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I don't buy:

 

"...but it's optional."

 

as a valid defense.

 

I see a lot of posts from players who simply install everything. Players have a different perspective than modders, and many of them simply trust us (experienced modders) to know what's best for them (an unwise strategy, I know, but it's true). Calling a (fixpack) component "Optional But Cool" is, to many players, as good as saying "Install This Component". However, this isn't really a problem unless tweaks (rather than legitimate fixes) are included in the OBC section.

 

In my mind, the question is: Why are some tweaks included in OBC? OBC should be for questionable fixes only, not tweaks that we think are cool (that's what tweak packs are for... ).

 

Truthfully, the scope of my OBC complaint is rather limited because (as I listed before) I only take issue with a small number of components. It's the lesser of my grievances.

 

Also, the above is an attempt at clarifying my viewpoint. I'd actually rather not drag the issue out. Come to think of it, I probably shouldn't have posted this, but it's a bit too late now. :(

 

aWL

 

EDIT: additions

Edited by Wounded_Lion

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As I said, I install this Super Modder pack not because I trust "experienced modders" :( , but because it fixed things in my install. I don't install all optional components myself either, but I could see that they could be viewed at as fixes or tweaks depending on what side of the coin you're looking at.

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"experienced modders" :(

 

I wasn't implying any superiority; rather just that players look to modders for guidance because, after all, modders create the mods. :D

 

aWL

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I wasn't implying any superiority; rather just that players look to modders for guidance because, after all, modders create the mods. :(

 

aWL

 

Eek. That was me.

 

Also, don't make the mistake of thinking that my thoughts here apply to modding in general. The Fixpack (any fixpack) is a special case.

 

aWL

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Also, don't make the mistake of thinking that my thoughts here apply to modding in general.

I don't care where they apply to. Nor do I give a shit.

 

Anyway, getting back to the topic, the Super Modder pack is essential. It does fix things in a way, so it should stay with the fixpack.

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I don't care where they apply to. Nor do I give a shit.

 

A. That bit wasn't directed to you; rather, it was a reminder of the scope of the issues at hand.

B. I don't give a shit that you don't give a shit. :(

 

aWL

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Apparently you DO give a shit you since you responded, fucking retard. :( Whereas I on the other hand never asked or cared for your "thoughts on modding". Neither does anyone here.

 

Run along, kid. You have no case here. You are arguing about optional components where you clearly know you don't have to install them. You're wasting everyone's time. Just beat it.

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I think there should be a bit more respect for Wounded_Lion, temujin.

 

What does things like "Run along, kid." or "You're wasting everyone's time." help to?

 

Not only it's offensive, it's even false. Because aWL is not wasting our time but simply stating an opinion (which I happen to not agree with but that's another matter...). In the BG2 Fixpack Forum he has also contributed with a bug report other than being a modder himself.

 

And keep in mind that the very same devsin is recommending players to not install the Super Modder pack. This is a recommendation by one of the authors of the Fixpack itself.

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Salk,

 

The instant he referred to himself as an 'experienced modder' was enough to tell me he is just a little bullshitter looking to argue just for the sake of arguing. I have seen some of his earlier posts regarding the fixpack. This Wounded Lioness is just another bastardized version of Baronius. Simply being a modder doesn't mean you should be given automatic respect. It should still be earned.

 

Anyway, I know devsin indeed said not to install this component and I respect that, but I kept getting parse errors (or warnings, can't remember which) on one of the older mods (it was either deeper shadows of amn / improved battles / domains of dread / every mod and dog or maybe something else I can't remember off the top of my head). Installing this component fixed that problem. I tested a couple of times with and without this component just to make sure. If dev says not to install it, I'm sure he has his reasons, and I think players in general should definitely listen to him, but it makes me sleep well at night with it installed. I have yet to encounter any problems with it.

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Apparently you DO give a shit you since you responded, fucking retard. :( Whereas I on the other hand never asked or cared for your "thoughts on modding". Neither does anyone here.

 

Nah, I just love a good flame war. :D

 

Run along, kid. You have no case here. You are arguing about optional components where you clearly know you don't have to install them. You're wasting everyone's time. Just beat it.

 

As I've already stated, OBC complaints are the lesser of my grievances. If you honestly think my viewpoint flippant, you're wasting your own time by reading and responding to my posts. Also, I'll leave when I wish, or when Cam bans me. :party:

 

The instant he referred to himself as an 'experienced modder' was enough to tell me he is just a little bullshitter looking to argue just for the sake of arguing. I have seen some of his earlier posts regarding the fixpack. This Wounded Lioness is just another bastardized version of Baronius. Simply being a modder doesn't mean you should be given automatic respect. It should still be earned.

 

Actually, if you'd been reading my posts lately, you'd know that I've been developing a growing dissatisfaction with the Fixpack for a while now. I was an enthusiastic supporter of the project when it first premiered (I answered Cam's call for testers and looked foward to a complete, stable WeiDU fixpack), but since my recent return to the modding scene I've been somewhat dissatisfied with the current state of the Fixpack.

 

I do love to argue, tho. Can't deny that. CDAD (Compulsive Devil's Advocate Disease). In this case, however, I'm arguing my own views. Also, I was asked to list my grievances.

 

Btw, asshole, 'experienced modders' was a reference to the Fixpack team and modders in general, not just me.

 

Also, I can't recall any of my posts regarding the Fixpack that weren't at least somewhat constructive.

 

Anyway, I know devsin indeed said not to install this component and I respect that, but I kept getting parse errors (or warnings, can't remember which) on one of the older mods (it was either deeper shadows of amn / improved battles / domains of dread / every mod and dog or maybe something else I can't remember off the top of my head). Installing this component fixed that problem. I tested a couple of times with and without this component just to make sure. If dev says not to install it, I'm sure he has his reasons, and I think players in general should definitely listen to him, but it makes me sleep well at night with it installed. I have yet to encounter any problems with it.

