Domi Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 The crew over at SHS and on private forums contribute conflict reports and debug mods, and send the info to the original authors nicely. In this case, they will probably be the guys to ask why Dynaheir romance is not installed. Link to comment
cmorgan Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Hey, cool - I will ask Leomar and Leonardo Watson on the sites what isn't working with SMM - they only have PARTIAL INSTALL - 17.1_BG1NPC-v14.exe [x] Required Modifications for Version 14, September 18, 2007 [x] Banters, Quests, and Interjections [x] Give Edwin his BG2 portrait. [x] Give Minsc his BG2 portrait. [x] Add Non-Joinable NPC portraits to quests and dialogues [x] Branwen's Romance Core (teen content) [x] Shar-Teel Relationship Core (adult content) [x] Alora's Starting Location. -> Alora Starts in the Hall of Wonders. [x] Make Shar-Teel Unkillable until In Party [x] Bardic Reputation Adjustment [x] Sarevok's Diary Adjustments -> SixofSpades Extended Sarevok's Diary [x] Player-Initiated Dialogues and have the v14 instead of v16 - we may have actually solved some of the difficultirs for them/with them over the past few months. Like us, they have the "time difficulty". Anyone playing a full detailed run with BG1NPC needs to play it for months witth all sorts of parties before hitting most of the content. It must be fifty times as long with such a big install. SMM installer readme, v1.21: http://www.shsforums.net/index.php?act=att...ost&id=9705 (Sorry for the OT, but it is tough to read all forums everywhere and keep up with everything ). Link to comment
Domi Posted June 22, 2008 Author Share Posted June 22, 2008 Yakes, they are not installing ANY of the female-player romances either. I am sorry if I come accross too harsh, but this is not an acceptable way of distributing BG1NPC. I suggest that they remove it from the installation package until they can implement the install in full. Link to comment
cmorgan Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Well, I feel your pain, Domi, but they aren't distributing BG1NPC, they just provide a link to it and the player downloads it and puts it in the directory. The configuration is likely to have to skip a bunch of components, given the difficulties of any kind of Mega. I do think, though, that their concept is the next [Tutu/BGT/BP] wave, each of these community attempts brought new successive waves of players to enjoy the mods. I'd rather they put it in and keep pushing for the rest of the components to be included. After all, we don't force anyone to install all of the package - in fact, we break everything we can down into customizable components specifically because players want choices. But your bigger point is well taken. That is alot of content that isn't making it into an SMM configured game. If there is something that we can do to make sure more of our stuff is working on an SMM install, and assist them in expanding what they recommend and install for players, we should try to do it - especially given that not all modding communities are not really working for the whole "technical compatibility" thing. EDIT: I have scrambled some things - two separate projects, bith working alongside eachother. Guides to the various efforts: http://www.shsforums.net/index.php?showtopic=20555 Azzazelo is the mega Diogenes... always poking about looking for an honest dude/project, and keeping tabs on them. I thought SMM was part of this: BiG World Project http://www.shsforums.net/index.php?autocom...&showcat=72 I have heard from Leomar that they are working on a new release of BiG World, which is the latest in these efforts at stabilizing and making megas available for beginners and old hands alike. BiG World Project (Leonardo Watson and Leomar and a large team of folks) already have integrated all of the content and most of the tweaks from BG1NPC v16 and the Music pack into their Mega packaging. erebustant's stuff has incorporated BG1NPC and he has helped us out with both bug identification. http://www.shsforums.net/index.php?showtopic=22224 The OP is using an initial offering by BigMoshi, http://www.shsforums.net/index.php?showtopic=30695 and his homepage http://my.opera.com/bigmoshi/ I will check with BigMoshi, on these items, because his work is related but separate - he is also working with the community, but has released the SMM as part of his ongoing work - and it is based on erebusant's Mega install. Perhaps he can say why he dropped those components. Link to comment
Domi Posted June 22, 2008 Author Share Posted June 22, 2008 Effectively they are distributing BG1NPC in a *severely* stunted form (They exclude 4 romances, and the one they included seems not to be working, and I kindda doubt that Shar's does.). When we offer our components as optional, we let the player decide. I find deciding for the player unacceptable. I think that untill such time as they find a way to make BG1 work in its entirety, the folks who want to play BG1NPC, need to find other ways of installing the module. It is because I UNDERSTAND that this can be the next BP, that I would like to insist that the huge portion of BG1NPC was not cut out of it. Link to comment
