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Qwinn's WeiDU PS:T FixPack


Qwinn

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OH! If you mean that they are basically still dialogues but the PC isn't involved, then yes, they are BG1 style banters. They are basically 2-6 liners, with no input from the PC, as you have described.

 

 

And yes, I'm keeping it in the Fixpack. I know I don't need permission, but I've gotten five protests over that decision very shortly after posting about it at 4 in the morning EST, heh, so that indicates there'll be controversy and complaints. Here's what'll be in my Fixpack FAQ regarding the subject:

 

 

Q: A Banter Accelerator seems unusual to package in a Fixpack. What's with that?

 

A: I've yet to hear a confirmed report of anyone seeing a banter initiated by either Morte or Annah - both their banter files seem to be totally broken. And you'll rarely ever see any banters initiated by Grace or Nordom either. In the end, you -might-, if you play the game extremely slowly, see 6 to 10 banters - all from only two NPC's - out of a total 78 distinct fully voiced banters, most of the best of which have probably never been seen or heard before.

 

Q: Gasp! Every other game has a banter accelerator in their Tweak Pack! How dare you violate Convention?

 

A: Every other game created a banter accelerator because some people learn the game so thoroughly that they can speed through it faster than the designers could've anticipated, and thus miss the last 20% of banters. That's a Tweak. Never ever ever ever seeing more than 10-15% of the banters in game, and never seeing banters from the two NPC's you have longest in the game - that's a Bug. If you never saw Jaheira or Imoen banters without an accelerator, and barely ever saw Aerie and Minsc's banters, I'm betting that a banter accelerator would be the most widely publicized feature in the BG2 Fixpack. Just because a popular tweak uses a similar method doesn't mean that same method can't fix real bugs. It's staying in the Fixpack. If this still offends sensibilities, feel free to not install it - it's a separate component.

 

Q: I've been playing quite a while now, and I haven't seen any "interparty banters" - what are you talking about?

 

A: One of two things is happening here. A) You need to turn on party AI (small button near bottom right of the main screen). Game limitations require me to use the AI to implement the banter scripts. Sorry 'bout that. B) You need to wait a bit longer. Dak'kon doesn't have any banters - he's the quiet sort. That means you're not going to see any banters until you've picked up a fourth party member, which you can't do till a fair ways into the game. If you've got any two out of Morte, Annah, Grace or Nordom in your party and you haven't seen any banter for over the interval you chose at install, and you have your Party AI turned on, let me know, there may be a problem.

 

Q: I hate having party AI turned on. What will happen if I install this and turn it off?

 

A: Not much - you just won't have your banters accelerated. You'll still get banters at the old glacier-like pace you do without this mod (and you won't see any from Annah or Morte). Think of the Party AI button as a "Shut up" button too, if you wish. All that said, Party AI in PS:T doesn't do much besides make your one cleric character an effective auto healer, so hopefully this issue won't cause too much heartache for anyone. Let me know if it does, though, and if there's sufficient demand I'll try to hack some sort of solution.

 

Qwinn

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Hmm. It -is- the standard dialogue window in PS:T, it's actually using normal dialogue files, it's just a chain between the NPC's and you're never given any options of your own. So I guess, with what you're saying, it sounds more like BG2. I can't really picture what you're describing anymore - the curse of Tutu.

 

As for the AI thing... hrm. Maybe add yet another component, one that comes before the banter fix, that erases the AI scripts that are there? That way the banter stuff would be the only thing in your AI, and you could just turn it on and it'd behave like it was off + banters?

 

In other words: I have no way to make it work without that button being turned on. But I can make it where pressing that button does nothing at all except turn my stuff on. Would that work?

 

Qwinn

 

EDIT: Actually, -that- I would make a Tweak.

 

EDIT2: Or maybe not. I can't think of any application for it other than this one, so it would make sense to keep 'em together. Hmm.

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Okay, here's what I'm thinking. After installing the core Fixpack component, you'll get 2 menus.

 

First menu says:

 

Install Banters?

 

1) Original (Broken) Banters, Normal AI

2) Fixed (Accelerated) Banters, with no Party AI

3) Fixed (Accelerated) Banters, with Party AI

 

If you pick 1), end install.

 

If you pick 2), overwrite all the existing party AI scripts with empty files, then install the banter fix.

 

If you pick 3), just add the banter fix to TNO's script

 

How's that sound? You'll still have to turn the button on if you want to see banters, but with option 2 that won't do anything -other- than turn banters on.

 

Qwinn

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Oooh - wait. I just remembered. Every action block in every Party AI script in PS:T has a:

 

Global("PartyScriptsActive","GLOBAL",1)

 

condition already attached. Just setting that value to 0 would have the same effect as turning off the AI via the button.

 

(Actually, when I first noticed that, I was all excited as I thought maybe the only thing pressing the AI button did was toggle that value, but no - when you press that button, the scripts don't run at all. I was very sad. That would've been perfect.).

