Compatibility

[Miloch]

Your readme mentions you started this from the ADPack. Is this a sort of patching recoding of that then? If so, that'd be great, since it overwrites a bunch of vanilla spells.

 

Other comments:

- Disintegrate: inflicts 100 points of magic damage (save vs. spell negates)

Why this instead of just disintegrating the target?

- Imprisonment: applies a permanent maze effect (it no longer breaks romances and it no longer causes game over if the affected character is Player 1)

So how is this different from the tb#tweaks version?

 

Have you messed with Petrification (Flesh to Stone, etc.) at all?

 

I'm asking because I guess I should know there need to be any more allowances for modded spells in p5tweaks (sigh... I thought I had covered all spell mods too...).

[Demivrgvs]

Your readme mentions you started this from the ADPack. Is this a sort of patching recoding of that then? If so, that'd be great, since it overwrites a bunch of vanilla spells.

Actually SR too overwrites vanilla's spells. I prefer this solution becase I want to be sure that each spell perfectly matches the provided description (I don't want any mod to interfere with SR's spells). Optional components in future releases (like the saving throws system) will be made via patching, but I'm quite sure spells will still overwrites old ones.

 

- Disintegrate: inflicts 100 points of magic damage (save vs. spell negates)

Why this instead of just disintegrating the target?

A few things lead me to that change:

- the original disintegrate effect destroys the loot and some players don't turn the gore off to prevent it

- disintegrate can now be used more freely

- it can now be used for killing Mordankainen's Swords (as per PnP)

 

- Imprisonment: applies a permanent maze effect (it no longer breaks romances and it no longer causes game over if the affected character is Player 1)

So how is this different from the tb#tweaks version?

It differs only in how the maze effect is used. tb#tweaks raises target's INT to 25 and set Maze to last an eternity for creatures with INT 25. I've done the opposite. SR's Maze last an eternity against creature with INT 2 and SR's Imprisonment exploits it.

 

Have you messed with Petrification (Flesh to Stone, etc.) at all?

Not at all. I'll deal with it sooner or later.

[Demivrgvs]

I'm asking because I guess I should know there need to be any more allowances for modded spells in p5tweaks (sigh... I thought I had covered all spell mods too...).

Ok, I knew about that mod but haven't heard of it for some time. I though it was bugged and I feared the scripts used in it may slow down the game, but if I'm wrong than I'm willing to make them compatibile.

In that case it may even be better to "include" those components in SR to allow an easier installation (I generally prefer to have few big mods installed), but that's up to you, or the mod's authors. Obviously I would credit the original authors! I'm not here to take credits anyway, I just mod because it's fun and because I hope players may enjoy my mods too, and if you're willing to code it yourself it would be great.

[Miloch]

Actually SR too overwrites vanilla's spells. I prefer this solution becase I want to be sure that each spell perfectly matches the provided description (I don't want any mod to interfere with SR's spells).

Yes, I noticed that. Unfortunately, I think these are all standard, scriptable spell resources. I was hoping this was an improvement on ADPack in that respect, at least .

 

I won't get into another sermon about the virtues of patching vs. attempting to preserve content with overwriting . But can you explain how this compares to ADPack then? Obviously, you wouldn't use both mods at once (one would just overwrite the other anyway). Does SR include all the content of ADPack and more, or does it do different things entirely?

the original disintegrate effect destroys the loot and some players don't turn the gore off to prevent it

P5Tweaks fixes this.

I'm asking because I guess I should know there need to be any more allowances for modded spells in p5tweaks (sigh... I thought I had covered all spell mods too...).

Ok, I knew about that mod but haven't heard of it for some time. I though it was bugged and I feared the scripts used in it may slow down the game, but if I'm wrong than I'm willing to make them compatibile.

It had some bugs but (I think) I fixed them. The only thing it does with scripts is the "Frozen Death" component that adds a single script block (maybe 7 lines?) to creatures who should drop items when frozen. That certainly should not slow anything down compared with SCS and the like adding 1000s (maybe 10000s) of lines of scripting to creatures.

In that case it may even be better to "include" those components in SR to allow an easier installation (I generally prefer to have few big mods installed), but that's up to you, or the mod's authors.