cmorgan Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 I understand I will contact BigMoshi and ask about the status. (The other two efforts already include all of BG1NPC). Link to comment
Domi Posted June 22, 2008 Author Share Posted June 22, 2008 Sounds good, thank you for handling this! Link to comment
Leomar Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 No, SMM is not a part of the BiG World Project (BWP). At the moment the situation looks like: SMM for beginners BWP for experts The problem of BigMoshi's SMM is, that it is not supportet since January. Much new modversions are released and the SMM is not updated, since then. The gamers which try SMM are helpless, they don't get the new mod-versions, because the older ones are included in the SMM and get no help from BiGMoshi about their problems. Therefore it is good that you try to contact BigMoshi, so we get the info if he wants to support SMM again. Otherwise SMM is outdated and should not use from beginners. Like cmorgan said, in addition we try with our next BWP release, that beginners can use our megamod, too. We see, that the important thing is, that such a megamod must be easily to install and supportet for all the gamers which use it. You opened this thread, so I can post here the text I've send to cmorgan: We hate it a little bit, that users see our guide only for experts. It would be our main change in the BWP, that we make the BWP userfriendly as we can, so for beginners, too. For that we have startet a discussion at SHSForum and in our German Forum. The result of the discussion are given in both forums yesterday. So you can see here, which mods we will support in such a megamod, and which not. We want a stable, bugfree and a playable balanced world with great content. Therefore we want/must remove mods from our guide. More about that you can read in the above links. In addition we work on a new installation-tool (BiG World Setup) since February and it will be released in the next months (July/August). With this new GUI-Tool you can download, unpack, fix and install all the mods there are listed in the BWP. This BiG World Setup is created for beginners and for experts, so both with different knowledge of mods can use it easily. This is our goal and we work hard for it. The next BWP release (v6) includes the BiG World Setup with all needed descriptions for the tool in the guide. The guide is complete reworked, then. With a chapter for beginners and with informations about the whole process for the experts. We try to change the instructions to a nice readable manual. Like you can seen in the last month, we do more publicity as before, to try to help by all upcoming questions. The german forum is completely build up in the last weeks and this we want to do in the SHSForums, too. With the BWP v6, we want that our megamod is for all gamers out there and not only a collection of mods anymore. The beginner can trust our selected mods and components, use the BiG World Setup and after the installation, they can play the megamod. The experts can do what they want with alle the informations in our guide and the BiG World Setup. Here you can see, how we install the BG1 NPC Project and the Music Pack at the moment: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9.1. BG1NPC Project v16 ~BG1NPC.TP2~ ~BG1NPCMUSIC/BG1NPCMUSIC.TP2~ This mod expands on the depth of character and levels of interaction with the NPCs from the BG1 game. Every character has banters with other NPCs and with the main character, some have personal tasks, romances with Ajantis, Branwen, Coran, Dynaheir, Shar-Teel and Xan. The files get biffed automatically at the end of the installation. Therefore, an easy deinstallation with WeiDU is not possible. 9.1.1. Copy the folder BG1NPC and the files Setup-BG1NPC.exe and bg1npc.tp2 into your main SoA directory. 9.1.2. Double-click the Setup. The readme opens. and The DOS dialogue appears: Choose your language: 0 [English] Would you like to display the readme? [N]o Would you like to display the components from [The BG1 NPC Project: Banters, Quests and Interjections]? [Y]es Would you like to display the components from [The BG1 NPC Project: Portrait Changes and Additions]? [Y]es Would you like to display the components from [The BG1 NPC Project: Romances]? [Y]es Would you like to display the components from [The BG1 NPC Project: Tweaks]? [Y]es Install Component [The BG1 NPC Project: Required Modifications]? .(I)nstall Install Component [The BG1 NPC Project: Banters, Quests and Interjections]? (I)nstall Install Component [The BG1 NPC Project: Give Edwin his BG2 portrait.]? (I)nstall Install Component [The BG1 NPC Project: Give Imoen her BG2 portrait.]? (I)nstall Install Component [The BG1 NPC Project: Give Jaheira her BG2 portrait.]