NPC Attributes

[Icendoan]

Yeah, cause you are always helping Newbs and have a million different projects?

 

Right?

 

Icen

[Miloch]

Yeah, cause you are always helping Newbs and have a million different projects?

 

Right?

No, it's because I'm a freakin' half-orc with a serious DEX penalty .

[Icendoan]

Oooh....

 

Would a Ring Of Clumsiness improve your score it's that bad?

 

Icen

[Miloch]

Would a Ring Of Clumsiness improve your score it's that bad?

Well, even 50% of zero is still zero, though I guess if negative stats were possible...

 

Funny thing though, half-orcs don't get Dex or Int penalties in 2e rules, and yet their max for both is 17. Wacky math or what?

[Guest Guest_Ergopad_*]

I need to reinstall BGtutu, I think I've messed that up, and that causes the translation error.

 

It's nice to hear, that Level 1 NPCs are working. I think my mod go nicely, if integrated to to that... Especially if my components are installed before the kits and changes like that...

[Icendoan]

Would a Ring Of Clumsiness improve your score it's that bad?

Well, even 50% of zero is still zero, though I guess if negative stats were possible...

 

Funny thing though, half-orcs don't get Dex or Int penalties in 2e rules, and yet their max for both is 17. Wacky math or what?

 

I meant the BG ring, which sets it to 3 iirc.

 

Icen

[Miloch]

I need to reinstall BGtutu, I think I've messed that up, and that causes the translation error.

If you have an English game (but I'm thinking you don't) try EasyTutu instead. Otherwise, it might be some mod you installed before the Tutu conversion causing that bug, so you'd have to figure out which one. If it's on the Tutu mod list (link in my signature) it should be safe - not sure about any other mods.

[Ergopad]

I have english version, and EasyTutu, though I'm finnish.

 

Does this look like correct implemention:

		COPY_EXISTING ~%tsu%imoen1.cre~ ~override~
								~%tsu%imoen2.cre~ ~override~
								~%tsu%imoen4.cre~ ~override~
								~%tsu%imoen6.cre~ ~override~
	PATCH_IF (SOURCE_SIZE > 0x2d3) THEN BEGIN // protects against invalid files
	  // Delete all existing weapon proficiencies
	  SET opcode_to_delete = 233
	  LAUNCH_PATCH_MACRO DELETE_CRE_EFFECT
	  SET_BG2_PROFICIENCY ~PROFICIENCY2WEAPON~ 1
	  SET_BG2_PROFICIENCY ~PROFICIENCYSHORTSWORD~ 1
	  PATCH_IF (SOURCE_FILE = ~%tsu%imoen4.cre~) OR
	   				 (SOURCE_FILE = ~%tsu%imoen6.cre~) THEN BEGIN
		  SET_BG2_PROFICIENCY ~PROFICIENCYDAGGER~ 1
	  END
  END
	BUT_ONLY_IF_IT_CHANGES

 

I plan to add 4 style options (and 1 styless option for thieves) and try keep as close as possible to the original. But I'm going to leave some NPCs untouched, like Edwin and Dynaheir who can't have styles. I actually have more options, than in original BG1, for weapons. And I of course use BG2 proficiencies, if available (Imoen, Viconia...).

 

For example, Ajantis:

 

* Large Swords

- 2-H Sword

- Bastard Sword

- Longsword

- Scimitar/wakisashi/ninja-to

- Katana

 

* Blunt Weapons

- Warhammer

- Mace

- Flail/Morning Star

- Club

- Quarterstaff

* Bows

- Short Bow

- Long Bow

* Small Swords

- Short Sword

- Dagger

 

So, this give lot of options. Though it's not always good, but I try to make a theme for each NPC. Like oriental weapos for Coran, instead of Bastard Sword, Longsword and 2-H Sword. All help and ideas are very much welcome.

 

Here's what I've done so far. How does this sound like?

 

Install Component [Ajantis weapon proficiency]?

