More whining - three issues

[Capt Massacre]

Hi

TOB patch 26498, fixpack 6, tweakpack 5, DBG

I noticed three problems while trying various things:

 

1) It seems that the base THAC0 of your created fighter is 1 better than the one of NPCs like Minsc, at same level.

 

2) I had 1 * in 'two handed weapon' style, but yet already had the 'critical hits' bonus on the record sheet.

 

3) When I first meet Anomen in the CC, beginning of the game, he's level 11, has ** in mace, warhammer, sword & shield, and even spear.

 

In each case, it makes the game easier.

[Nythrun]

1. I can't replicate this. Double check your equipment and stats, and if the totals still don't make sense, post the details and we'll look more closely
   
2. You're actually supposed to get the critical hit bonus with the first star (the second star is just a worthless weapon speed bonus). The description, however, is dreadfully unclear and something we should update.
   
3. You'll get Fighter 7 -> Cleric 11 Anomen starting at around level nine; I don't consider this a bug, but I'm open to persuasion. This version of Anomen is due six proficiencies from his Fighter levels and four more from his Cleric levels: in the unmodded game he's shorted rather stiffly on proficiency stars, so this is something we fix.
   

Keep posting if you see something that doesn't make sense

[Capt Massacre]

(From the same game file)

1.

 

Korgan, L9, Base THAC0 = 12 (STR 18/77); Axe+1 -> 7

PC, Human Berserker, L8, Base THAC0 = 12 (STR 18/88); Sword of Chaos+2 ->6 (***** 2 handed sword)

 

Korgan's THAC0 is correct according to the rules, but mine?

 

Normally, the STR bonus is the same, and anyway it isn't included in base THAC0. I don't see that anything special can be included in the base THAC0 beside level.

 

2. So I take it that even in a vanilla game, it is in fact more or less useless to stack ** in this style?

 

3. I get Anomen L11 when PC is L8. Vicky: L8 Korgan: L9 but Yoshimo is L10; it's already surprising that Korgan is L9. I had ditched Minsc & Jaheira already, so only Yoshimo & PC entered the CC. Maybe the game averages the levels? If that's the case, it's not really fair since you haven't more xp when you have just ditched NPCs than when they're still in the party.

I think clerics can't use spears, contrary to druids.

[Guest Guest]

(From the same game file)

1.

 

Korgan, L9, Base THAC0 = 12 (STR 18/77); Axe+1 -> 7

PC, Human Berserker, L8, Base THAC0 = 12 (STR 18/88); Sword of Chaos+2 ->6 (***** 2 handed sword)

 

Korgan's THAC0 is correct according to the rules, but mine?

 

Normally, the STR bonus is the same, and anyway it isn't included in base THAC0. I don't see that anything special can be included in the base THAC0 beside level.

 

2. So I take it that even in a vanilla game, it is in fact more or less useless to stack ** in this style?

 

3. I get Anomen L11 when PC is L8. Vicky: L8 Korgan: L9 but Yoshimo is L10; it's already surprising that Korgan is L9. I had ditched Minsc & Jaheira already, so only Yoshimo & PC entered the CC. Maybe the game averages the levels? If that's the case, it's not really fair since you haven't more xp when you have just ditched NPCs than when they're still in the party.

I think clerics can't use spears, contrary to druids.

 

I don't know if your fighter thac0 is correct or not, but i do know that i have messed up thac0, despite having patched tob and the fixpack.

 

For example, my archer once got 6 extra thac0.

 

My theory, based on limited evidence, is that something somewhere is causing the bonuses you get to thac0 to double. For example, a level7 archer should have 14 base thac0, and then add to that +2 for 18 dex (missile wep being used), +2 for being level 6+, and +2 for 3 or more stars in short bow. that should be 8.

 

But i was getting a thac0 of 2, i.e. an extra 6, which just so happens to be twice the thac0 bonuses i mention...anyways, it could be a simple coincidence. And your one does not seem to double at any rate.

 

But, try creating a new character and see if you do get the extra thac0, i think you'll find it "fixed" itself...some strange bug that crops up very rarely i think.

[Nythrun]

Yeah, your berserker is doing a little a better than he ought to be. It's not something I've seen myself, though. Since the PC and NPCs use the same thaco0.2da there may not be anything we can do - at least not without understanding where the problem stems from.

 

Two stars in two-handed weapons isn't a particularly lucrative investment, no.

 

The game actually does take experience into account when using npclevel.2da to pick your joinable NPCs' levels - a newly created Fighter/Mage/Thief starts at level 6/6/6 or 6/6/7 but doesn't get the level 6 versions of NPCs, it's a little more generous (though I'm not clear on the details myself).

 

While Clerics can't spears, Fighters can, and Anomen is a Fighter dualled to Cleric. Every version of Anomen was shorted by four proficiency stars in the unmodded game; these missing points were added into Warhammers (which he gets eventually anyway) Sword and Shield (which befits his family heirloom) and Spear (which he mentions using adeptly in one of his irritating boasts). He can't use the spear proficiency any more after dualling (unless you change the rules about Clerics and Stabbing) but they're still there.

[Capt Massacre]

About the better base THAC0, I was wrong, it was our dear item Helm of Balduran making the difference, please forgive me for wasting your intellectual power on this non-issue.