Cast at Level: X

[Demivrgvs]

Maybe you already know it but I've just discovered that non-spellcaster characters always use magical abilities on items as considered to be of lvl 1, whatever is the "cast at level" value set on "Cast Spell" effect.

 

Can someone confirm this?

 

That would be unfortunate because it means that instead of using original spells all items should have their custom spell (to allow non-spellcasters to use them at higher levels) or custom effects that simulate the spell. But what I don't know is how effects without "caster level" are affected by dispel effects.

 

For example: Gargoyle Boots directly use a stoneskin effect instead of casting the spell, does this stoneskin effect has any chance of surviving a dispel attempt, or it's always dispelled?

[Avenger]

I thought the items always have level 10.

[Caedwyr]

Yes, non-spellcaster creatures always cast as though they are level one. One way to get around this is creating special versions of the spells so that the level 1 of the spell is equivalent to the normal level X you want them to cast at. Another way is to give that character class levels. I ran into this issue when I was making PnP Celestials, which is why the devas and planetars are all fighter-mages or fighter-cleric multiclass characters.

[Guest helpem]

I am under the impression that items always at cast at Lv1 (ignoring effects labeled Lv2 and above) but most items were configured by the developer such that the Lv1 effect (a custom effect) mimics a higher level (Lv10 or whatnot). I could be wrong, however.

[Demivrgvs]

Yes, non-spellcaster creatures always cast as though they are level one. One way to get around this is creating special versions of the spells so that the level 1 of the spell is equivalent to the normal level X you want them to cast at. Another way is to give that character class levels. I ran into this issue when I was making PnP Celestials, which is why the devas and planetars are all fighter-mages or fighter-cleric multiclass characters.

I know that creatures without mage or cleric's levels cast at lvl 1 from their known spell, but I didn't know spells cast from items cannot be set to different levels than 1.

I thought the items always have level 10.

Items that use "cast spell (146)" effect are usually set to cast at level 10, but it doesn' matter if the character is not a arcane or divine spellcaster depending on the spell (e.g. druids always cast at lvl 1 when using arcane spells from items). At least it seems so during my recent tests.

[Nythrun]

does this stoneskin effect has any chance of surviving a dispel attempt, or it's always dispelled?

 

Not really It's boot12a.spl (an innate) to the rescue here.

[Demivrgvs]

It's boot12a.spl (an innate) to the rescue here.

If I've correctly interpretaded your suggestion by flagging an item custom spell as "innate" it will be cast taking into consideration the character level when determining its effects and dispel checks?

[devSin]

Innate spells are based off character level, yes. I don't remember the rules for multiclass characters, so you'll need to check if it's total character level, level of highest class, or just level of first class, but they don't need to be spellcasters to get the appropriate ability level. I also don't recall how this is handled by non-PC classes (generally, these guys don't pay any attention to level for anything, but I think they use the spell ability corresponding to whatever their single-class level value is).

 

Effects attached to a creature that come from spells store the level of the caster for use by the dispel effect (when coming from an item, there is no caster level, so the effects will always get dispelled regardless of the character's level when the item was used).

 

It's debatable as to whether this is actually worthwhile or whether you'd even want item abilities to have a "caster" level (you used an enchanted item; you didn't cast one of the spells in your repertoire), but it should work.

[Nythrun]

Actually, simulated spell effects from items do inherit the casting .cre's level for dispel purposes (and I don't think Cast At Level does anything to change dispellability, though I don't recall testing this so well).

 

It should be an averaged level for multi-classes - Bounty Hunter 10 -> some other class will eventually get the maze traps. Only the first level should count for classes > 20 (who wants to test all of them though? Not I )

 

I'm just jawing about how you need a non-wizard, non-cleric spell with multiple extended headers for "cast at level 10" to be meaningful. It's something I wanted, and did, a while back, but I won't say it's a great idea.

[Demivrgvs]

It's debatable as to whether this is actually worthwhile or whether you'd even want item abilities to have a "caster" level (you used an enchanted item; you didn't cast one of the spells in your repertoire), but it should work.

It's not an outstanding problem, I've just encounterd it modding some items. For example we can take the aforementioned Boot of Gargoyle. The item can directly apply a stoneskin effect, but this way it won't be dispellable by Breach (not being a spell and thus not having a spell school, sencondary type, etc). The boots can instead cast the wizard's spell Stoneskin (spwi408.spl), but the user will always cast the spell at level 1 no matter the value you've put in "cast at level" (unless he is a mage). Creating a custom spell (better, an innate) seems the best solution, though it probably has its hidden drawbacks too. Finally it comes into play the caster level check for dispel purposes.