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Branwen Romance


Wounded_Lion

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A rapist? Eww.

 

Well, to be blunt, being a rapist doesn't preclude one from valor. It doesn't have the slightest to do with valor...

 

Does Korgan rape anyone? Perhaps I've never had the victim in the party with him for long enough (I don't play with the banter accelator, so maybe I'm missing an interaction?). It's been a long while since I played through SoA and ToB in their entirety... but I can't remember a rape.

 

And you talked about both your project on G3, so, yes, of course I am aware of them.

 

Yes, but you'd have to follow up on them a bit to know anything about Lucius (the "another planned") because he hasn't been announced (just referenced in a thread on my forum). But relax; I'm just teasing you. In a friendly way. :)

 

aWL

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You have everything in the same forum, so since you linked to branwen, I checked out Pai'Na's thread too.

 

It's been a long while since I played through SoA and ToB in their entirety... but I can't remember a rape.

 

Korgan comments to a prostitute in a Dock's dsitrict that if women are not fighting him they are no fun. It is generally accepted as Korgan = takes his women by force.

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You have everything in the same forum, so since you linked to branwen, I checked out Pai'Na's thread too.

 

Your persistent denial of interest only further convinces me of your love for me. :)

 

Korgan comments to a prostitute in a Dock's dsitrict that if women are not fighting him they are no fun. It is generally accepted as Korgan = takes his women by force.

 

Pfft. That could mean several things; perhaps he was joking (as he is given to do), perhaps Korgan likes it rough, or perhaps he favors seduction (which is, if you think on it, a form of combat between a man and woman in which one eventually voluntarily surrenders to the other) of the chaste, haughty, innocent, or otherwise reticent. He never rapes Aerie despite an interest in her and ample opportunity to do so. He never attempts to rape a female PC. I don't think that line is explicit enough to damn his character, and it certainly doesn't have bearing on his valor. But you are, of course, entitled to your opinion.

 

aWL

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She does though in the original game (what little we have there). She starts with admiring Shar-Teel, who is an epithomy of the Might is Right attitude, and later berates her as non-valiant of spirit (which is the reason why I can't see Branwen liking Korgan tbh).

Admiring Shar-Teel for her battle prowess is not the same as considering all evil characters dishonorable, because they are evil; if Branwen did so, then she would be in direct contradiction to Tempus, whom she is a cleric of.

Which would be an out of character depiction of her.

 

ETA

I actually like Korgan precisely because he is evil shown in all its ugliness, and without the romanticised characterization that is so common nowadays.

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Admiring Shar-Teel for her battle prowess is not the same as considering all evil characters dishonorable, because they are evil; if Branwen did so, then she would be in direct contradiction to Tempus, whom she is a cleric of.

 

No, no, I am not equating the two, and I am not sure why you did. There are two interchanges between Branwen and Shar-teel in the original. At first she says how great Shar is (which seems to be very much in keeping with the 'normal' Tempus ideal.) Then Branwen gets into an argument with Shar-Teel, telling her that her vaiant behavoir on the battlefield is not backed up with the valiance of spirit. Which taken together with Shar's backstory (Shar is not exactly a dirty fighter, but she is given to the gender-based hatred and enjoyement of killing) and Branwen's own opposition to banditry to me feels like the indication of good inclinations in Branwen. I think in that definition of honor as pure bravery on the battlefield without chivalry Shar should be quite a favorite with a Tempus... that she is not indicates some sort of a conflict in Branwen.

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I think in that definition of honor as pure bravery on the battlefield without chivalry Shar should be quite a favorite with a Tempus... that she is not indicates some sort of a conflict in Branwen.

 

Not really, since Shar-Teel does not fit Tempus' idea of an honorable warrior, due to her recklessness and disrespect towards her (male) opponents.

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Not really, since Shar-Teel does not fit Tempus' idea of an honorable warrior, due to her recklessness and disrespect towards her (male) opponents.

 

I am starting to feel that Tempus Dogma is incompatible with *his* alignment. :) But Branwen doesn't berate Shar-Teel for recklessness or disrespect of males (in fact her compliment elevates Shar over males, so I actually think that she is sympathetic there, though she doesn't hate men). It sounds like she berates her really for being evil. It's these:

 

[bRANWEN 2] Shar-Teel seems to have more spine that a lot of the men in this party.

[bRANWEN 28] You are valiant of action Shar-Teel. A pity your spirit is mismatched.

 

I read the second sentence as valiant = heroic (good). In other words, what I see is that Branwen is satisfied with Shar-Teel's performance in battle. But not her nature (spirit).

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I read the second sentence as valiant = heroic (good). In other words, what I see is that Branwen is satisfied with Shar-Teel's performance in battle. But not her nature (spirit).

The second part (with which I agree with) seems to contradict the first one. The good aspect is precisely in the spirit, not in the fighting skills, which are possessed or not regardless of a benevolent disposition.

 

What's heroic=good in being a capable warrior? Kagain is the best warrior in the game.

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Shar-Teel is heroic in a battle - personal bravery. She is not heroic of spirit though, i.e. doesn't support the right cause, something worthy. (Shrug) That's how I read it. I dunno, I hate repeating myself again, but from who her opponents are (a pretty evil Tranzig), from how she delivers her speeches, and her use of words honor, worthy, valiant, etc, Branwen comes across to me as someone whose concept of honor is that of chivalrious honor, as opposite to the brutal strength+simple bravery honor. Maybe that's why her alignment shifted to TN from a CN. Who knows. I doubt though that BioWARE invested *that* much into it, or any historically accurate ideas. FR is a strongly modernized setting, with a bunch of let's pretend we're medieval just here and now things, and it is self-contradictory oh, so often. :)

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We mostly agree on Branwen, what I meant to point out was the idea of honor being related to heroism, which I don't subscribe to. Honor differs according to the culture, profession, and ultimately the particular person, and while some general common guidelines can be established, it's not a trait exclusive to good-aligned individuals.

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Exclusive - no, having more affinity with good folks than with the evil ones... I think so. Sorry folks, I should not be dragging it forever, but I am fascinated, and feeling like I am having half of my mod written for me. :)

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@aWL: there is a drider sprite in IWD2.

 

Interesting. I haven't played IWD2 yet, but I do have a copy of the game (recently purchased). Of course, now I have conflicting demands on my free time... writing Branwn vs. investigating importing the Drider... :) Thanks for the info.

 

@Domi & All: I'll likely express my further thoughts through the mod itself. You all are doing an excellent job of exploring this topic, anyway. :D

 

aWL

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