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Doing a test run with SCSII v7


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Posted
The effects are still around, it's just the stats.ids WEAPON_ENCHANTMENT alias that goes away, breaking script compiles.

 

And the reason I'm adding SCSII's DS early in the install is to have proper DS added to spells before kit mods copy them to innates. Any better idea for how to do that?

 

Didn't think about the "what about label_weapons and mod-added-items" angle. Thanks for that insight.

 

Can't you just install RR, then SCSII, then the kit mods?

 

I'm not 100% sure what's going on with the WEAPON_ENCHANTMENT thing, because to be honest I can't recall offhand how that bit of the SCSII code works. (The thing has become horribly complicated by now...) I'll check when I have a chance.

Posted

And the reason I'm adding SCSII's DS early in the install is to have proper DS added to spells before kit mods copy them to innates. Any better idea for how to do that?

 

Can't you just install RR, then SCSII, then the kit mods?

 

Well, yeah.

 

The cleanest way probably is installing a standalone DS early and stop doing the sandwiching, come to think of it. (What, raving semiautomatic demimegainstallmodintegrator, me? :) )

Posted

Hmm, it appears that I've encountered a major issue with my SCSII v7 run:

  • Although I did not install the "Make Watchers' Keep accessible between SoA and ToB" component, I was moved to Watcher's Keep after the SoA endbattle with Irenicus in Hell. I tested this a couple of times and the result is always the same. Any suggestions on how I'm supposed to deal with this?

EDIT - RESOLVED - a local issue was causing the problem. Apparently, I had installed the "Make Watchers' Keep accessible between SoA and ToB" a few months ago and neglected to restore my backed up BGMain.exe after doing my recent clean install. That seams to have caused my party to end up in Watcher's Keep after finishing SoA even in this game. Restoring the backed up BGMain.exe solved the problem.

 

 

Also, here are two minor issues that I've experienced a bit earlier:

  • The Shambling Mounds which can now be encountered in the Druid Grove during the Limited Wish quest grant no XP after being killed. I presume that they were added by SCSII but I'm not 100% sure.
  • Wraith Sarevok whom you fight in hell is drinking healing potions. As a spectre, I don't think he should.

Posted

A bit of random feedback:

 

Improved Irenicus (in Hell) was a very enjoyable battle. It's made more challenging (mainly due to the smarter demons) but it doesn't go overboard in terms of difficulty. I especially liked the fact that demons are now much more deadly as they are meant be formidable opponents according to PnP rules. If I may, I'd suggest adding this little tidbit to Irenicus' two Balors:

 

If a Balor is slain in the Abyss, it explodes in a blinding flash of light, inflicting 50 points of damage to everything in a 100-foot radius around the creature (saving throw vs. spell for half damage).

 

As you face Irenicus in the Abyss, it would be appropriate for his Balor allies to have this ability. The same goes for any Balors that might accompany Mellisan during the final battle in ToB.

 

 

On Teleport Field:

 

I noticed that certain enemies (mostly the Rakshasas in Suldanessellar) tend to spam 5-6 Teleport Fields on top of each other. IMO, this is slightly annoying and a bit unrealistic as well. I know it's practically impossible to detect cloud-based projectiles via IE scripting language, but still, if possible I'd prefer if you could limit the use of Teleport Field to one per screen.

Posted
A bit of random feedback:

 

Improved Irenicus (in Hell) was a very enjoyable battle. It's made more challenging (mainly due to the smarter demons) but it doesn't go overboard in terms of difficulty. I especially liked the fact that demons are now much more deadly as they are meant be formidable opponents according to PnP rules. If I may, I'd suggest adding this little tidbit to Irenicus' two Balors:

 

If a Balor is slain in the Abyss, it explodes in a blinding flash of light, inflicting 50 points of damage to everything in a 100-foot radius around the creature (saving throw vs. spell for half damage).

 

As you face Irenicus in the Abyss, it would be appropriate for his Balor allies to have this ability. The same goes for any Balors that might accompany Mellisan during the final battle in ToB.

I wondered about doing that, actually. The reason I leaned towards not doing it was that it's quite a large amount of damage to dump suddenly on a party, and I thought it had the potential to lead to ignominous reloads. Do you think that's being too solicitous?

 

I noticed that certain enemies (mostly the Rakshasas in Suldanessellar) tend to spam 5-6 Teleport Fields on top of each other. IMO, this is slightly annoying and a bit unrealistic as well. I know it's practically impossible to detect cloud-based projectiles via IE scripting language, but still, if possible I'd prefer if you could limit the use of Teleport Field to one per screen.

It's pretty hard to do... you could arrange it so that teleport field only gets cast if there isn't one there already, but that doesn't stop multiple simultaneous castings.

