Super happy fun lucky thingy?

[the bigg]

<...>

I thought I'd only say this to people playing Team Jukebox 2, but welcome to \ignore, dude.

[temujin]

I don't know what the hell Team Jukebox is, but ok, sweetie.

[Nythrun]

Stay on topic please; I'd prefer not locking this.

 

And yes, mods which expect that no change has been made to a particular game file can fail to install without error if that file's been changed. This isn't news and nothing that's done with the modder pack can obviate it.

[DavidW]

Or more accurately: I've seen one argument, which is that some people just install everything without checking the readme, but I don't think it's a particularly persuasive argument. On that basis, SCS and the Tweak Pack (among others) would have to have many components removed, I suspect.

 

You're forgetting the scope of the issue. Considerations for fixpacks and mods are not identical.

 

aWL

 

Perhaps, but then I'd need to see an argument as to why it matters more in this case. After all, the logic goes:

 

If someone installs the mod/fixpack/whatever and just does nstall all without reading the readme, they won't get quite what they would ideally want; and some people do indeed install without reading the readme. So we can't have components that aren't good for everyone's install.

 

Whereas I'm more inclined to say: if someone doesn't read the readme, there's not much you can do about it. The game had better function properly with all components installed, and there's obviously a sanity-imposed limit (I'm not suggesting that Tactics Improved Irenicus be an OBC component!) but within fairly broad constraints I don't really see the problem.

[CamDawg]

Why hasn't temujin been banned from the forums yet? I haven't seen any useful posts here, just baseless insults. And the language and tone is completely inappropriate. I'd really hate to see G3 get taken over by trolls.

We don't ban, or delete posts, or anything else silly like that. Yes, we get the bad language and the occasional useless troll like temujin, but the upside is much greater: unfettered discussion and a true (flattering or not) portrait of the members here so folks can decide for themselves to whom is worth listening. The community actually does a pretty good job at self-regulating and minimizing idiots.

 

Much like modder experience, I'd rather the 'dominance' of the fixpack spoke for itself rather than having to remind people.

Yes. The key takeaway: it's much better to spend time making your mod rock than to go around and tell everyone how much it rocks. Actual quality always trumps perceived quality.

 

A couple of things re: the rest of the thread.

 

SHFLMP was originally intended to be a home for Detectable Spells. At the time we started FP three years ago there were about 948 different versions of DS in use (nowadays it's much better, down to around 761). DS was always a much lower priority compared to the bug lists and, in fact, most of the work done on the 'current' version was done more or less without anyone from FP involved (except Nythrun, who somehow manages to help everyone, everywhere, with everything). Looking back, it was definitely an overly optimistic assessment that we could get a big enough buy-in.

 

As for making the SHFLMP available individually, most of the useful bits in it have been farmed out to libraries to make them easily incorporated into other mods. This is also true in the main core fixes as well, as we try to farm out the bits most likely to other modders into libraries (i.e. the addition of ToB actions/triggers to SoA-only games is handled by a library). Like pretty much everything in the FP, I'd actively encourage modders to include whatever fixes are needed for their mods (ar0800.bcs script fix, for example) with our blessing to avoid dependencies. You don't need to ask permission, just take what you need, though an acknowledgment would be appreciated. (For those interested, that goes for pretty much anything I've ever coded.)

 

As for its future, good question. It'd be nice to have a standalone package, sure, but that's not (functionally) different from a modder's perspective than the current arrangement. The big pro would be that players don't have to bother with another option; the con would be maintenance of a separate package.

[temujin]

Cam baby, as much I like you for your objectivity, you too sometimes disappoint me. See the first post where the idiot tried to hijack the thread before you start accusing me.

[CamDawg]

That I bothered to call you out specifically means I think I can affect your behavior for the better through discourse. I don't bother engaging if I don't think I can influence--observe my complete pass on Sim's language. Much as I love Sim, the best way to get Sim to press a button is to hang a sign above it that says 'do not press this button'.

