BG1NPC and BigMoshi's SMM

[Guest jastey*]

I read your post, but did you read mine? I was trying to explain the feelings I and presumably Domi, too, are having when reading this. I don't think it is impossible to understand the fears of us mod makers.

[Domi]

What Jastey said. Your post is very convincing in showing that this particular form of distribution (SMM) is really unfortunate and creates a misrepresentation and makes false claims about BG1NPC project. At the very least, it is a misnommer. Hence, the request.

[Azazello]

I was advised to make this notice, so let's do it in this separate post:

 

At no point did erebusant advise, encourage or dictate bigmoshi's use of erebusant's weidu.log. bigmoshi was looking for a template upon which to prove his concept of a new installer, and bigmoshi decided himself to use e's log, deeming that e's was the best one around at the time.

 

Even when the proof-of-concept was completed, erebusant neither endorsed or criticized bigmoshi's work.

 

In short, please don't place any blame on erebusant.

[Domi]

Nobody is placing blame. Just please, stop distributing BG1NPC in a partial form to the new players claiming that the rest of it is unstable. That's all.

[Azazello]

What Jastey said. Your post is very convincing in showing that this particular form of distribution (SMM) is really unfortunate and creates a misrepresentation and makes false claims about BG1NPC project. At the very least, it is a misnommer. Hence, the request.

Please, tell us, where does SMM make claims about BG1NPC project? What misrepresentations? I really want to know. If it does, I will take back everything I wrote above.

 

I read your post, but did you read mine? I was trying to explain the feelings I and presumably Domi, too, are having when reading this. I don't think it is impossible to understand the fears of us mod makers.

I re-read this thread twice before my second response, because I wanted to be sure how to respond properly. I re-read once more before replying here. So I'm trying to understand the passions, which I must confess I still believe are based on lack of knowledge.

 

SMM is an installer. That's it. It doesn't make any judgments about any particular mod. It wasn't even designed with the developer's own personal prefences. It uses an existing weidu.log as its build base. With a bit of effort, you can make it use another weidu.log as a base. For example, use these.

 

Its fault is that it doesn't allow upfront customization of mod/component choices. But that is the by-design. The two biggest concerns of most mega-install beginners is that there is too much choice, and the fear of screwing up their games after spending hours setting it up. They want something that "just work" and they want it to be simple. SMM provides one way of resolving that simplicity.

 

I say, let's encourage people to make their own SMM-base and submit it for play. Call them the "SMM fan-edits" or whatever. Make a NPC-focused one, with all options of BG1NPC implemented. Make a base especially for the ladies. Make one focused halflings. I will tell you, beginning players will love you for doing this.

[Azazello]

Nobody is placing blame. Just please, stop distributing BG1NPC in a partial form to the new players claiming that the rest of it is unstable. That's all.

Could you please tell us where this claim is made?

[Domi]

Please, tell us, where does SMM make claims about BG1NPC project? What misrepresentations? I really want to know. If it does, I will take back everything I wrote above.

 

Your answer is right in your post:

 

Its fault is that it doesn't allow upfront customization of mod/component choices. But that is the by-design. The two biggest concerns of most mega-install beginners is that there is too much choice, and the fear of screwing up their games after spending hours setting it up. They want something that "just work" and they want it to be simple. SMM provides one way of resolving that simplicity.

 

SMM is by design marketed to the new folks, that know nothing about modding, intimidated by the choice, and want a simple installer; they are not going to go and study Bg1NPC ReadMe, let alone see what the SMM leaves out. In fact, the continous threat of instability will make them sacrifice the components that they actually want (like the OP). You offer them a great easy way out... except it excludes and important portion of BG1NPC. By doing so not only you make BG1NPC into a weaker project, you strongly suggest that the 4 romances cause instability. Otherwise, in the beginner's POV why would you exclude them? The last time I looked there was no problems with the romances in BG1NPC and they were diligently maintained.

