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Anyone familiar with "Ice Knife" spell?


Qwinn

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Here's my issue. In Platter's Fixpack for PS:T, the following fix is done:

 

// Fixpack: "The "Ice Knife" spell caused a permanent decrease in To Hit when a party member was hit by it which lasted until the character was killed and resurrected. This fix prevents the To Hit effect of "Ice Knife" from working on your party at all."

 

I do agree that their fix is better than the original situation, but it's also not supported by the description of the item. The way it reads, it should affect everyone, including party members. I'd prefer to fix the issue by giving it a proper duration. But, the description doesn't state how -long- the decrease to ToHit is supposed to last, and I can't find that much detail on the spell searching the web.

 

Does anyone have a resource book that this spell came from that can give some details on that to-hit penalty, like if it is supposed to affect party members also and how long it lasts?

 

This is the description from within the game. As you can see, it's pretty vague on the point:

 

ICE KNIFE

Range: 50 ft.

Duration: Instant

Speed: 2

Area of Effect: Special

Saving Throw: Neg.

 

Daggers of ice can be conjured that not only strike the intended target but can spread cold as ice in water.

 

This spell fires a magical ice dagger at a target. The caster must successfully hit with his normal missile attack roll. A successful hit causes 2-8 pts. of damage per dagger. When the ice knife strikes a solid object or a creature, the knife shatters, releasing a wave of numbing cold. All creatures w/in a 5' radius must make a successful saving throw vs. paralyzation or suffer 1-4 pts. of cold damage and have a -2 penalty to their attack rolls. If the attack roll misses, the Ice Dagger will 'fall to the ground' 2 feet past (using the same trajectory that it originally took) the intended target. The Ice dagger will then remain on the ground for 2 seconds. If any creature touches this ice dagger during that time it will immediately shatter, and emit a cold wave (as above). If not, then after the elapsed time it will melt away. Finally, the caster gains 1 additional Ice Dagger for every 2 levels after 3rd level, for a maximum of 5 Daggers. The subsequent Daggers can be fired off by a subsequent 'click' on the same (or another) target.

 

 

Qwinn

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Does anyone have a resource book that this spell came from that can give some details on that to-hit penalty, like if it is supposed to affect party members also and how long it lasts?
Seems to be in Complete Arcane (I don't have it) but I wouldn't worry too much about what it says there (if it's even the same spell). Usually spells of this nature don't affect the party. As for the penalty duration, I suppose you could consult the book for that if there isn't one already. Or you could just pick something reasonable. Chill Touch, for example, gives a THAC0 penalty for 30 seconds.
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Ice Knife

 

Range: Special

Components: V, S, M

Casting Time: 1 rd.

Duration: Instantaneous

Area of Effect: Special

Saving Throw: Neg.

 

The wu jen casting this spell fires a dagger of ice at the target. The caster makes a normal attack roll as if attacking with a missile weapon, adjusting for the range from the attacker to the target (the knife has a long range of 30 yards, a medium range of 20 yards, and a short range of 10 yards). A successful hit causes 2d4 points of damage. If the ice knife misses its target, consult the rules for grenadelike missiles in the DMG to determine where it lands.

 

When an ice knife strikes a solid object or a creature, the knife shatters, releasing a wave of numbing cold. All creatures within a 5-foot radius must make a successful saving throw vs. paralyzation or suffer ld4 points of cold damage and become numb for ld3 rounds. Proximity to a major source of heat, such as a roaring bonfire, improves a creature’s saving throw by +2. Numbed creatures have their movement rates reduced by half and their attack rolls suffer a -2 penalty.

 

An ice knife that misses or is lost cannot be picked up by the caster (or anyone else) and thrown again. If the knife is touched, it instantly shatters, releasing its numbing cold. If a lost knife is not touched, it melts away in a pool of water 1 round after it was originally created; this melting occurs regardless of the environmental temperature.

 

The material components for this spell are a drop of water from melted snow and a tiny silver dagger.

 

Notes: Common in oriental lands; uncommon for Frost or Water mages; otherwise rare.

Personally, I'd keep Platter's version (perhaps for your tweakpack instead of the fixpack?), but that's just me.

 

Keep up the good work, I'm looking forward to it. :p

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Hmmm, 1d3 rounds. 6-18 seconds then.

 

I'll try and implement that, but if it becomes more than a little aggravating to implement I'll just go with Platter's party-immune version, yeah. It's not a huge thing, I was curious though.

 

Qwinn

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Hmmm, 1d3 rounds. 6-18 seconds then.

 

I'll try and implement that, but if it becomes more than a little aggravating to implement I'll just go with Platter's party-immune version, yeah.

