Super happy fun lucky thingy?

[temujin]

 

Tell me about it, Caed. The modder pack is a neutral, harmless, innocent being doing its own thing. It helps some, but otherwise makes no difference to others. There is no reason for it to be removed and put somewhere else. The fixpack is the BEST place where it belongs. If, in the rare case a certain part of it is conflicting with some mod, the focus should be on resolving that conflict instead of quarantining it somewhere.

[berelinde]

Am I an idiot for installing the "super happy fun lucky modder pack" just because I like the name? Probably.

 

I don't assume that the player has it installed when I write my mods (heck, I try not to assume that the player is using the Fixpack at all, with mixed results), but I like the functionality it provides. Every once in a while I'll find a mod that forgets to add CD_STATE_NOTVALID to the tp2, and then I'll have to go back and add it myself. Then, when I reinstall (I'm a chronic reinstaller), I'll have forgotten I made the change, so I'll have to go back and add it again.

[temujin]

 

Fantastic. Good girl.

 

 

 

 

Also, as an aside, let's have a look at Mr. Lion's very first post in this thread.

 

It'd be more accurate to say that we dislike fixes that break things, fixes that force PnP conventions on us, fixes for things that don't need fixing, fixes that aren't given proper consideration/discussion...

 

But it's not as if Vlad's WeiDU Baldurdash is any better, so... I won't make too big an issue of it.

An unnecessary comment. Completely unrelated to the topic at hand. Just a trolling fishing-net of a post looking to lure creatures in. He wants people to provoke him so he can then innocently claim he's just defending himself. Looks like a lot of people took the bait.

 

And especially for someone that says "I won't make too big an issue of it", he certainly went out of his way to make it an issue, didn't he?

 

See, kid? You should've listened to me when I told you to beat it, instead you insisted on trolling further claiming you "love a good flame war". Well you certainly got more than what you deserved.

 

Repeat after me:

 

"I will never, ever, ever again bullshit anyone on the fixpack anymore." And make one public apology for wasting everyone's time and all is forgiven.

[Kulyok]

Question: why would a package of fixes for issues modders might run into not be appropriate for a Fixpack as an optional component labelled "fixes for modders"?

 

It's not appropriate anywhere, because introducing a dependency and encouraging a dependancy is a Bad Thing. Especially with "Help me with installation order, please!", "Nathaniel does not install, what shall I do?" and "What does this error message mean?" threads appearing every day.

[frabjous]

Why hasn't temujin been banned from the forums yet? I haven't seen any useful posts here, just baseless insults. And the language and tone is completely inappropriate. I'd really hate to see G3 get taken over by trolls.

 

EDIT: And if you'd like further evidence, look at the next post.

[temujin]

you don't know the whole story. just fuck off.

 

EDIT: And if you'd like further evidence, look at the next post.

cute. As I said, crapjuice, just move the fuck along. I don't simply choose to attack anyone, just the trolls that disrupt this place.

[Caedwyr]

@Kulyok: From reading the documentation it seems to have a number of modular components/libraries that modders can choose to cut and paste into their own mods.

 

Expanded action.ids and trigger.ids For SoA

 

The ToB triggers and actions that work in SoA are already added to action.ids and trigger.ids in the core fixes. If one is not present, shoutids.ids is also added as the ToB action and triggers can take shoutids entries instead of direct numeric shout values. These entries are added by an external library (bg2fixpack/lib/tob2soa.tph) to easily allow other modders to use this functionality.

 

Library file for expanded triggers/actions in SoA only games and reduce game version dependency for a mod.

 

Add Blank Music Entry for NPC Mods

 

Many NPC mods use a trick to play music ingame without the use of songlist.2da. A blank music entry is used for 0 in the song list and then it's called to kill the game music. A wav file is then played from one of the dialogue strings. The modder pack includes a blank music file and alters the 0th entry of songlist.2da.

 

Files altered: songlist.2da

Files added: g3blank.mus

 

Modified files to include/check for to make adding new songs, etc to a mod.

 

New State for IfValid Dialogue Checks

 

IsValidForPartyDialogue is flaky--it returns false if the object is speaking or if the line of sight is interrupted. One way around this is to use a custom state to check all of the common states in which a character shouldn't speak--sleeping, dead, feebleminded, etc. CD_STATE_NOTVALID is added to states.ids to allow for easier checking. Instead of IsValidForPartyDialogue("foo") you can use !StateCheck("foo",CD_STATE_NOTVALID).

 

Files altered: states.ids

 

A chunk of code to check/include for more reliable dialogue checks.

 

 

I could go on. By and large all of the components are modular sections of code or actual code libraries that can be included/checked for by modders in their mods for expanded options/reliability. It really only introduces a dependency if the modder does not read the documentation and do the work to include whichever sections they want to rely on for use in their mods. Essentially it is modder laziness/inattention that would result in producing an extra dependency.

 

It would be a real shame to lose or make it more difficult for modders to be able to access such a useful collection of code.

[Bearwere]

It would be a real shame to lose or make it more difficult for modders to be able to access such a useful collection of code.

open download is not that difficult. Most modders should ba able to handle it=).

 

But a good mod should should not rely on a fixpack being installed anyway, it's just more work for modders to check if it is.

[Caedwyr]

Again, I'll ask the question. If it is a collection of fixes and similar that modders may find useful to include in their mods, but not necessarily something that everyday players will run across playing the vanilla game why would it be inappropriate to include as an optional component in a fixpack labeled "fixes and stuff modders may find useful"? With Weidu it is trivial to include the fix library distributed with that package, a modular chunk of code which is the fix, and to also do a check to see if it is already installed?