[N]o, [Q]uit or choose one:

1] Two handed weapon style (2-H Sword & Long Bow)

2] Sword and shield style (Mace & Long Sword)

3] Single weapon style (Bastard Sword & Warhammer)

4] Two weapon style (Bastard Sword & Short Sword)

n

Already Asked About [Ajantis weapon proficiency]

Already Asked About [Ajantis weapon proficiency]

Already Asked About [Ajantis weapon proficiency]

 

Install Component [Alora weapon proficiency]?

[N]o, [Q]uit or choose one:

1] Two handed weapon style (Quarterstaff & Short Bow)

2] Sword and shield style (Short Sword & Sling)

3] Single weapon style (Short Sword & Crossbow)

4] Two weapon style (Short Sword & Dagger)

5] Styless (Short Sword, short Bow & Dagger)

n

Already Asked About [Alora weapon proficiency]

Already Asked About [Alora weapon proficiency]

Already Asked About [Alora weapon proficiency]

Already Asked About [Alora weapon proficiency]

 

Install Component [Coran weapon proficiency]?

[N]o, [Q]uit or choose one:

1] Two handed weapon style (Spear & long Bow)

2] Sword and shield style (Katana & long Bow)

3] Single weapon style (Katana & long Bow)

4] Two weapon style (Scimitar & long Bow)

n

Already Asked About [Coran weapon proficiency]

Already Asked About [Coran weapon proficiency]

Already Asked About [Coran weapon proficiency]

 

Install Component [imoen weapon proficiency]?

[N]o, [Q]uit or choose one:

1] Two handed weapon style (Quarterstaff + short Bow)

2] Sword and shield style (Club + short Bow)

3] Single weapon style (short Sword + short Bow)

4] Two weapon style (short Sword + Dagger)

5] Styless (short Bow & Dagger + Quarterstaff)

[Miloch]

The syntax looks correct, but I don't know if you want to make it complicated with multiple options, since Level 1 NPCs already does that. Indeed, the main reason for Level 1 NPCs is to assign proficiencies however you choose. I was just thinking a "sensible/restored proficiencies" component would be welcomed, so that Kivan for example doesn't have a halberd proficiency when he really has a spear in BG1 (and gets one through BG1NPC also). Though in Tutu, he gets the two weapon proficiency automatically, so I guess I could see an option for that too... maybe long swords as the traditional elf weapon.

 

In BG1, Imoen comes with a short bow and a bunch of arrows, so it's pretty certain she should have a short bow proficiency unless you're going to remove all that gear. The only real question is whether her "small sword" should be short sword or dagger for the first point. Since you get a dagger +1 right away, I'd be inclined to give her that, but of course it could go the other way. Just don't feel you need to go overboard with multiple options, since you'll also need to make sure they have the right starting weapons, and L1NPCs already does these things. It doesn't, however, give a simple component to assign everyone sensible proficiencies or restore proficiencies (without answering a bunch of questions and knowing those answers beforehand) to something more like what they were in BG1 (using BG2 proficiencies of course). Also, her thief skills are probably a mess in Tutu, which has slightly different values from BG1.

 

Incidentally, I already have Quayle and Tiax components with multiple choices for each, so I can try to dig that up. It's kind of dusty.

[Miloch]

Incidentally, I already have Quayle and Tiax components with multiple choices for each, so I can try to dig that up. It's kind of dusty.

I started a new post with this, since it was somewhat more content than I realised. The first two components are pretty much exactly what you described though for other NPCs. It uses its own macros rather than the newer WeiDU ones, but also it's more precise since it just changes incorrect proficiencies rather than wiping them all out and rebuilding them.

[Guest Guest_Ergopad_*]

In some cases, the questions could be left out, like with NPCs in BG2 from BG1 (Viconia, Jaheira,...), but in most of the cases we definately need options, like Khalid for example.

 

How does Level 1 NPC actually work, you can rebuild the character when he/she joins your party, like importing BG1 char to BG2? And does he gains same about experience as protagonist has? And is there option to set the kit for NPCs too? If Level 1 NPC works good, then I could abandon whole proficiency thing.