 

It's all well and good that it helped you, but it's messed up another player's install. Even if it's useful for installing older mods, it has no place in the Fixpack and should be a seperate tool.

 

aWL

 

EDIT: additons, grammar, threw in an insult for good measure :D

Edited by Wounded_Lion

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Wounded Lioness, so everytime you start getting your ass handed to you on any thread and have no way other way out, you turn around and claim you're playing "devil's advocate"? :( That's your meek "out"? :bday: You probably don't realize this but you don't know how fucking pathetic that sounds, kid. Reach up and slap yourself and re-read what you just posted.

 

I just love responding to this turd burglar in the proper way. :borg:

 

You seem to have some sort of an internal power struggle with the fixpack. You dislike the mod and yet you insisting on using it anyway? :party: What kind of moron would continue using a mod even though he clearly doesn't like it? :D I've seen less schizophrenic behaviour from Mike Prilla himself! :band::band: Hell, I bet even he would be appalled at this level of idiocy!

 

One more time since your dumbass cannot comprehend. There is NOTHING wrong with the optional components. They are NOT tweaks as you claim. No matter how much you believe it, it won't make it come true. :D Don't like it? Don't install it. End of story.

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Is a summoned demon/fiend likely to waste its limited time in the world combating another demon/fiend (even an enemy), or is it more likely to utilize its time in the world to slaughter everything else? From a roleplaying perspective, I think it'd be more interesting if both of the demons/fiends killed everything in sight that wasn't protected from evil, and then (surrounded by the bodies of the innocent and the unlucky) turned on each other. :(

Well, the whole idea is that, based on what we see of the Blood War in WK, Tanar'ri and Baatezu are mortal enemies and their "greater purpose" is to fight each other, and as such that is their priority over slaughtering innocents (which they will also still do). I'm honestly not sure to what degree this is extrapolating, but I think there's certainly some precedent for it without looking to PnP.

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And yeh, as for reliable testing, it'd be nice, but unfortunately the fundamental problem is that testing is really really boring. We can't afford to wait for a select group of people to play through the entire game 5 times to verify it working, and the set of players who will happily step up and say "for sure, I will play through Anomen's knighthood another 4 times with a gnome cleric" intersects with more or less nothing.

It's very much about the nature of changes in terms of reliability. With, say, an AI change (SCS, IA), or even a completely new quest (Dungeon Crawl, Tower of Deception), it's comparatively hard to break the game. Sure, you still need to test thoroughly, but if you're patching into complex existing material (Fixpack, QP Shadow Thieves) there's a lot more scope for stuff to go majorly wrong. Especially if you're me. So anyway, I'd tentatively say: cut us some slack. It's not that the fixpack crew are inconsiderate and "mistaking players for testers", but more simply trying to make the best of what is ultimately a fairly daunting task. Bug reports are great--why not keep helping along?

Edited by SimDing0

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Wounded Lioness, so everytime you start getting your ass handed to you on any thread and have no way other way out, you turn around and claim you're playing "devil's advocate"? :( That's your meek "out"? :bday: You probably don't realize this but you don't know how fucking pathetic that sounds, kid. Reach up and slap yourself and re-read what you just posted.

 

I just love responding to this turd burglar in the proper way. :borg:

 

Perhaps you should re-read what I posted. You know, the part where I said that I was arguing my own views (not playing DA). Here. Let me quote it for you since you have some trouble reading:

 

In this case, however, I'm arguing my own views.

 

I underlined it for you, too, to keep your attention on the words. ADD sucks, doesn't it?

 

Also, I don't think anyone here's handed me my ass (in fact, twas a fairly civil banter for a while). You certainly haven't done anything of the sort. All you've done is hurl some juvenile insults that made me chuckle.

 

You seem to have some sort of an internal power struggle with the fixpack. You dislike the mod and yet you insisting on using it anyway? :party: What kind of moron would continue using a mod even though he clearly doesn't like it? :D I've seen less schizophrenic behaviour from Mike Prilla himself! :band::band: Hell, I bet even he would be appalled at this level of idiocy!

 

Uh... maybe you missed the part where I'm a modder? Regardless of whether or not I use the Fixpack in my games, I support Fixpack installtions so that people who do use the Fixpack can still use my mods.

 

Who's Mike Prilla?

 

One more time since your dumbass cannot comprehend. There is NOTHING wrong with the optional components. They are NOT tweaks as you claim. No matter how much you believe it, it won't make it come true. :D Don't like it? Don't install it. End of story.

 

I love how you continue to avoid reading the actual words I post and instead rant about whatever the voices in your head are saying. Once more for the ADD kid:

 

As I've already stated, OBC complaints are the lesser of my grievances.

 

aWL

 

EDIT: spelling

Edited by Wounded_Lion

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First of all kid, settle down. You're not a modder. You're just a rookie with an overinflated sense of self-worth. :(:D You can't even comprehend the fact how difficult and time consuming it is to test all the fixes despite this being pointed out to your retarded brain several times. In addition to that, you've been talking out of your rear end regarding this whole optional thing and wasting everytime's time. There is a reason why no sane person here agrees or takes you seriously. Ever thought about that? :borg:

 

I like how you're slowly admitting you recommend the fixpack to players. Good. At least we're getting somewhere. :party: Eventually we'll make you see the light.

 

And I don't think anyone here needs to hand you your ass. You've been doing a tremendous job of doing it yourself. :D Perhaps you should take your own advice kid - "players look to modders for guidance because, after all, modders create the mods." In other words, YOU as a player (in the end that's all you really are), should look to the fixpack team for guidance and instead of arguing with them like an idiot.

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