 

What do you think is unrealistic about it, though?

Posted
I wondered about doing that, actually. The reason I leaned towards not doing it was that it's quite a large amount of damage to dump suddenly on a party, and I thought it had the potential to lead to ignominous reloads. Do you think that's being too solicitous?

 

Well, I don't know if you have any difficulty level scaling in SCSII, but if you do, a possible solution would be to have the blast only occur on Core Rules or higher. That way, players can avoid unnecessary frustration by simply turning down the difficulty slider a notch. In any case, it's a valid PnP ability and it's application in BG2 is relatively small as the effect only applies to the few Balors who are actually slain within the Abyss.

 

It's pretty hard to do... you could arrange it so that teleport field only gets cast if there isn't one there already, but that doesn't stop multiple simultaneous castings. What do you think is unrealistic about it, though?

 

The main problem is that the teleportation frequency rises with each subsequent casting. Furthermore, the spell has no saving throw (even with the fixpack installed and despite the contrary description in the unmodded game) which makes multiple castings even cheesier.

Posted

I also noticed the Shambling Mounds giving no exp. in the Druid Grove, but I ignored it because it also happened in the Tactics component that improves the Grove as well.

Posted

I wondered about doing that, actually. The reason I leaned towards not doing it was that it's quite a large amount of damage to dump suddenly on a party, and I thought it had the potential to lead to ignominous reloads. Do you think that's being too solicitous?

 

Well, I don't know if you have any difficulty level scaling in SCSII, but if you do, a possible solution would be to have the blast only occur on Core Rules or higher. That way, players can avoid unnecessary frustration by simply turning down the difficulty slider a notch. In any case, it's a valid PnP ability and it's application in BG2 is relatively small as the effect only applies to the few Balors who are actually slain within the Abyss.

I don't have difficulty scaling. I'll give this one some thought.

 

The main problem [with Teleport Field] is that the teleportation frequency rises with each subsequent casting. Furthermore, the spell has no saving throw (even with the fixpack installed and despite the contrary description in the unmodded game) which makes multiple castings even cheesier.

 

I think we're now into SCSII design principle territory - I generally try not to change the existing in-game resources (spells and items) unless there's a really strong reason to, and I'm not sure I'm seeing that reason for Teleport Field. And given the spell does what it does, it seems entirely sensible for the rakshasas to cast lots of them.

Posted
Well, I don't know if you have any difficulty level scaling in SCSII, but if you do, a possible solution would be to have the blast only occur on Core Rules or higher. That way, players can avoid unnecessary frustration by simply turning down the difficulty slider a notch. In any case, it's a valid PnP ability and it's application in BG2 is relatively small as the effect only applies to the few Balors who are actually slain within the Abyss.
One thing I really appreciate of SCS (well actually I love pratically everything ;) ) is that it doesn't use the difficulty slider. I personally hate to increase the difficulty by raising the damage dealt by every single stupid creature. Anyway adding it to Core Rules seems a good solution, though it may lead to annoying death from time to time. I would suggest fire damage instead of magic one the save to be vs. breath instead of spell, but I'm probably just a fun of 3rd ed saving throws system. ;)
I think we're now into SCSII design principle territory - I generally try not to change the existing in-game resources (spells and items) unless there's a really strong reason to, and I'm not sure I'm seeing that reason for Teleport Field. And given the spell does what it does, it seems entirely sensible for the rakshasas to cast lots of them.
I agree with DavidW, though I play with mine Spell Revision's Teleport Field which allow a save. :cool:
Posted
One thing I really appreciate of SCS (well actually I love pratically everything ;) ) is that it doesn't use the difficulty slider. I personally hate to increase the difficulty by raising the damage dealt by every single stupid creature. Anyway adding it to Core Rules seems a good solution, though it may lead to annoying death from time to time. I would suggest fire damage instead of magic one the save to be vs. breath instead of spell, but I'm probably just a fun of 3rd ed saving throws system. :cool:

Install "Improved Difficulty Slider" from my tweaks after SCSII if you want the AI slider (including effects such as this one) to be separated from the damage slider.

Posted
I personally hate to increase the difficulty by raising the damage dealt by every single stupid creature.

 

Actually, that's not what I meant. I was thinking more along the lines of restricting some powerful spells (i.e. Imprisonment) and abilities (i.e. Assassination) to Core Rules and higher.

 

For example, here's how I handle difficulty level scaling in Rogue Rebalancing. (David, feel free to browse my scripts for more details) :cool:

Posted
And given the spell does what it does, it seems entirely sensible for the rakshasas to cast lots of them.

 

Yes, but not unnecessarily over the same area. For example, I'd be perfectly content if the rakshasas covered the main screen and the four adjoining screens with a single Teleport Field each, but not if they cast five Teleport Fields over a single, cramped area.