 

So I could just accomplish the same thing by adding a line to set that variable to 0 in TNO's script... I wish I could think of a way to toggle it back and forth, though (other than something kludgy and ugly like an item with a dialogue file), so you could have it -both- ways, and be able to toggle that variable and thus the AI on or off some other way besides the AI button, while always leaving the button on for banters. Anyone have any ideas?

 

Qwinn

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The more I think about it - no, Bearwere, I'm not sure nothing can be done about the button. The perfect solution would be to get it to stop whatever it's doing now when you press that button, and to just toggle a variable instead. I have no idea where the instructions on what to do when you press that button are. If it's in the executable, we're out of luck I guess, but maybe it's in some file type (.CHU?) that I'm not yet familiar with?

 

Qwinn

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Not sure how to setup a hotkey in a script, but it -is- the second best solution I can think of. If you can set up a hotkey to toggle a variable value, then you can leave your AI button on, and toggle actual Party AI with the hotkey instead.

 

The super-best option (if it's possible) would still be to make the button stop whatever it's doing now, and to just toggle the variable instead. If I could do that, then the whole AI problem would be gone, the button would still toggle AI as it's supposed to, and my banter scripts would run whether it was on or off.

 

Qwinn

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Bleah, I was hoping I'd find strrefs in the dialog.tlk file that would be called from the .exe, and would do things like turn scripts on and off... didn't find any that seem to match any actions I know of though.

 

Took a hex editor to the torment.exe... looks like it -is- handled there. But it also looks like there's a -slim- chance the hex editor could let me solve the problem too. There's an area where all the various scripts are mentioned... if I'm very lucky, and that section is tied to that button, I could maybe just erase the reference to, say, override script and that would keep it from turning that particular script off? Or I could be preventing override scripts from working at all. Heh. Eh, might be worth a shot just to see.

 

Qwinn

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Guest thisspaceforsale

Keep it up Quinn you beast. You'll iron out this latest wrinkle don't worry.

 

I bet there's a tonne of people like me just waiting here lurking, so they can begin a good new game of PS:T

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First menu says:

 

Install Banters?

 

1) Original (Broken) Banters, Normal AI

2) Fixed (Accelerated) Banters, with no Party AI

3) Fixed (Accelerated) Banters, with Party AI

 

If you pick 1), end install.

I don't see the point for option 1 because it's the same as pressing 'N' to 'Install Banters (Y/N)?'.

 

Also, if what you're saying is that some of the banters are 'broken' to the extent that you'll never, ever hear them, then you're not really accelerating them, you're enabling them. Zero times four, times eight, whatever, still equals zero. This is what I'm doing for DSotSC - a lot of good voice acting has been there for years that you'll never hear under any circumstances because all the proper tables weren't set up properly. But that's a mod, not a fixpack... :) It sounds like they're enabled, they're just rare, perhaps very rare. But as long as it's optional, no big deal. This is PS:T after all, so whatever 'outcry' you'll have over it you've probably already had, if you consider that outcry (which it ain't, compared to what happens in the BG2 Fixpack forum, or even the BG1 Fixroom).

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Alright, I think I've got the issue resolved to the extent it's going to be in the initial release. Here's how the FAQ will look now, it's somewhat different.

 

=========================

 

Q: A Banter Accelerator seems unusual to package in a Fixpack. What's with that?

 

A: I've yet to hear a confirmed report of anyone seeing a banter initiated by either Morte or Annah - both their banter files seem to be totally broken. And you'll barely ever see any from Grace or Nordom either. In the end, you -might-, if you play the game extremely slowly, see 6 to 10 banters - all from only two NPC's - out of a total 78 distinct fully voiced banters, most of the best of which have probably never been seen or heard before.

 

Since over half of the banters need to be "accelerated" in order to function at all, I decided at least some form of it needs to be in the Fixpack. I also decided to give it the full functionality of the kind of Banter Accelerator that most games have a Tweak mod for - that is, you can choose the interval between banters at installation time, rather than me picking one arbitrarily for you. Otherwise, we'd need a "dumb" accelerator in the Fixpack and a "smart" accelerator in some other tweak-like mod, which is just annoying and a recipe for compatibility issues. If I did hard-code it, I'd go with 20 minutes between banters, so if it still bothers you to have something configurable in a "Fixpack" install, use that. I marked 20 minutes as 'Default" in the menu.

 

Q: I've been playing quite a while now, and I haven't seen any "interparty banters" - what are you talking about?

 

A: One of two things is happening here. A) You've disabled your "Party AI" (small button near bottom right of the main screen). Game limitations require me to use the Party AI to implement the banter scripts. If you don't care for the game's Combat AI, I've provided the ability to toggle it on or off by pressing the "T" key (but only when Party AI is active). B) You need to wait a bit longer. Dak'kon doesn't start any banters - he's the quiet sort. That means you're not going to see any banters until you've picked up a fourth party member, which you can't do till a fair ways into the game. If you've got any two out of Morte, Annah, Grace or Nordom in your party and you haven't seen any banter for over the interval you chose at install, and you have your Party AI turned on, let me know, there may be a problem.

 

==========================================

 

 

Is that solution sufficient to satisfy your concerns, Bearwere?

 

Qwinn

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