Buidling A Devil That You Might Want To Worship: An Ethical Model For Mod Communities

[devSin]

Careful, he may get his blades out and blood you some more.

Don't you mean blood?

[Gabrielle]

Remember no means no.

[Wounded_Lion]

Careful, he may get his blades out and blood you some more.

 

Don't you mean blood?

 

Remember no means no.

 

I find your need to continue to hurl insults at me rather amusing. I've already said what amounts to:

 

"Hey, okay, whatever. If you're so upset with me that you can't think straight, then let's just call it quits."

 

But you still feel that ache, eh? It's fun but it's not that intellectually stimulating, so I'm going to avoid insults and instead hurl some observations.

 

You tend to ignore (jcompton, others) or ridicule (SimDing0, others) any legitimate argument against your position.

 

You care more about whether or not I'm a prick/cock/wanker (take your pick, as Sim hurled more than a few options) than you do about whether or not my argument poses a legitimate challenge to the integrity of your position.

 

My comments/remarks usually come in the form of me having a lot of fun with the topic immediately after or before contributing something of value to the thread. Yours more-often-than-not tend to be inane in nature and offer nothing useful (devSin, Gabrielle, others).

 

aWL

[SimDing0]

ridicule (SimDing0, others) any legitimate argument against your position.

For anyone counting, I haven't actually mentioned what my position is.

[Gabrielle]

I think someone needs a time out.

 

Remember no means no.

 

I was referring to the matter of crossmod banters or whatever and asking permission to alter someone else's work. They say no, it means just that, no. End of discussion, move on to the next person you wish to alter their mod for whatever reason.

[coaster]

I'm not a modder but I would have thought there is an asymmetry between Bioware folks and their attitude to folk modding their work, and modders attitude to folk modding their work. For one thing, Bioware were paid to do their work; presumably modders do it for love/community spirit/worship or whatever. This surely, at least partly, shapes their attitudes towards what others do with their work. I personally don't give a shit what someone does with my Excel spreadsheets that I am paid to create at work, but I guess they are not a work of great artistry. Maybe artists are different?

 

Another angle is whether credit is given. Someone who mods someone else's work and acknowledges the debt they hold to the original modder is presumably more ethical than someone who doesn't (or worse, claims credit for the original modder's work).

[Wounded_Lion]

@Gabrielle:

 

If I misinterpreted your words, I apologize. I assumed that your line was a mockery of the permissions viewpoint (a play on the anti-rape slogan) and a snipe at me. Sleepiness and the position of your post immediately following several actual snipes contributed to the misunderstanding.

 

aWL

[Wounded_Lion]

Hmm... Actually, my last general post (not the aside to Gabrielle, the post before that) came out a bit sharper than I intended. Just anatognistic by nature without even trying, I guess.

 

Anyway, how 'bout we stop the back-and-forth? I've been antagonistic, you've been antagonistic, I'm sharp enough to come up with a snazzy reply to your comments, you're sharp enough to come with a snazzy reply to my comments, etc. You can still dislike/hate me and all that if you want, but why not stop trading shots at each other?

 

aWL

 

EDIT: cleaned up a few errors

[Domi]

Another angle is whether credit is given. Someone who mods someone else's work and acknowledges the debt they hold to the original modder is presumably more ethical than someone who doesn't (or worse, claims credit for the original modder's work).

 

This is not a part of the discussion. The issue under the discussion is the crossmod content - at least it was before the April 1st spirit got to it. Crossmod content does not involve other modder taking a credit for the first one's work. At its extreme it involves writing a few lines for an NPC that the other modder might or might have not provided a conceptual model for.

[Wounded_Lion]

This is not a part of the discussion. The issue under the discussion is the crossmod content - at least it was before the April 1st spirit got to it. Crossmod content does not involve other modder taking a credit for the first one's work. At its extreme it involves writing a few lines for an NPC that the other modder might or might have not provided a conceptual model for.

 

I agree with Domi that stealing credit for another's work is a different issue. It is an ethical issue, yes, but a different one (and one about which we likely all agree).

 

I disagree about the scope of the argument. Crossmod is where the discussion started, but jcompton's suggestion of an ethical basis for a certain viewpoint elevated the issue above any one particular mod.

 

aWL

 

EDIT: grammar

[WizWom]

It's not particularly relevant for this discussion, but just for the sake of accuracy: I don't think that's quite true for computer software. The main legal constraint isn't the general law of copyright, it's the end-user agreement you typically have to tick "agree" to before installing.

 

Most EULAs do not prohibit modification, they prohibit decompiling. And I have only seen a couple mods with EULAs, most are open. In the absence of a specific license agreement, software is only protected by copyright.

 

That said, my backstabbing script I wrote bit by bit from scratch, but then merged it with a simplified version of another script set I had downloaded years before, and cannot find anymore. Technically, that's breaking copyright. In art work, once you reach 7 points of difference it's not a "copy"; in software, though, people have successfully sued with code that was merely based on a copywritten algorithm.

 

It's a can of soup. But, generally - if you see a need, mod to meet it. If that means taking some other modder's content and repackaging it, be courteous and state it is so, try not to break their look and feel or warp their creative content. But taking IA and busting it out into pieces so people could have fun? Cool. Taking DSoTSC and making your own mod using bits and pieces, not giving credit? Not cool.