 

As noted above, I know that IE scripting is quite limited in this regard, but I thought I'd point it out in case you figure out a solution of some sort. :cool: In any case, it's not really a big deal as it doesn't occur very frequently.

Posted
Install "Improved Difficulty Slider" from my tweaks after SCSII if you want the AI slider (including effects such as this one) to be separated from the damage slider.
You're right, I had forgotten about it because I don't use IA enhancing mods that needs it anymore (SCS covers pratically everything now). Though I don't know how SCS handle Ascension, I mean...regular Ascension use the slider but I don't know if SCS's Ascension component still makes use of it.
Actually, that's not what I meant. I was thinking more along the lines of restricting some powerful spells (i.e. Imprisonment) and abilities (i.e. Assassination) to Core Rules and higher.
Sorry, we were suggesting the same thing then! How you've handle it is just perfect! :cool:
Posted

Well, I'm finally finished with my test run and I can say it's been great fun. ;) The ToB improvements were a blast, especially Sendai's Enclave, Abazigal's Lair and Demogorgon, great work all the way. All in all, my favorite SCSII component would probably be "Improved Fiends" as it finally rectifies a long standing weakness of BG2's fiendish opponents. These guys were severely underpowered in the unmodded game, and I'm glad that this components gives them most of their PnP toughness back. "Improved Mages" is a close second, though the increased loading times and the lag induced by opponent spawns and projected images knocked it down a bit. Smarter Dragons takes third place as it makes the dragon battles into a truly epic experience, especially if "Increased staying power" is added onto it. Overall, very nicely done. :cool:

 

 

Some minor bugs:

  • The polymorphed Drow outside of Sendai's enclave cast divination spells (complete with taunts) while in animal form if a stealthed/invisible party member approaches them. While it is kind of funny to have a deer shouting "Show yourself!" and proceed to cast True Sight I doubt that's what you intended. ;)
  • Apparently, the Yellow Dragon Armor (which was added by SCSII) can be worn together with Rings of Protection and similar items. I'm not quite sure whether that is intentional or not.
  • The two random encounter Glabrezus which ambush the party while they are tracking back through the labyrinth on the third level of Watcher's Keep don't grant any XP when killed.
  • Not sure whether this is SCSII related or not, but triggering the trap on Container13 in AR3017 crashes the game. The trap script is GT016.BCS i.e. it casts Incendiary Cloud. If a thief disarms the trap then everything works fine, the game crashes only when someone triggers it.

 

A few small gripes on precasting:

  • Even the third precasting option can get slightly annoying when every high level mage (mostly those in ToB) precasts Protection from Fire, Cold, Electricity, Acid and Magical Energy at the same time. This behavior sort of limits the tactical options for spellcasters, specifically, high level area effect spells such as ADHW, Sunray and Dragons's Breath lose a lot of their appeal when opponents become completely immune to their damage. My suggestion: slightly reduce the amount of protection spells that are precast so that the opponent always remains vulnerable to at least one element. For example, if the mage precasts Protection From Fire, Protection from Magical Damage and Protection from Cold then have him at least remain vulnerable to Electricity. That would open up a few more tactical approaches for those of us who don't have an Inquisitor in their party as it's nigh impossible to dispel protections cast by level 35 characters otherwise.
  • Furthermore, I think there are a few specific instances where it simply doesn't make sense for enemies to prepare for the battle and precast any spells at all (however, they could still use their contingencies, sequencers and triggers in these situations). For example, take the two Liches who guard Kangaxx's bones and Kangaxx himself (both forms). These guys say that they've been sleeping for the last thousand years or so, which makes it unrealistic for them to precast any spells IMHO, unless they can use magic in their sleep. :( The same goes for the sleeping Priest/Lich on the first level of Watcher's Keep (the one with the slippers) as well as any spellcasters who are freed from the imprisonment chamber in the Underdark (Alchra Diagott & co).

 

Some remarks on opponent levels:

  • Another small thing that slightly irked me was that every single Lich is now a level 35 character. In the unmodded game, generic Liches were level 20 at most, while a few specifically powerful ones (Shangalar, Kangaxx, Vongoethe) had somewhat higher levels. Since level 35 implicates near goodhood status, it would be more reasonable to keep the generic Liches at levels 20-25 and limit the higher levels to the unique ones. The main reason I'm mentioning this is that it's now impossible to use Turn Undead on Liches which is contraty to PnP rules.

 

Cosmetic suggestions:

  • This is just my personal preference, but if possible, could you per chance use the Icewind Dale animation and sound effeects for the Teleport Without Error spell? IMHO, it just looks so much better than the boring BG2 animation, especially when used by Demons. ;) The IWD files that you need are DDOORH.BAM and EFF_M09.WAV though you might want to check SPWI402.SPL (Dimension Door) for reference as well.

