Dynaheir Suddenly Dies?

[DavidNowlin]

I don't know if this has anything to do with the NPC project, but I thought you guys might know what's going on.

 

I've been running around with Dynaheir and Edwin in the same party, sort of hoping to see them duke it out eventually, but something strange is happening. Pretty much right after I got to Baldur's Gate, I did a few quests and then went to rest at an Inn and when I woke up in the morning, Dynaheir suddenly and without any apparent reason, just dropped dead. Edwin rejoiced. Minsc cried. And I scratched my head.

 

I thought it might be a bug, so I went back to my quick save and tried it again. She died again. So I went outside and rested in a different place. Same result. Knowing Edwin as I do, the thought eventually occurred to me that he might be behind it. So I kicked him out and rested again. This time she didn't die.

 

If Edwin poisoned her or something, well I just think that's brilliant, but there wasn't any dialogue about it or anything, so I doubt that's what's going on. Just to make sure, I reloaded again, watched her die again, and then I went and had her resurrected, thinking she'd tell us wtf happened. She said nothing. I used cheats to advance the game clock and the real time clock hoping that a dialogue would pop up that would shed some light on things, but nothing happened.

 

I don't wanna keep playing and do a bunch of stuff only to realize that this has somehow screwed up my game, so I thought I'd ask if anyone else ever had this problem or knew what was causing it. If it's a plot thing, like I say, I'm all for it. If it's a bug, I'd like to know about any possible side-effects so I can decided if I should try to avoid it (by kicking Edwin out permanently). But I really don't want to do that, because I really *do* wanna see Dynaheir riddle his arrogant corpse with magic missiles.

 

Speaking of which... Here's another question that doesn't really belong here. If Edwin dies in BG1 (in BGT) does that screw up his appearance in SoA? I remember from the last time I played it (not in BGT) that there was a dialogue response for just such an occasion (Edwin?! Didn't you die? // I may have...) but I'm afraid that if a variable gets set that tells the game that he's dead he won't spawn for the Thieves' Guild quests. I'm only asking cause I wanna have my cake and eat it too. I wanna kill him, but I want him to come back.

 

 

Any info would be appreciated.

[cmorgan]

At some point in the Edwin/Dynaheir conflict, Edwin has a simple script - that says kill Dynaheir. It doesn't call any dialog, it doesn't do anything fancy - just kills her. If you resurrect her and go on, you will be fine - but I am pretty sure she never comments on it. I cannot remember if this was vanilla game behavior, but I think it was. I always roleplayed the poison thing, and figured the icy silence was enough, because after that level of fight, really, what is there to say?

 

There is nothing that happens in Tutu that gets carried over to BG2. And on BGT, Edwin will still appear - you even get to comment something like " I killed you last time", just like you said

[DavidNowlin]

Excellent. Exactly what I wanted to hear. Thanks for replying.

[DavidW]

At some point in the Edwin/Dynaheir conflict, Edwin has a simple script - that says kill Dynaheir. It doesn't call any dialog, it doesn't do anything fancy - just kills her. If you resurrect her and go on, you will be fine - but I am pretty sure she never comments on it. I cannot remember if this was vanilla game behavior, but I think it was.

 

I think it's BG1NPC, actually.

[cmorgan]

Strange. Usually project authors did more of a setup or after-talk. I do remember bugfixing this, but nothing about why it was added in the first place. I will go ancient-forum-diving and see why this was done.

[Domi]

I did it. IIRC, there is a timer after one of the dialogues where Ediwn insists to the PC that Dynaheir should be killed. I am not sure, but I think there is a check on PC's levels or something on an option where you forbid to kill Dynaheir, and if you fail the check, Edwin does it. I find that it's better to be treated silently, because well, that's how murders are done.

[Gorilym]

I'm not the type to have Dynaheir & Edwin in the same party, but anyway:

 

While it would be quite silly if a dialogue box popped up with *Edwin puts poison in Dyna's drink* or Edwin saying "I am now going to murder Dyna" ; it also seems silly to not have any repercussions/post-talks. Realistically (in a manner of RP-speaking), I know I would suspect Edwin if Dynaheir suddenly dropped dead, and at least demand an explanation; if not outright execute him.

 

Also, from DavidNowlin's account it seems like Dynaheir does not die a permanent death as she can be resurrected - intentional? What would be the point of Edwin killing her if she's a mere trip to the temple away from returning?