 

And for any player -and particulary for a BEGINNER- I want exactly the opposite - the ability to know what content is there and being able to install it at will. Hence the request to remove BG1NPC from SMM. It's like mirroring it on another site with only partial content. Which I would surely object to as well.

[Guest jastey*]

Otherwise, in the beginner's POV why would you exclude them?

That's exactly what I meant: It's not that SMM states anywhere expicitely that BG1NPC romances are instable, or proclaims its authors to be incapable of anything, nor did I accuse erebusant or who wrote SMM of any of these intentions; but still the above is likely to happen, just because of the the way SMM is introduced e.g. by you as a stable install for beginners, and the human nature that tends to rely on premade tested things if it can spare tedious research, missing a lot of information along the way, giving room for (wrong) conclusions.

Plus, SMM, as a stable install for beginners, detains a lot of content to beginner BGT players, which is not good, imho.

 

You proposed different flagged stable beginner installs; I would say SMM already is one that should be flagged "for male PC", not the general "for beginners" term you were using.

 

I don't try to badtalk SMM (which, still, I know nothing about); it's just that the way you advertised it here, and given the lack of much BG1NPC content, I think beginner players might not be aware the install doesn't provide as much variety as it could, and that stability is not the reason for the components to be left out.

[Azazello]

I don't try to badtalk SMM (which, still, I know nothing about); it's just that the way you advertised it here, and given the lack of much BG1NPC content, I think beginner players might not be aware the install doesn't provide as much variety as it could, and that stability is not the reason for the components to be left out.

That's just it: the beginner does know this because this is what's written in the description of the project.

 

For me, the key to this thread is "still, I know nothing about [sMM]". If we want to discuss this further, perhaps we all can review the developer's work, then come back and discuss more, if you wish.

 

The Standard MegaMod (SMM) Auto-Installation - ReadMe

 

SMM Auto-DL / Auto-Installer (GUI) / Manual Install / WalkThru

[Domi]

Just read at the ReadMe:

 

Objective:

This is meant for people who are not willing to risk 2 days of their lives

installing modifications but coming to naught.

 

Unless you really have time to

waste, don't try anything funny by straying from this standard installation

sequence.

 

Why not more mods? I think Erebusant's approach was good. 63 mods

(including 6 mega) is already a lot of mods already to guarantee a good playing

experience for newbies. Not to mention that too many mods installed may

significantly slow down the game-play (obviously because more memory/parameters

are loaded). Seriously, if you are looking for a good debugging experience or

modding experience, this guide really isn't meant for you.

 

Motivation:

As many BG mods are created freely by the modding community, it so happens that

the lack of standardized modding codes inevitable leads to cross-modding. As

modding is in a state of flux, bugs are often reported by players with different

mods installed, hence it becomes difficult for the modders to keep track of bug

reports. As such, it is hoped that such a standard fuss-free installation for

dummies will help most mod-newbies just looking for a good time. In addition, by

creating a consistent playable platform using Weidu installations, it would be

easier for bug reporting and patch-work to be made.

 

Caution:

Doesn't contain more than necessary information to help you install the mods and

enjoy the game. If you love reading, and enjoy getting confused with

installation procedures rather than playing the game, try to look elsewhere. The

guide is only applicable for English versions & ensure you download the exact

versions of the mods for a smoother installation process.

 

I am sorry, but if this is not a pitch for a newbie to install a bug-free, trouble-free experience in that particular configuration, and ONLY THAT PARTICULAR configuration, I don't know what is.

 

NOWHERE in the ReadME it states that this installer takes out large parts of the mod.

 

The only hint that 25% of content is missing is one word 'partial' on BG1NPC, waaay below where it is nigh unnoticeable. In fact it states that it installs 63 mods. It does not specify that those mods are NOT in a complete state.

 

It also makes a HUGE emphasis on how unstable any other version will be. Look, it does not leave any room for interpretaion, your ReadMe. It says - we give you the best, trouble-free coolest experience of 63 COMPLETE mods! Go for it! Unless the debugging is your thing.

 

If there is a CAUTION: You will be missing out on a huge amount of content!

 

warning I haven't seen it.