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Concerning Hobbits.


LadeJarl

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Agreed, it would be better if Jackson was directing. Let's hope del Toro doesn't have Lucas syndrome and insist on everything being CGI...

 

:( I thought Jackson got a little too happy with the CGI in spots. Return of the King was probably the worst (termite ghosts, orcs horde encircling the good guy host at the end, etc.,.). Most any of the large battle scenes throughout the trilogy were a bit iffy.

 

Seems like they are planning on going CGI enhanced.

http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2008/04/25...e-hobbit-films/

 

McKellen and Andy Serkis will be back, Tymorra willing.

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He means CGI-enhanced live-action. I.e., rather than a totally animated evil creature #5, del Toro likes robot evil creature #5 with CGI touchups to not look dumb (think Samael in Hellboy or that awesome freak with the peacock-feather mane with eyes on the feathers in Hellboy 2).

 

It could spell disaster for Gollum, but otherwise, I think he can pull it off.

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There will be to movies: One based on the book, and one that bridges The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings.

 

I loved Pan's Labirinth, but what is it exactly that is going to bridge Hobbit and the LotR? Fanfiction? Or yet another account magically derived from that never-depleting underground stack of Tolkien's papers his family milks every other decade or so?

 

Gee I dunno. Aragon, Elladan and Elrohir riding against the Orcs? Aragorn's meeting of Arwen, fighting in the armies of Gondor and leading a fleet down to attack the Corairs of Umbar? The attack of the White Council's on Dol Guldor?

 

There's plenty enough material in the appendices to LoTR alone to fill up many films without even touching any other work. But of course most of you probably haven't actually read them.

 

And while we're on the subject of reading; GdT has said in more than one interview recently that he is not a fan of overused CGI and much prefers to use animatronics where possible, but, again - reading. It's just too difficult for some people when they could simply not bother and rather act indignant about something they are completely ignorant about.

 

Imbeciles.

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Gee I dunno. Aragon, Elladan and Elrohir riding against the Orcs? Aragorn's meeting of Arwen, fighting in the armies of Gondor and leading a fleet down to attack the Corairs of Umbar? The attack of the White Council's on Dol Guldor?

 

Hey, you know what? Why stop there? How about Sauron's return to Mordor and the re-raising of Barad-dur or the hilariously misguided attempt to recapture Moria by the Dwarves? The meetings and rivalry between Aragorn and Denethor when they were young men? What about Aragon and Gandalf traming around looking for Gollum.

 

No, no; I'm sure they'll have to invent some shitty fanfiction.

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Yes: you could also have;

 

-A never-before-mentioned dragon attacking dwarves in the Blue mountains!

-Corsairs sailing thousands of miles north to attack the Grey Havens!

-The Watcher in the Water swimming underground from Moria to attack Laketown!

 

I really enjoyed LOTR: BFME but hated BFME2 because of the godawful stupid liberties it took with the material.

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No, no; I'm sure they'll have to invent some shitty fanfiction.

 

All you have listed, derived from the appendices and reworked for a movie is fanfiction by definition, ie a derivative, interpretaion and expansion of the original work, more or less departing from the author's intentions. And that's exactly what I've meant.

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Yes, I know it would all be fanfic, but I'd really like to see Arwen and Aragorn meeting for the first time. I'd also like to see the early rivalry between Denethor and Aragorn, Aragorn and Thengel, the business with the Necromancer in Dol Gildur, the stealthy reinhabitation of Mordor, and maybe even the rebuilding of Laketown. If it was done well, I wouldn't complain.

 

As much as I love Tolkien, and I really do (been to my website, anybody?), I also enjoy well-rendered adaptations of his work. I am not talking about Unfinished Tales, ad nauseum. It's all just scraps and notes, and makes no sense to me. Tolkien himself said that he went about writing in a completely backward fashion, and was rather surprised to ever be published. I don't mind if somebody else takes a crack at it.

 

Edit: Come to think about it, I remember reading once that his goal was to create a mythology, a setting and world, possibly even one that others could inhabit and expand after he was gone. No, I don't think he would have minded a bit of fanfic.

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You do not need to be appologetic :crazyeyes: Fanfiction is only considered a bad thing by those who consider it 'shitty' by definition. The only thing I am not crazy about is selling both concepts under the Hobbit cover. I don't know how others feel about it, but I have not been overly excited about the endless attempts of Tolkien's (I presume) family to sell what they can of whatever they can find. To be honest, with that latest book - and have not have investigated its pedigree, so sorry if I am being silly- I am starting to be reminded of the mystery stories where the underdog writers were hired to write the 'accidently discovered' lost books.

 

The trend seems to catch on, with Robert Jordan's planed post-mortem release....

 

I can say that I can only admire George Martin who said "I don't want some f'ing hack finishing my book."

 

... I would just extend it to 'and pass it for my work.'

 

Fanfiction - and modding as its branch - exists because of the people's love for a work of fiction by an author so and so. But I think most of us are very honest about not faking being the original author of a character, plot etc. A non-savvy guy (who didn't read the UT or every word of every Appenice will have no knowledge of what comes from where.) Calling it Tolkien per se... not sure. TBH, I'd see with interest a good retell of Feanor's story, rather than a tie-in between Hobbit and LotR. After all, initially the tie-in was rather artificial.