[cmorgan]

Ahh - I see now -

 

the current addition to Edwin's .baf:

/* IF X#EdwinDynaheir=5, GTE(X#EdwinKillsDynaheir) Edwin kills Dy */
IF %BGT_VAR%
PartyRested()
GlobalTimerExpired("X#EdwinKillsDynaheir","GLOBAL")
InParty(Myself)
InParty("dynaheir")
Global("X#EdwinDynaheir","GLOBAL",5)
CombatCounter(0)
!See([ENEMY])
!StateCheck(Myself,CD_STATE_NOTVALID)
THEN
RESPONSE #100
SetGlobal("X#EdwinDynaheir","GLOBAL",6)
END

IF %BGT_VAR%
InParty(Myself)
InParty("dynaheir")
Global("X#EdwinDynaheir","GLOBAL",6)
!StateCheck(Myself,CD_STATE_NOTVALID)
THEN
RESPONSE #100
Kill("dynaheir")
END

IF %BGT_VAR%
InParty(Myself)
Dead("dynaheir")
Global("X#EdwinDynaheir","GLOBAL",6)
THEN
RESPONSE #100
SetGlobal("X#EdwinDynaheir","GLOBAL",7)
END

set from

IF WEIGHT #-2 ~%BGT_VAR% Global("X#EdwinDynaheir","GLOBAL",4)~ THEN BEGIN EDPC3
SAY @225
+ ~InParty("minsc") InMyArea("minsc") !StateCheck("minsc",CD_STATE_NOTVALID)~ + @226 DO ~SetGlobal("X#EdwinDynaheir","GLOBAL",5) RealSetGlobalTimer("X#EDDynaTalkTime","GLOBAL",7200)~ GOTO EDPC3.1
++ @227 DO ~SetGlobal("X#EdwinDynaheir","GLOBAL",5) RealSetGlobalTimer("X#EDDynaTalkTime","GLOBAL",7200)~ GOTO EDPC3.2
++ @228 DO ~SetGlobal("X#EdwinDynaheir","GLOBAL",5) RealSetGlobalTimer("X#EDDynaTalkTime","GLOBAL",7200)~ GOTO EDPC3.3
+ ~Gender(Player1, FEMALE)~ + @229 DO ~SetGlobal("X#EdwinDynaheir","GLOBAL",5) RealSetGlobalTimer("X#EDDynaTalkTime","GLOBAL",7200)~ GOTO EDPC3.6
++ @230 DO ~SetGlobal("X#EdwinDynaheir","GLOBAL",5) RealSetGlobalTimer("X#EDDynaTalkTime","GLOBAL",7200)~ EXTERN ~%DYNAHEIR_BANTER%~ EDPC3.4
++ @231 DO ~SetGlobal("X#EdwinDynaheir","GLOBAL",5) RealSetGlobalTimer("X#EDDynaTalkTime","GLOBAL",7200)~ + EDPC3.12
END

IF ~~ EDPC3.1
SAY @232
= @233
++ @234 + EDPC3.5
++ @235 EXTERN ~%DYNAHEIR_BANTER%~ EDPC3.4
++ @236 GOTO EDPC3.2
+ ~Gender(Player1,FEMALE) CheckStatGT(Player1, 15,CHR)~ + @237 GOTO EDPC3.8
+ ~Alignment(Player1,MASK_EVIL) !Gender(Player1, FEMALE)~ + @237 GOTO EDPC3.7
END

IF ~~ EDPC3.2
SAY @238
= @239
++ @240 + EDPC3.5
++ @235 EXTERN ~%DYNAHEIR_BANTER%~ EDPC3.4
++ @241 GOTO EDPC3.3
+ ~Gender(Player1,FEMALE) CheckStatGT(Player1,15,CHR)~ + @237 GOTO EDPC3.8
+ ~Alignment(Player1,MASK_EVIL) !Gender(Player1,FEMALE)~ + @237 GOTO EDPC3.7
END

IF ~~ EDPC3.3
SAY @242
IF ~~ THEN DO ~SetGlobalTimer("X#EdwinKillsDynaheir","GLOBAL",15000)~ EXIT
END

IF ~~ EDPC3.5
SAY @243 ~That will be done in due course.~
IF ~~ THEN DO ~SetGlobalTimer("X#EdwinKillsDynaheir","GLOBAL",15000)~ EXIT
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN EDPC3.6
SAY @244 ~Oh, you do not want to kill the witch - that’s bloody brilliant! Your sense of humor is growing on me, I swear! (I do hope she is joking...)~
+ ~!CheckStatGT(Player1, 15, INT)~ + @245 GOTO EDPC3.9
++ @246 EXTERN ~%DYNAHEIR_BANTER%~ EDPC3.4
+ ~InParty("minsc") CheckStatGT(Player1, 15,INT)~ + @247 + EDPC3.11
+ ~!InParty("minsc") CheckStatGT(Player1, 15,INT)~ + @248 + EDPC3.11
++ @249 + EDPC3.10
END