 

As for aWL, past observation says the proper course is to engage his valid points and ignore the grandstanding. DavidW seems to have a knack for it, so rock on you fightin'... uh... Balliolines. (Seriously, get a mascot!)

[Bearwere]

As for its future, good question. It'd be nice to have a standalone package, sure, but that's not (functionally) different from a modder's perspective than the current arrangement. The big pro would be that players don't have to bother with another option; the con would be maintenance of a separate package.

so, why not just comment it?

[frabjous]

We don't ban, or delete posts, or anything else silly like that. Yes, we get the bad language and the occasional useless troll like temujin, but the upside is much greater: unfettered discussion and a true (flattering or not) portrait of the members here so folks can decide for themselves to whom is worth listening. The community actually does a pretty good job at self-regulating and minimizing idiots.

 

Understood. In an ideal world, these sorts of things would never be necessary. I think many forums do it out of necessity. I'll keep my fingers crossed that it'll be limited to one person in this case.

 

In any case, thanks to the Bigg, I realize this forum has an ignore feature, which helps immensely!

 

Anyway, let's get back on topic.

[DavidW]

That I bothered to call you out specifically means I think I can affect your behavior for the better through discourse. I don't bother engaging if I don't think I can influence--observe my complete pass on Sim's language. Much as I love Sim, the best way to get Sim to press a button is to hang a sign above it that says 'do not press this button'.

 

As for aWL, past observation says the proper course is to engage his valid points and ignore the grandstanding. DavidW seems to have a knack for it, so rock on you fightin'... uh... Balliolines. (Seriously, get a mascot!)

 

We have a tortoise, not sure if that qualifies.

[CamDawg]

As for its future, good question. It'd be nice to have a standalone package, sure, but that's not (functionally) different from a modder's perspective than the current arrangement. The big pro would be that players don't have to bother with another option; the con would be maintenance of a separate package.

so, why not just comment it?

It's an option, sure, but we might as well just toss the tph's into a zip and be done with it then.

 

We have a tortoise, not sure if that qualifies.

Is it ill-tempered?

[DavidW]

We have a tortoise, not sure if that qualifies.

Is it ill-tempered?

 

How does one tell?

[temujin]

That I bothered to call you out specifically means I think I can affect your behavior for the better through discourse.

I dunno about that Cam.. if there's anyone that can affect my behaviour, it's myself.

 

 

Understood. In an ideal world, these sorts of things would never be necessary. I think many forums do it out of necessity. I'll keep my fingers crossed that it'll be limited to one person in this case.

 

In any case, thanks to the Bigg, I realize this forum has an ignore feature, which helps immensely!

This is the third time you tried to get my attention. This might sound ironic, but it's actually me that's been trying to ignore you. You are like an annoying tick that just keeps coming back. How about shutting the fuck up already?

[devSin]

I have some seriously hawt man-love for the Dawg right now! Rock on!

 

Understood. In an ideal world, these sorts of things would never be necessary. I think many forums do it out of necessity. I'll keep my fingers crossed that it'll be limited to one person in this case.

The community has been around a long time with nary an incident. Just dust yourself off and keep chugging along. I for one recognize you, appreciate all the help you provide to people still playing these games, and am grateful for the suggestions and comments you've provided for the fixpack.

 

the 'current' version was done more or less without anyone from FP involved (except Nythrun, who somehow manages to help everyone, everywhere, with everything)

Freakin' savant, she is. "I COME OUT OF NOWHERE AND ALREADY KNOW EVERYTHING YOU DO. AND MORE!" ;-)

 

Much as I love Sim, the best way to get Sim to press a button is to hang a sign above it that says 'do not press this button'.

But isn't that part of why you love him? Always knows what to say and how to say it, that one...

[Salk]

Much as I love Sim, the best way to get Sim to press a button is to hang a sign above it that says 'do not press this button'.

 

Sim do not update your Mods!