Why don't modders bother with Hotfixes?

[theacefes]

I'm confused. You keep saying that we're all missing your point, but you're not quite clear on what your point is. Are you referring to a particular mod or did one just rub you the wrong way?

[igi]

As well as the effort of creating a fix (regardless of whether a fix is easy or hard to create), there is the effort of testing it, packacing it, translating it, distributing it and advertising it. The overhead is much more manageable able if you do several fixes at once.

 

There is also the matter of increasing complexity:

mod -> hotfixA

 

mod -> hotfixB

mod + hotfixA -> hotfixB

 

mod -> hotfixC

mod + hotfixA -> hotfixC

mod + hotfixA + hotfixB -> hotfixC

 

Finally, to me, it's only marginally more professional to say "download the mod, then hotfixA, then hotfixB, then hotfixC, then hotfixD..." than to say "download the mod, there is a known bug in circumstance A and circumstance B. a fix has been coded locally and will be in the next version of the mod, scheduled for xx/yy/zzzz"

[Azazello]

I truly believe that only Salk or Bursk could get away with starting a thread like this -- so soon after (during) the 'Super happy fun lucky thingy?' fiasco - and not get accused of flame-baiting.

 

Bravo.

 

I'm done.

[Bursk]

Hey, what'd I do?

 

Coincidently, I have thought a little about this subject over the years, and my big regret as a user of mods is that when hotfixes are mentioned and provided in a forum, and where they are simple .tp2 edits, the download rarely seems to get updated (at least to my knowledge) unless the author was already planning a new version.

 

Here are a few examples that I can think of:

 

http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?s...st&p=107715

 

http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?showtopic=8676

 

http://forums.pocketplane.net/index.php?PH...92243#msg292243

 

Thing is, I'm certainly not suggesting that a modder simply has to update their mod when fixes like this are provided by the community, but I wonder if some modders would do well to give permission for their mods to be updated with these fixes by a third party. If, for example, Andyr is too busy doing his degree-type thing, or Sim is too busy being the Mack, then it'd be great if there was some other way of getting the fixes integrated and their mods updated. I imagine it would also cut down on bug reports.

 

But I'm only a user of mods, and I suppose things look much simpler from where I'm standing.

[Salk]

I'm confused. You keep saying that we're all missing your point, but you're not quite clear on what your point is. Are you referring to a particular mod or did one just rub you the wrong way?

 

You are not Kulyok in disguise, are you?

 

Seriously, no. I really don't hold a grudge against any mod (or modder). It was a general kind of discussion and I hoped that the generic title of the Topic would hint to it, together with the fact that it's been posted in the General Mod Discussion.

 

English is not my native language and perhaps that's why my concepts don't come off clear enough.

 

Missing my point case#1 (aVenger): "Modders do this for free in their free time and even companies like Bioware or Blizzard don't release patches for every bug they find"

 

Missing my point case#2 (Kulyok/theacefes): "Are you referring to a particular mod?"

 

Missing my point case#3 (igi): "As well as the effort of creating a fix" <-- I was speaking of fixes already created but not made available.

 

My point is: I can't see so many big troubles in having a better organized support for the mod produced by keeping perhaps a stickied topic (since each modder has its own Forum usually) with already produced fixes to trivial bugs. It's not that a local fix becomes any better with monts. It's a fix, not wine... Also I would think that when a new version is finally released the "local fix" just might end up in it with exactly the same code that was created then.

 

Truth is, many bugs are locally fixed but often a new version is not released for months or even years (not to mention that sometimes the original author disappears maybe after collecting a numerous amount of bugs that were corrected only locally and then nobody else has the right to take his/her job in his/her hands because it's "copyrighted"). The argument "hotfixes might have a negative impact because are not tested enough" works only partly. Practically every new release has one or more new bugs, be they simple typos (and when they are in the .tp2, it can be bad) or others.

 

I got several interesting answers by you modders like igi's and berelinde's and I now understand a little better why most modders choose this way. Nevertheless I still think that it could be possible, in many cases, to make hotfixes available to people who decide to try them.

 

Are they untested? Well, by making people try them, more feedback can come to help the modder himself.

 

Hope I have been more clear this time.

 

Thanks!

[DavidW]

My point is: I can't see so many big troubles in having a better organized support for the mod produced by keeping perhaps a stickied topic (since each modder has its own Forum usually) with already produced fixes to trivial bugs.

 

I think what you're not allowing for is that this takes non-zero time. It wouldn't take very much time, but when people are busy (usually with things unconnected to modding) then it all adds up.

 

Personally, I read forums at work in little time windows when I want a break. It usually takes only a couple of minutes to look at and think about bug reports, so I normally do that when it's fresh in my mind. I don't have time to generate systematic hotfixes from those reports.

 

Sometimes (usually when I'm playing BG or BG2 myself at weekends at the time) I'll then go and fix locally. The fix could usually be extracted and turned into a hotfix with not much effort, but again it would take some effort (especially since it ought to be tested), so I don't bother.

 

Every now and again I actually have a window of time which I feel like using for modding. Then I do a systematic trawl through, fix all the bugs and test the fixes, and then do a release. But doing interim releases via hotfixes would just be inefficient and take up my time at times when I don't really have any time free.

 

Perhaps it would clarify things if I added this: it's not that sometimes I manage to free up time and then modding becomes a priority. Modding is never a priority at all, except perhaps occasionally when some actually-critical bug turns up. I do it entirely as a hobby. If tomorrow I decided I was just bored of the whole thing, I wouldn't feel any obligation at all to keep supporting SCS and SCSII. (In that circumstance I'd happily give them up to adoption if someone wanted them, obviously.)

[aVENGER_(RR)]

Perhaps it would clarify things if I added this: it's not that sometimes I manage to free up time and then modding becomes a priority. Modding is never a priority at all, except perhaps occasionally when some actually-critical bug turns up. I do it entirely as a hobby.

 

Somehow, it seems that a lot of players tend to ignore the fact that modders are just regular people, with jobs, families, studies and other real-life obligations. We are not in the same position as genuine game developers who make games for a living and enjoy all the benefits of being employed in commercial game development companies. In short, modders simply have far less time and resources at their disposal.

 

As David said, modding is just a hobby, and usually a low priority one. We do try our best to actively support our mods, but there are always other, more important things in our lives which are bound to take precedence.

[Salk]

I guess that at the end of it I should think of myself as "an ungrateful spoiled player" ( ), which is something I always tried to avoid to become.

 

Well, at least I didn't get the abused recommendation "If you don't like the way it is, then just do it yourself!"...

[theacefes]

I guess that at the end of it I should think of myself as "an ungrateful spoiled player" ( ), which is something I always tried to avoid to become.

 

Well, at least I didn't get the abused recommendation "If you don't like the way it is, then just do it yourself!"...

 

Hey! That recommendation works! Some of the best (imo) mods ever have come along as a result of that recommendation!

[Caedwyr]

Both mods I've made have come from my deciding that since I didn't like the way things were, I would have to do it myself.