? (I)nstall Install Component [The BG1 NPC Project: Give Minsc his BG2 portrait.]? (I)nstall Install Component [The BG1 NPC Project: Give Viconia her BG2 portrait.]? (I)nstall Install Component [The BG1 NPC Project: Kivan's "Kivan and Deheriana Companions" portrait]? (I)nstall Install Component [The BG1 NPC Project: Add Non-Joinable NPC portraits to quests and dialogues]? (I)nstall Install Component [The BG1 NPC Project: Ajantis Romance Core (teen content)]?(I)nstall Please choose one of the following: [1] 1 hour real time (standard) minimum between LoveTalks [1] [2] 45 minutes real time minimum between LoveTalks [3] 30 minutes real time minimum between LoveTalks [4] 15 minutes real time minimum between LoveTalks [5] 1 hour 30 minutes (extended) real time minimum between LoveTalks Install Component [The BG1 NPC Project: Branwen‘s Romance Core (teen content)]? (I)nstall Please choose one of the following: [1] 1 hour real time (standard) minimum between LoveTalks [1] [2] 45 minutes real time minimum between LoveTalks [3] 30 minutes real time minimum between LoveTalks [4] 15 minutes real time minimum between LoveTalks [5] 1 hour 30 minutes (extended) real time minimum between LoveTalks Install Component [The BG1 NPC Project: Coran‘s Romance Core (adult content)]? (I)nstall Please choose one of the following: [1] 1 hour real time (standard) minimum between LoveTalks [1] [2] 45 minutes real time minimum between LoveTalks [3] 30 minutes real time minimum between LoveTalks [4] 15 minutes real time minimum between LoveTalks [5] 1 hour 30 minutes (extended) real time minimum between LoveTalks Install Component [The BG1 NPC Project: Dynaheir‘s Romance Core (teen content)]?(I)nstall Please choose one of the following: [1] 1 hour real time (standard) minimum between LoveTalks [1] [2] 45 minutes real time minimum between LoveTalks [3] 30 minutes real time minimum between LoveTalks [4] 15 minutes real time minimum between LoveTalks [5] 1 hour 30 minutes (extended) real time minimum between LoveTalks Install Component [The BG1 NPC Project: Shar-Teel Relationship Core (adult content)]?(I)nstall Please choose one of the following: [1] 1 hour real time (standard) minimum between LoveTalks [1] [2] 45 minutes real time minimum between LoveTalks [3] 30 minutes real time minimum between LoveTalks [4] 15 minutes real time minimum between LoveTalks [5] 1 hour 30 minutes (extended) real time minimum between LoveTalks Install Component [The BG1 NPC Project: Xan‘s Romance Core (teen content)]? (I)nstall Please choose one of the following: [1] 1 hour real time (standard) minimum between LoveTalks [1] [2] 45 minutes real time minimum between LoveTalks [3] 30 minutes real time minimum between LoveTalks [4] 15 minutes real time minimum between LoveTalks [5] 1 hour 30 minutes (extended) real time minimum between LoveTalks Install Component [The BG1 NPC Project: Female Romance Challenges, Ajantis vs Xan vs Coran]? (I)nstall SKIPPING: [The BG1 NPC Project: NPCs can be sent to wait in an inn.] Incompatible with BGT: please use the equivalent component in SwordCoastStrategems for BGT Install Component [The BG1 NPC Project: Alora's Starting Location]? choose one: 1] Alora Starts in the Hall of Wonders. [1] 2] Alora Starts in Gullykin. SKIPPING: [Eldoth Starts in the Cloakwood Forest.] Incompatible with BGT: please use the equivalent component in SwordCoastStrategems for BGT SKIPPING: [Eldoth Starts in the Coast Way.] Incompatible with BGT: please use the equivalent component in SwordCoastStrategems for BGT SKIPPING: [Quayle Starts at the Wyrm's Crossing.] Incompatible with BGT: please use the equivalent component in SwordCoastStrategems for BGT SKIPPING: [Quayle Starts at the Nashkel Carnival.] Incompatible with BGT: please use the equivalent component in SwordCoastStrategems for BGT SKIPPING: [Tiax Starts in Baldur's Gate.] Incompatible with BGT: please use the equivalent component in SwordCoastStrategems for BGT SKIPPING: [Tiax Starts in Beregost.] Incompatible with BGT: please use the equivalent component in SwordCoastStrategems for BGT Install Component [Jason Compton's Accelerated Banter Script.]? (I)nstall This component raises the frequency of the banters. This can result to the fact that the banters may already run out before the game ends. This is sensible if many NPCs are installed within the megamod because, otherwise, up to the playing not all banter are called. SKIPPING: [The BG1 NPC Project: Make Shar-Teel Unkillable until In Party]? This component is only useful for Tutu installs. Install Component [The BG1 NPC Project: Bardic Reputation Adjustment]? (I)nstall Install Component [The BG1 NPC Project: Cloakwood areas availability in Chapter One]? choose one: 1] Open Cloakwood Lodge (first Cloakwood area only) [1] 2] Open four Cloakwood areas (everything but the Mines) Install Component [The BG1 NPC Project: Sarevok's Diary Adjustments]? choose one: 1] SixofSpades Extended Sarevok's Diary [1] UB and BG1 NPC Project both change the diary. The UB diary has corrected dates and limited expansion, and The BG1 NPC Project Extended Sarevok's Diary component expands the diary enormously. Whatever you install last will be what you see in-game. But none of this has any effect on the game, it's just background story. 