I have made P5Tweaks compatible with your mod if P5Tweaks is installed after it. (If you enabled the reverse, that'd be great, but I don't see how you could do that unless you patch instead of overwrite.) I'm not the author, and no one's heard from him for months. While I feel ok bugfixing the mod, I can't exactly grant its inclusion in another mod (although pro5 did grant permission to include it in a larger tweak mod). I'm not sure including it in SR would work from a functional perspective. Your components should probably be installed before most other mods (since they overwrite) whereas P5Tweaks should be installed after all mods that add items and spells (since it patches them if relevant).

 

I have at least plugged your mod with a link in the readme . I wasn't even aware SR was released until I stumbled across it here.

[Demivrgvs]

But can you explain how this compares to ADPack then? Obviously, you wouldn't use both mods at once (one would just overwrite the other anyway). Does SR include all the content of ADPack and more, or does it do different things entirely?

Well, I've incredibly expanded it and now every single spell has been fixed or tweaked somewhat. It does "include" all the content of ADPack and more, but it also does different things.

The improvements are too numerous to be mentioned in one post imo (even the ones mentioned in the two respective topics in this forum contain them all) but a few noticeable examples may be:

- Summoning Spells: I've redone and improved every summoned creature, and each spell now provides a complete description of the summoned creatures and their abilities

- Illusionary Clones: SR blocks the well known exploits of Project Image and Simulacrum

- Imprisonment: well, you know what I've done here

I'm not sure including it in SR would work from a functional perspective. Your components should probably be installed before most other mods (since they overwrite) whereas P5Tweaks should be installed after all mods that add items and spells (since it patches them if relevant).

The only mods that have to be installed after SR are AI enhancing mods like SCS and Rogue Rebalancing, and only because I've removed Detectable Spells component from SR at the moment (cause I had the old one whereas DavidW and aVenger were "creating"/improving it a lot). All spells are handled by SR therefore there's no particular need for it to be installed before or after most mods. Obviously if you want a mod to affect SR's spells you'll have to install it after SR, thus P5Tweaks has to be installed later, but it should do the same even if I make SR patching instead of overwriting.

I have at least plugged your mod with a link in the readme . I wasn't even aware SR was released until I stumbled across it here.

Well, the official release has been delayed because of the server problems G3 has been facing recently. I hope that sooner or relater everything will be ok and SR may be properly released (especially because I've another mod on hold too! ).

[Miloch]

Obviously if you want a mod to affect SR's spells you'll have to install it after SR, thus P5Tweaks has to be installed later, but it should do the same even if I make SR patching instead of overwriting.

Actually, if you patched, the install order could happen either way. The only specific change I made for SR compatibility is to allow "imprisonment drops" for your mazed version, the same way p5tweaks had for tb#tweaks. That would stay true if p5tweaks was installed first for the vanilla spell and a mod came in later and changed the imprisonment opcode to maze or something else. But being as how p5 should be installed late anyway, I guess the point is rather moot.

Well, the official release has been delayed because of the server problems G3 has been facing recently. I hope that sooner or relater everything will be ok and SR may be properly released (especially because I've another mod on hold too! ).

Yeah. *cough* *hostitsomewhereelse* *cough* (I love G3 but this is getting absurd... took me several minutes just to load this page.)

[Guest temujin.]

a newbie question.

 

if some mod comes along after SR is installed, and modifies/overwrites spell.ids, stats.ids or state.ids, will it break SR?

[Demivrgvs]

if some mod comes along after SR is installed, and modifies/overwrites spell.ids, stats.ids or state.ids, will it break SR?

Overwriting such files is something I would never do, anyway I'm not aware of any incompatibility with SR unless the changes are clearly broken. In that case there might be issues with AI enhancing mods (and SR's Improved Summons AI), but the only mod I know that does this sort of sub-optimal changes is Kelsey and I seem to recall DavidW's work on Detectable Spells handles it now.

[Icendoan]

If it patches, probably not. Unless it patches descriptions, you may get undocumented effects. If it overwrites, yes.

 

Icen

[Miloch]

Also, since this mod just uses standard spell resources (instead of new ones), a mod would have to do something really boneheaded (like delete those entries from spell.ids) to mess with that. In which case, you're going to have a lot of other problems than just incompatibility with this mod. And in any case, you want to install mods that overwrite IDS files pretty early in the install order, before even this mod and the Fixpack.