 

And, to finish this winding and self-contradictory expose, I would also add that I lost my faith in Hollywood after they added a Happy Ending TM to the Painted Veil killing all the wonderful irony the book and the author are so good at. And that's for a published and complete work.

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I always thought that if they ever made a Hobbit movie, they'd have a hard time making Bilbo's finding of the ring look exactly how it does in the flashback/recap in first LoTR movie :crazyeyes: (same costume, same lighting, same setting etc).

 

I'd like to see more of Sauron regaining power, myself. In the Hobbit, he goes from being not even mentioned, to becoming the most powerful and feared thing in the world. I had to read about a lot of it on Wikipedia (I found Tolkien's writing style a little confusing in parts, so I only read the books immediately pertaining to LoTR, but I was about 10-12 when I actually did read the LoTR trilogy, lol.). A movie explaining Sauron's rise to power would be very, very welcome, in my eyes.

 

I thought the CGI (or at least the enhancements) in RoTK was pretty good (with the exception of the Black Gate. How many was it, 20,000 vs 100 or 200,000 vs 10,000, for crying out loud? :blush:). The King of the Dead, particularly, looked very nice, for a several-thousand-year-old ghost :groucho:.

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I'd also like to see... the business with the Necromancer in Dol Gildur [etc...]

 

As much as I love Tolkien, and I really do (been to my website, anybody?), I also enjoy well-rendered adaptations of his work. I am not talking about Unfinished Tales, ad nauseum. It's all just scraps and notes, and makes no sense to me.

A lot of this actually is in Unfinished Tales. For example, it has a long fragment in Gandalf's words telling about his finding of Thrain (Thorin's father) in Dol Guldur and what he and the other wizards were doing during at the time. But I suppose someone would have to piece it together to make a coherent story out of it. Unfinished Tales and the Silmarillion I consider to be a bit less of a greedy proliferation of paper than the umpteen Histories of Middle-earth that later came out. And apparently these two movies are going to draw from the History of the Hobbit which is more of the same.
To be honest, with that latest book - and have not have investigated its pedigree, so sorry if I am being silly
The Children of Hurin also appeared in Unfinished Tales ("Narn I Hin Hurin"), but you're not being silly; it is silly to try to make money off the same story in multiple forms, even if (or perhaps especially if) the original author is deceased.
The trend seems to catch on, with Robert Jordan's planed post-mortem release...
That's a bit different... I thought he basically completed his last book before his death. If his wife does more than compile and edit his notes (and they should be compiled into a cohesive story rather than just thrown out there), she should show up as a co-author.
I can say that I can only admire George Martin who said "I don't want some f'ing hack finishing my book."
That strikes me as a bit arrogant. I'd be honored if someone cared enough about my stuff to continue it. And being dead, I wouldn't give a flying dog's bollock what they did with it. If I had some control over it while still alive, I'd probably try to make sure it was someone with at least some skill rather than "some f'ing hack" - some authors have managed to ensure this before their deaths actually. I think Tolkien was ok with his son continuing his work - dunno if that extended to two dozen books with multiple versions of his notes.
I always thought that if they ever made a Hobbit movie, they'd have a hard time making Bilbo's finding of the ring look exactly how it does in the flashback/recap in first LoTR movie :crazyeyes: (same costume, same lighting, same setting etc).
Knowing Jackson, he took enough footage during LotR to use it in The Hobbit pretty much as is... A lot of it made it into the extended versions.
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I am sure there are various shades of gray in this bussiness, but to be honest, I find it difficult to be fond of this practice, particulary where big money are concerned. So, if Jordan's family is going to come up with another 800 pager because 'there was too much to put in one book' I'll consider the rumors that it was never Jordan writing the later books in the first place, but a bunch of authors true (joke, okay. :crazyeyes: )

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That's the one with lawnmower, right? (It has an alternate title that I can't remember right now.) BEST MOVIE EVER.

The US title was Dead Alive.

 

Over 300 liters of fake blood were used for the final scene. That's still the record. :)

 

The opening scene of Suicide Club (Jisatsu saakuru) damn-near fills a train station platform with blood. I'm pretty sure that takes the cake. That's just the opening.

 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0312843/

 

That being said, I think Del Toro is a fine director, even better than Peter Jackson. Aside from LotR, Jackson has made a few interesting films, but none great. Never did his direction stand out. Jackson gets a good deal of credit for the incredible art direction and effects work of WETA, but the direction and handling of LotR wasn't as infallible as people would like you to believe.

 

I am a bit worried about a second Hobbit movie, but we all need to make a few extra millions apparently.

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Clearly in the bridge movie, Frodo and Gandalf will fight Hellboy 2 and his army of technologically-evolved vampires. And nazis.

 

They'll be aided by Blade, Francisco Franco, and, strangely enough, Allanon from The Sword of Shannara. Should be pretty good, although I think I'll wait for the DVD.

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