2] Sarevok's Diary Date Changes only SKIPPING: [The BG1 NPC Project: Check for TutuFix Walking Speeds] This component is only useful for Tutu installs. Install Component [The BG1 NPC Project: Player-Initiated Dialogues]? (I)nstall This component also includes a string fixer. If once wrong dialogs should be played, herewith this can be corrected again. Successfully installed Press ENTER to exit You will get a Lot of Messages like this: "WARNING: I_C_T2: the interjection point (_URLYLE1 29) has multiple exit transitions that have different actions!" This is harmless and expected behavior using WeiDU v192 and higher. The I_C_T2 finds different actions at the end of replies, and lets you know. It is safe to ignore these messages. BG1NPC Music Pack v5 ~BG1NPCMUSIC.TP2~ 9.1.4. Copy the folder BG1NPCMusic and the file Setup-BG1NPCMusic.exe into your main SoA directory. 9.1.5. Double-click the Setup. The DOS dialogue appears: Would you like to display the readme? [N]o Install Component [The BG1 NPC Project Music Pack]? choose one: 1] Install All Audio [1] 2] Install Regular Audio Only 2] Install Romance Audio Only Successfully installed [The BG1 NPC Project Music Pack] Press ENTER to exit Further files get copied, then the readme opens. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We think, for a megamod with 160 selected mods it is the best to install all the possible components of BG1 NPC Project for the gamer, so he can choose in-game, which NPC he would have in his group for romance instead of new installations of the megamod. e.g. If you want to play a good guy or some ours later a bad guy you can do this with the same megamod without installing it anew. With our new tool in v6 you can skip components if you wish, so the option is given. Like cmorgan has seen, we chare informations about the megamod with the modauthors to try to find the best use of their mods in the megamod. If you have comments/questions about the installation or the megamod, please ask. Greetings Leomar Link to comment
Domi Posted June 23, 2008 Author Share Posted June 23, 2008 Okay, so SMM is going to be superceded and phased out. That's good. If it is not going to be taken off the download explicetly and at a defined date, I would like to still ask that BG1NPC is excluded from it. Link to comment
Azazello Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 My, my, such angry words this week, and from two ladies too. I'm impressed. Okay, so SMM is going to be superceded and phased out. That's good. If it is not going to be taken off the download explicetly and at a defined date, I would like to still ask that BG1NPC is excluded from it.Umm, excuse me, where is it written this will be done? I hope not, as I'll be one of the those people who will fight against it very strongly. Domi, your anger is misdirected, in two ways, at least one of which you're going to be embarassed by. People can be forgiven for not taking the time to read about what SMM truly is and its history. Life is short, we can't be on top of everything. Simply, SMM is a semi-automatic installer that allows player to play one version of a mega-install. The GOAL was to allow a beginner to the mega-install concept to begin playing right away, with little or no need for understanding weidu commands, game editors, etc. The goal is very important to keep in the front of your mind, because the SMM design is that the player doesn't get much choice in what's installed because stability is the key to this goal. (In fact, there is a choice of mods and components, but the player has then go adjust SMM to their whim, perhaps endangering stability.) The "one version of a mega-install" that was used as the basis of the installer was considered the most stable mega-install at the time of development. The de facto mega-install, from which all future mega-installs are built upon. In fact, bigmoshi was right -- it was/is the de facto, the pappy of mega-installs (the grandpappy is the "pre-"weidu, BP-centric version of mega-install). Ready to be embarrassed? That install, the one without ANY female-player romances, the one using old versions of mods, was made by... :drum roll: :trumpet fanfare: erebusant !!!!! {linksy} erebusant can be accused of many things, but sexism is not of them! As far as we know... So I think we can cut him some slack that he didn't want a lot of romances in his game, at least in this install version. SMM is a good idea. Although I must admit not using it, from what I've read, it's not that hard to modify and adjust. However, the biggest problems with it is, as Leomar has related, it's not kept current, and there is no one/body to oversee and assist beginners with