Posted

Thanks for the general nice comments, and also the specific feedback.

 

One quick question before I reply to yours: did the "Improved Abazigal's Lair" work out okay for you? I've not yet had any other reports of someone trying it.

 

Some minor bugs:

The polymorphed Drow outside of Sendai's enclave cast divination spells (complete with taunts) while in animal form if a stealthed/invisible party member approaches them. While it is kind of funny to have a deer shouting "Show yourself!" and proceed to cast True Sight I doubt that's what you intended.

That's hilarious, but yes, it's unintentional.

Apparently, the Yellow Dragon Armor (which was added by SCSII) can be worn together with Rings of Protection and similar items. I'm not quite sure whether that is intentional or not.

Unintentional; will fix.

The two random encounter Glabrezus which ambush the party while they are tracking back through the labyrinth on the third level of Watcher's Keep don't grant any XP when killed.

It's worse than that, actually: they're feeble glabrezus who don't use the proper Smarter Fiends script. That's one I've already caught and fixed locally.

Not sure whether this is SCSII related or not, but triggering the trap on Container13 in AR3017 crashes the game. The trap script is GT016.BCS i.e. it casts Incendiary Cloud. If a thief disarms the trap then everything works fine, the game crashes only when someone triggers it.

I have a nasty feeling it is SCSII-related. I thought I'd fixed it, in fact. Maybe not; I'll have a look.

 

 

Even the third precasting option can get slightly annoying when every high level mage (mostly those in ToB) precasts Protection from Fire, Cold, Electricity, Acid and Magical Energy at the same time. This behavior sort of limits the tactical options for spellcasters, specifically, high level area effect spells such as ADHW, Sunray and Dragons's Breath lose a lot of their appeal when opponents become completely immune to their damage. My suggestion: slightly reduce the amount of protection spells that are precast so that the opponent always remains vulnerable to at least one element. For example, if the mage precasts Protection From Fire, Protection from Magical Damage and Protection from Cold then have him at least remain vulnerable to Electricity.

But doesn't it seem a bit unrealistic for them to always leave those gaps? (Incidentally, liches get cold/electricity protection for free anyway.)

That would open up a few more tactical approaches for those of us who don't have an Inquisitor in their party as it's nigh impossible to dispel protections cast by level 35 characters otherwise.

On the other hand, by ToB you've got access to Ruby Ray, Spell Strike etc, so you can drop their anti-spell defences and then Breach them.

 

Furthermore, I think there are a few specific instances where it simply doesn't make sense for enemies to prepare for the battle and precast any spells at all (however, they could still use their contingencies, sequencers and triggers in these situations). For example, take the two Liches who guard Kangaxx's bones and Kangaxx himself (both forms). These guys say that they've been sleeping for the last thousand years or so, which makes it unrealistic for them to precast any spells IMHO, unless they can use magic in their sleep. ;) The same goes for the sleeping Priest/Lich on the first level of Watcher's Keep (the one with the slippers) as well as any spellcasters who are freed from the imprisonment chamber in the Underdark (Alchra Diagott & co).

I think that's largely fair enough. (I'm not sure I agree about the soul trap; who knows what it does to the flow of time?) SCSII scripting is fairly generic, with allowance made for individuals on a case by case basis when I come across cases that seem to need it. The slight wrinkle with this one is that at least some of those creatures would need contingencies (etc) that take into account their lack of long-term spells.

 

For what it's worth, incidentally, I'm pretty sure the demilich form of Kangaxx doesn't prebuff on any setting.

Another small thing that slightly irked me was that every single Lich is now a level 35 character. In the unmodded game, generic Liches were level 20 at most, while a few specifically powerful ones (Shangalar, Kangaxx, Vongoethe) had somewhat higher levels. Since level 35 implicates near goodhood status, it would be more reasonable to keep the generic Liches at levels 20-25 and limit the higher levels to the unique ones. The main reason I'm mentioning this is that it's now impossible to use Turn Undead on Liches which is contraty to PnP rules.

Blame the vanilla game to some extent. My algorithm is (roughly) to change each spellcaster's level to the lowest level at which it could cast all its memorised spells. Liches often get silly numbers of spells, which entails they have very high levels.

 

This is just my personal preference, but if possible, could you per chance use the Icewind Dale animation and sound effeects for the Teleport Without Error spell? IMHO, it just looks so much better than the boring BG2 animation, especially when used by Demons. :cool: The IWD files that you need are DDOORH.BAM and EFF_M09.WAV though you might want to check SPWI402.SPL (Dimension Door) for reference as well.

 

I'll have a look sometime.

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