 

I could try to fix the thief skills, but would be a huge project. And again, doesn't Level 1 NPC fix that too?

 

I personally like "wiping all out and re-create" better, and more precise, than just removing and adding.

 

Maybe I should stop modding for a while, and start that first tutu game for real.

 

PS. I changed Quayle stats AGAIN, now he only gains 13 WIS, but 11 STR, so he can wield most of the maces.

[Miloch]

How does Level 1 NPC actually work, you can rebuild the character when he/she joins your party, like importing BG1 char to BG2?

Yes.

And does he gains same about experience as protagonist has?

Yes (if you install that component).

And is there option to set the kit for NPCs too?

Yes (more info).

If Level 1 NPC works good, then I could abandon whole proficiency thing.

Maybe. Like I said, you need to know exactly what values you want to set every stat to though, so having some preselected ones that make sense is a plus.

I could try to fix the thief skills, but would be a huge project. And again, doesn't Level 1 NPC fix that too?

Well, no, not really. Not that I know of anyway. What it does is allow you to set thief skills if you kit (or rekit) someone as a thief. It doesn't have a "restore/fix skills to what they should be" type of component. See the Tiax code in BG1 NPC for an example of that - his skills were pretty wacky before.

I personally like "wiping all out and re-create" better, and more precise, than just removing and adding.

There are arguments for either method. Wiping out innates isn't always good, as you've mentioned, unless you know what they were or should be, based on kit, etc.

Maybe I should stop modding for a while, and start that first tutu game for real.

Heh. I haven't really played a game since I started modding, because I kept finding things about the game that bugged me...

PS. I changed Quayle stats AGAIN, now he only gains 13 WIS, but 11 STR, so he can wield most of the maces.

Might work. I have an option that gives him a minor STR boost and also lowers the STR requirement for the weapons in the minimod I linked above. So many options...

[Guest Guest_Ergopad_*]

More questions about Level 1 NPC.

 

Can you switch base class, arbarian, Monk or Sorcerer, to your NPC?

 

Do you have to set manually attributes (str,dex,con...) and thief skills (except bard) for every npc as they join?

 

I don't like the idea about changing the strength requirements for weapons, because someone can't wield them with low strength. It would be ridiculous seeing a small gnome wielding a huge warhammer in his hand... Though if the str req. differ from ad&d rules, it's ok.

[Miloch]

Can you switch base class, arbarian, Monk or Sorcerer, to your NPC?

Yes. Why not just test install it and see what it does?

Do you have to set manually attributes (str,dex,con...) and thief skills (except bard) for every npc as they join?

Thief skills, yes. You can't change attributes with the current version and it's unknown if/when that'll be available.

I don't like the idea about changing the strength requirements for weapons, because someone can't wield them with low strength. It would be ridiculous seeing a small gnome wielding a huge warhammer in his hand... Though if the str req. differ from ad&d rules, it's ok.

Actually, I can find no reference for weapon STR requirements in either the 2nd ed. PHB or the Arms & Equipment Guide. Possibly they were conceived of for BG1 but not actually implemented for BG2. Some don't make much sense - for example, a mace is not a weapon that requires much strength, not significantly more than a club anyhow. So I've just applied minor tweaks if you choose those options rather than doing something far-reaching like Ashes of Embers (which is a bit too much of a cheat IMO). As for gnomes and halflings not being able to wield 6' long weapons etc., that's a separate issue that has more to do with size than strength, and has been discussed recently with respect to the Item Revisions and Fields of the Dead mods, though someone should probably do a tweak for it that doesn't change loads of other things too.

[Guest Guest_Ergopad_*]

I tried Level 1 NPCs, it felt like pretty good mod. Though there was some bugs, like wrong weapon proficiencies available (Minsc beastmaster atleast) and too much thieving skill points (montaron assassin).

 

Is there any progress going on with that mod still? It would be nice, if it wouldn't have that many options...

 

I'm pretty much done with my NPC Stats mod and I got ready the weapon proficiency mod but I'm not using it right now.

 

I could upload my mod, if someone is interested to integrated to someone.