installer and/or game problems -- that will inevitable occur, no matter how good the installation is designed. (I love all the concepts of mega-install but none -- not even BWP for Beginners -- is going to exist with problems. It's a Holy Grail, to wish for such perfection.) I might try out SMM one day, just to "look under the hood", see how the thing really runs. I will never use BWP -- even though it's based on my method of mega-installing -- but not from lack of love of it. But because I, like erebusant, even cmorgan and other "veterans", we like to have complete, detailed control over our installs. But despite all this, I will promote and support ALL the installer concepts because each provides something different for the different style of player. SMM is the beginner's mega-installer -- if we can find caretakers for it. BWP IS the grand-dame of mega-installers -- gods help us if we ever lose them caretakers! {Nearly finished my sermon, dang-nabbit!} Listen, we have to look at these creations as legacies which we are creating for those who follow us. Just as we are here because of the gifts left for us by those who came before. Ultimately, one day, some new brains are gonna come along and say "OMG, SMM is the best thing since {sliced bread...TV (will they still have that in the future)...sex?? } !!!!!" "Let's use it. No, let's make it better than it ever was! NO, let's make it the best megainstaller EVA!!" BG, This game, is going to be around--forever. For proof, take a look at those forums/sites dedicated to supporting games that were made before some of us players were even born! We have a duty to keep these legacies alive, or at least archived, so that others can have as much fun with them as we're having now. More fun. Remember, we're all doing this for Love, not Hate. Amen. Link to comment
Domi Posted June 23, 2008 Author Share Posted June 23, 2008 I do not find it appropriate that an install helper addressed to the beginners would install an incomplete version of the mod, misrepresenting BG1NPC's content, cutting out the large portions of it, and scaring the folk by the instability into installing half-a-mod. We did not work for years to introduce 6 romances to have them lost that way. Link to comment
jastey Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 I am with Domi here - you said yourself that SMM (which I know nothing about) is meant for beginners, who might take the proposed install for granted, not realizing they are playing a choice someone created for them by his personal taste, not because of stability problems, as you state. It puts players the idea of "only this romance, not the other ones are stable / recommended for a stable install". Look at the other thread to see where it leads to - the player stating he "has" to romance Branwen since Dynaheir romance doesn't get installed. Honestly, I'll bite into my table the first time a female player comes for help saying she is very "sorry not to be able to play any of the romances for a female PC because they are not incorporated into the install". Ack! If SMM takes the role you give it, it should chose mod components with more care, or cleary state that it is based on a personal choice. But then it shouldn't be called the general term "semi-automatic installer for beginners", but "X's running BGT install for you to play it, too". Link to comment
Domi Posted June 23, 2008 Author Share Posted June 23, 2008 Honestly, I'll bite into my table the first time a female player comes for help saying she is very "sorry not to be able to play any of the romances for a female PC because they are not incorporated into the install". Ack! We will be lucky if that doesn't become the "It's too bad BG1NPC has no romances for a female PC. Maybe you guys can write some." Link to comment
jastey Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 As long as it's not "Don't install Coran and Ajantis, there is something with stability, I heard". Link to comment
Azazello Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 I do not find it appropriate that an install helper addressed to the beginners would install an incomplete version of the mod, misrepresenting BG1NPC's content, cutting out the large portions of it, and scaring the folk by the instability into installing half-a-mod. We did not work for years to introduce 6 romances to have them lost that way. Did you read what I wrote? It took a lot of time, I thought you would at least make the effort. I'm not going to repeat myself. If you want SMM to include components that you think are important, put your keyboard where your mouth is: create an install version based on what you think a game should include. There's nothing stopping you or anyone from doing that. In fact, bigmoshi specifically designed it to be customizable. Then post your version wherever you like, and invite players to use it. They will thank you for it. We're waiting. Link to comment
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