I'd just give it a duration of 12 seconds, unless PST lets you specify a dynamic duration without resorting to hackery.
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"I'd just give it a duration of 12 seconds, unless PST lets you specify a dynamic duration without resorting to hackery."

 

It does, in a way, although perhaps this is what you mean as hackery. If I understand what I've looked at so far in the way of spell effects, I would basically create three effects, one at 6 seconds, one at 12 seconds and one at 18 seconds, each with a 33% probability of happening. Or something like that.

 

Qwinn

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It does, in a way, although perhaps this is what you mean as hackery. If I understand what I've looked at so far in the way of spell effects, I would basically create three effects, one at 6 seconds, one at 12 seconds and one at 18 seconds, each with a 33% probability of happening. Or something like that.
Yeah, that's what I meant by hackery :p. But the main reason I wouldn't bother with it is not because it's particularly hackish, but because if you redo everything to conform to the rule books, you're going to be "fixing" an awful lot and straying rather far from what a fixpack should be doing. 12 seconds as an average between 6 and 18 seems reasonable for simplicity's sake, given the game engine.
what if 2 or 3 effects fire simultaneously?
Then I guess they have potentially different durations, though that shouldn't be an issue.
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It actually works like this: the 6 second duration has a 100% chance of happening. The 12 second duration has a 66% chance of happening. The 18 second duration has a 33% chance of happening. It's a pretty elegant design, IMO, actually.

 

And actually all the spells in PS:T that have variable durations or ranges or anything random like that use this method, so it's not really hackery, it's the standard method.

 

But the main reason I wouldn't bother with it is not because it's particularly hackish, but because if you redo everything to conform to the rule books, you're going to be "fixing" an awful lot and straying rather far from what a fixpack should be doing.

 

No, I have no intention of getting that anal. The only reason I'm exploring this issue is because the way it comes in game (where the effect on party members is permanent) is definitely broken and needs fixing, and while I'm here I might as well try to fix it right, cause as nice as having it not affect party members at all might be, changing it to that isn't really within the scope of a fixpack either. Maybe for the tweak pack, as was suggested earlier.

 

And thanks for the encouragement, Daulmakan, I'm always glad to hear someone's looking forward to it :p

 

Qwinn

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Wow. I don't think I'm prepared to do spell hacking yet.

 

I started looking through the spells, and I can't figure out how some of these work. If someone is curious and has the game installed, look at Power of One in NI (SPWI219.SPL). This spell -does- work to increase the target's strength for some duration, but I have -no- idea -how- from looking at NI. All it seems to do is play BAMs and sounds, unlike Friends where you can actually see a "Charisma Bonus" effect. Where the heck is the effect or ability that gives the strength boost?

 

No, I'm missing something pretty basic about how these work. Until I've got a better grasp, I'm leaving Platter's version in place. I can do the spell-guru thing in later versions, once I -am- one.

 

Qwinn

 

EDIT: ZOMG... I just did a hex edit on Torment.exe and found two references to SPWI219... along with references to a bunch of other spells. Is all that stuff being handled in the .exe? Gaaaaah... and I was gonna add a tweak to make Friends and Strength spells always give their maximum boost... guess it's just gonna be Friends now... sheesh...

 

EDIT2: Hmm, reviewing the Ice Knife spell again, I'm seeing now that the effect causing that THACO -2 effect must also be in the .exe. About the only thing you -can- do is add an Immunity effect to party members, so yeah, that's the way it'll stay, for this and future versions, unless we start hacking the torment.exe file, heh. I'll correct the spell description to say that it only affects enemies.

 

EDIT3: Hrm. The Friends spell is also listed in the Torment.exe, even though everything it does is apparent in the .SPL file of that one. I'm wondering if this means that new spells can't be added to this game, that they require a reference in the engine. Not necessarily, but it's possible.

 

I already discovered via the hex editor that new joinable factions can't be added to the game... the variables that control which faction you belong to are in the torment.exe, and there's no room to add new ones. Well, you might be able to fake a new faction via quests and stuff, but you couldn't get it to show up in the character screen or get the item usability flags to work on it. Bummer. A good way to work it, if someone really wants to create a mod to add some depth to another faction like Indeps or Harmonium (which would be awesome), would be to add quests and stuff as an -application- to join that faction, but then have something interesting happen near the end of the quests that disqualifies you from actually joining.

 

Qwinn

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Holy hardcoded hell, Batman. :p

unless we start hacking the torment.exe file, heh.
Maybe that's an option... for a tweak pack, at least. The Widescreen Mod and Ascension64's charm patch do it for BG2.
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