 

I'm just not seeing what value there is to break it off into its own mod, when it is already clearly labeled and has much in similarity with the rest of the Fixpack it is included with. All distributing it as a stand-alone mod will do is reduce the number of people who will make use of what it has to offer as can be seen by the download numbers for existing collections of code for modders and diagnostic tools.

 

Since it'll probably be skipped over again in my above response, I'll repeat the message I keep on seeing brought up.

 

A good mod should not rely on the "Fixes for modders" to be installed. Each component is modular or part of a stand alone pre-made library that can easily be included in the good mod. However, it is also trivial and good coding practice to run a check when installing to see if the component has already been installed by another mod and to then not perform a redundant install. Please stop (to posters in general) repeating the line of how a "fixes for modders" causes dependencies. It doesn't. If it does then it is the fault of the modder.

[Wounded_Lion]

Again, I'll ask the question. If it is a collection of fixes and similar that modders may find useful to include in their mods, but not necessarily something that everyday players will run across playing the vanilla game why would it be inappropriate to include as an optional component in a fixpack labeled "fixes and stuff modders may find useful"? With Weidu it is trivial to include the fix library distributed with that package, a modular chunk of code which is the fix, and to also do a check to see if it is already installed?

 

That's exactly why it doesn't belong in the Fixpack. It's a modding tool, not a game fix for players. Ideally, the Fixpack would consist of one component: Stable Fixes. Everyone, players and modders from every community, could then use it as a stable base knowing that it only fixes legitimate bugs and does nothing else whatsoever. Optional But Cool would be an acceptable addition were it limited to questionable fixes and undoing fixes that radically alter gameplay (Free Action, for example).

 

I'm just not seeing what value there is to break it off into its own mod, when it is already clearly labeled and has much in similarity with the rest of the Fixpack it is included with. All distributing it as a stand-alone mod will do is reduce the number of people who will make use of what it has to offer as can be seen by the download numbers for existing collections of code for modders and diagnostic tools.

 

How will seperation reduce the number of people who can take advantage of it? It would be hosted on the same site as the Fixpack (G3) and be just as easy to obtain. Most modders who use SHFL pack elements usually snip and include particular bits in their mods, rendering the SHFL a library of useful code rather than a component itself. The download numbers for tools are lower because there are fewer modders than players.

 

aWL

[Wounded_Lion]

That's exactly why it doesn't belong in the Fixpack. It's a modding tool, not a game fix for players. Ideally, the Fixpack would consist of one component: Stable Fixes. Everyone, players and modders from every community, could then use it as a stable base knowing that it only fixes legitimate bugs and does nothing else whatsoever. Optional But Cool would be an acceptable addition were it limited to questionable fixes and undoing fixes that radically alter gameplay (Free Action, for example).

 

The original Baldurdash is an excellent example of the above. In its time, very nearly everyone recommended and used it because it consisted soley of legitimate, stable fixes. The fact that so much controversy surrounds the BG2 Fixpack is a good indication that something is wrong.

 

aWL

[SimDing0]

That's exactly why it doesn't belong in the Fixpack. It's a modding tool, not a game fix for players.

Well, I certainly championed the Modder Pack on the basis that it would provide a standard on which everyone could develop. Clearly, for better or for worse, this hasn't happened, and maybe on that basis it would be better placed in individual mods. I don't actually know, to be honest--does it actually break anything that's out there? I can see the argument that a modder depending on it might inadvertently produce code incompatible with the original game, but in practice does this happen?

 

The original Baldurdash is an excellent example of the above. In its time, very nearly everyone recommended and used it because it consisted soley of legitimate, stable fixes. The fact that so much controversy surrounds the BG2 Fixpack is a good indication that something is wrong.

I'd have to say, I think this is more because Baldurdash didn't have the emphasis on community input and scrutiny that the Fixpack does. In retrospect, there is an awful lot wrong with Baldurdash, and while I don't think we can condemn the effort, I suspect that if it showed up now, "here's a tenuous Twisted Rune plot" would receive at least as much stick as "well, some of these alignments seem a bit shifty".

[berelinde]

... does it actually break anything that's out there?

No, and that is the sum total of my opinion on the matter. It helps some people, doesn't damage the rest, it's all win.

[temujin]

The fact that so much controversy surrounds the BG2 Fixpack is a good indication that something is wrong.

oh lord. There he goes again.

 

Under the official Bioware Technical Support forum, a Bioware employee heartily recommends the G3 fixpack in a stickied thread. That just goes to show how even the Bioware guys recognize it for what it is - the most legimitate thing next to an official patch. They could've just as easily mentioned the other fixpacks floating out there. But they didn't. So there goes your argument out the window. The fact is, this 'controversy' is only generated by guys like you and baronius that just repeat the same bs over and over like a mantra hoping it will give you some credibiity.

 

Which brings me to my next point.

 

Why are you still here? Why do you continue using the fixpack? Why not stick to using baldurdash? At least baromius is consistent in this regard. It seems you are frustrated and confused about the fixpack.

 

Give it up, Simba. The fixpack is doing just fine. It's dominance is absolute. I know it kills you to read that, but that is the way it is. Accept it and move on.

[frabjous]

you don't know the whole story. just fuck off.

 

EDIT: And if you'd like further evidence, look at the next post.

cute. As I said, crapjuice, just move the fuck along. I don't simply choose to attack anyone, just the trolls that disrupt this place.

 

 

Well, you're attacking me, now. Anyone who reviews my posting history here or a BioWare can tell whether or not I'm a troll, and can tell whether or not it's true that you only attack trolls.

 

I have no intention of getting involved in a flame war here, but seriously, the folks from G3 don't want to do anything about this? A poster like this makes the entire community look bad.