracks in Coran's and it was hell to code and figure out)

 

And you know what is especially jarring? There would *always* be an option at every turn that someone would have liked to have. No matter how many you'd put in. :rolleyes:

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Well, as they always say: You can't please everyone! From what I hear I think JPS will do a wonderful job with the romance. I for one am really excited for this to come out. Keep up the good work JPS! ^_^ :rolleyes:

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Guest Kania Blade

:) Ahhhh... as I've read, there is planned a description of a sexual scene... Umm, not much details, I hope? :)

I mean, not to forget that every lady has her own style in bed. I wouldn't like to be disappointed after years of waiting, imagining and loving.... and than sit irritated and think that "they made him look stupid!"

IMHO the players need a field for imagining anything they want and expect of this wonderful man.

*my ears are terribly red... hmmm*

 

And I've got one idea about his appearance (I also read somewhere here). His eyes, hair, big ears, OK and...

As I imagined once - his back. A pair of strange marks.

PC - What is this, lover? So strange scars.

HD - This is no scars, raven..... *his ancestors had wings, his mother - ?* Thank the gods, they didn't grow on me!

PC - Looks like they were removed...

HD - Indeed? Maybe, why not? I cannot remember that anyway.

 

(sorry for the style, I'm no writer indeed... just wanted to say about the idea.)

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Guest Kania Blade

:) Oh my GOD!! I've just read that Chocolate Pie idea.. How HORRIBLE!!!

Just imagined myself - chaotic-evil elf, her only friends are Xzar and Montaron, she hates Imoen most of all others, except for Aerie of course (and cakes too!).

The only creature she loves in the Realms is Mr. Haer'Dalis Blade and she tells him SUCH foolishness and can't stop... shame!!! :)

But to look from the other side. Being evil and telling him how fun that was to murder commoners? How cruel and unpleasant! And what will he think?!

The Cake situation) - what a stupid child!

The Commoner situation) - she's a monster no less!

I hope, there'll not be such situations where all the answers are too much goody/evil...

(and "happy hours with comrades in the bar" is wrong too - "gee is'nt she visiting the AA meetings?")

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Well, Haer'Dalis is neutral on the good–evil scale, so it seems reasonable that he wouldn't care a lot about where his lover falls on that scale. He will react differenty to different kinds of characters, but the whole good–evil thing just isn't very interesting to him, and you definitely won't have to chose only "good" answers in order to continue the romance.

 

I can't promise that there won't be situations where your character, Haer'Dalis, or both of them end up looking foolish, though. That's part of the price you pay for love...

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Guest Kania Blade

No-o, :) Dalis cannot look foolish. Whatever he does - it is just lovely.

I'm only afraid he'll think it's ME, who is foolish...

 

And you didn't say what you think about the snake-tongue idea. (my favorite dream...) Just an opinion, hmm?

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Oh, I've forgotten to ask about one inportant thing - will something change if Dalis is leading the group as always?

 

I don't think so. If I feel particularly ambitious I might write a short dialogue where he mentions it, but it won't affect anything else.

 

I have just one question: How set in stone are the plans for the flirts/romance talks?

 

I'm still taking suggestions. Small things are probably easier to work into the whole, but I'm not saying no to a suggestion until I've actually heard it...

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