IF ~~ EDPC3.7
SAY @250
IF ~~ THEN DO ~SetGlobalTimer("X#EdwinKillsDynaheir","GLOBAL",15000)~ EXIT
END

IF ~~ EDPC3.8
SAY @251
+ ~InParty("minsc") CheckStatGT(Player1,15,INT)~ + @252 + EDPC3.11
+ ~!InParty("minsc") CheckStatGT(Player1,15,INT)~ + @253 + EDPC3.11
+ ~!CheckStatGT(Player1,15,INT)~ + @254 + EDPC3.9
++ @240 + EDPC3.5
++ @255 + EDPC3.12
END

IF ~~ EDPC3.9
SAY @256
IF ~~ THEN DO ~SetGlobalTimer("X#EdwinKillsDynaheir","GLOBAL",15000)~ EXIT
END

IF ~~ EDPC3.10
SAY @257
IF ~~ THEN DO ~SetGlobalTimer("X#EdwinKillsDynaheir","GLOBAL",15000)~ EXIT
END

IF ~~ EDPC3.11
SAY @258
= @259
IF ~~ EXIT
END

IF ~~ EDPC3.12
SAY @260
IF ~~ THEN EXIT
END

 

So there are paths you can take that modify Edwin's nefarious machinations, but just as called for in dealing with the Red Tower, either intelligent subtlety or blunt force trauma is called for.

 

Sample>>

 

PC: ~Truly, Edwin, it hardly seems like a feat to do away with the witch, before you know what she’s after. Besides, she seems skilled in her craft, and I fear for your safety.~

 

Ed: ~Let me set your mind at ease – I am perfectly capable of doing away with the witch. However, your concern for my well being is unexpectedly touching, and gaining more insight into the Wychlaran’s plans might actually prove beneficial.~

 

 

PC: ~I shall not suffer such indignity as the murder of a comrade at arms. Dynaheir is under my protection, Edwin, and you’d better not forget it.~

 

Ed: ~This feeblemindedness has affected you more than I had originally thought. Perhaps you have tiny illithid dwelling inside your rapidly shrinking skull. If I could actually bring myself to care, I would feel sorry for you. As it is, though, I just hope it is not contagious.~

 

This makes sense to me. I take your point, Gorilym, but the problem is that in FR terms, that resurrection is available short of some extraordinary means, and it becomes Edwin's fault for not taking PC out too and stopping the ressurection - which would make it obvious he was behind it. Technically, he has fulfilled his duty. Hekilled her. So he is less likely to be tortured by superiors for that offense (though it being Thay, they really don't always need an excuse, as not all are LE...).

 

 

Here, we step on the edge of "suspension of disbelief" for storyline. A hardcore roleplayer might summarily dismiss Edwin or even attack him with no proviocation, or let her body lie where it is. Another might want an investigation, but doing that kind of mini-mod always ends up with the difference between internal consistency and player control. A player wants Ed and Dy together for their friction. But to be truly believeable, Edwin either kills Dynaheir or is killed, and the PC is really out of the picture (and of Edwin does it right and hires Monaton he would simply execute most of the party to leave no witnesses - and game restart).

 

Though if someone writes a minimod or extension of the Thayvian conflict, there is an edwin romance for BG2 that some folks like. There might be good opportunities to look at those materials and build an extension of the BG1NPC material dealing with an investigation of Dy's murder, etc.

 

(p.s. - the code above is not verbatim, as I did some tra stitching on the fly, so if someone is looking at it and seeing errors the above should not compile.)

[Domi]

I didn't want a permanent death. I just feel it would be too intrusive, so I let the player decide to res her or not (gods see, I get enough heat for Coran running away with the cook!) As to why there is no post-talks... well, bear with me, it was 100 years ago it seems, but iirc I decided that the in-game reaction was sufficient. It felt like an Easter Egg, so I didn't invest as much time into it as in the Blushing Mermaid sequence, or Edwin's encounter with his superiors.

[Daulmakan]

(gods see, I get enough heat for Coran running away with the cook!)

Since we're at it, I'll ask: Does he return after that? Where/when?

[Domi]

Nope, he doesn't. You can only stop him from going. He either drowns in the mine or eventually wanders away.

[Daulmakan]

Thanks for the tip.