HLAs

[Demivrgvs]

* It is moved down one level and takes the place of Heal which is just more or less a duplicate of it

I can't do it, and I wouldn't anyway. It would remove a legitimate and well implemented level 6 spell (Heal), and it will also cause issues with SCS's AI which will continue to search the original spell within the 7th level slots.

 

This is how Elemental Princes are at the moment in my internal build...

 

Chan, Prince of Air (20 Hit Dice):

STR 19, DEX 24, CON 18, INT 17, WIS 16, CHA 18; AL Neutral

HP 180, AC -8, THAC0 -3, Saving Throws 3/5/4/4/6

4 Attacks Per Round, 1d12+11 piercing damage (Fist +4)

 

Special Qualities:

Blade Barrier: 1d6 damage/sec within 5' feet (save vs. breath negates)

Immune to weapons lower than +2 enchantment

Immune to hold, poison, sleep & stun effects

Electrical Resistance 100%; Magic Resistance 60%

Slashing, Crushing & Piercing Resistance 40%; Missile Resistance 80%

Sunnis, Princess of Earth (20 Hit Dice):

STR 24, DEX 12, CON 23, INT 17, WIS 16, CHA 18; AL Neutral

HP 230, AC -5, THAC0 -6, Saving Throws 3/5/4/4/6

3 Attacks Per Round, 2d12+16 crushing damage (Fist +4)

 

Special Qualities:

Stoneskin: 5 skins

Immune to weapons lower than +2 enchantment

Immune to hold, petrification, poison, sleep & stun effects

Magic Resistance 60%

Slashing, Piercing Resistance & Missile Resistance 60%; Crushing Resistance 20%

Zaaman Rul, Prince of Fire (20 Hit Dice):

STR 19, DEX 21, CON 19, INT 17, WIS 16, CHA 18; AL Neutral

HP 200, AC -7, THAC0 -3, Saving Throws 3/5/4/4/6

3 Attacks Per Round, 2d10+11 slashing +2d10 fire damage (Fist +4)

 

Special Qualities:

Fire Shield: 2d10 points of fire damage to whoever strikes the prince within 5' feet

Immune to weapons lower than +2 enchantment

Immune to hold, poison, sleep & stun effects

Fire Resistance 125%; Magic Resistance 60%

Slashing, Crushing, Piercing Resistance & Missile Resistance 40%

 

Both vanilla and Refinements Princes have a dispel on hit effect (though obviously vanilla's one is somewhat broken ), should I remove it in favor of something else more appropriate to the respective elemental planes?

[Salk]

I understand the problem with my suggestion above.

 

Please disregard it entirely then.

 

The problem remains though. Greater Restoration tweaked to accomodate SCS clashes with Heal at the current stage. We must think of something that would make Greater Restoration more useful and powerful so that it can justify being one level higher. Perhaps a temporary Hit Points increase might do the trick.

 

About the Princes: yes, I do believe that it would be better to change the dispel on hit effect with something more proper to their respective elemental planes.

 

For Sunnis, I would propose a small chance (1%) of turning the enemy to stone for each hit.

 

For Chan, I would propose a small chance (1%) of a Wing Buffet effect for each hit.

 

For Zaaman Rul, I would propose a small chance (1%) of melting the armor or shield (if there is any) of the target for each hit.

 

Do you like them?

[Icendoan]

How would you melt the armour/shield? Reduce AC?

 

Or apply an effect that would lower AC and cause a Splash effect for fire damage, so the hit character would take something like d4 fire damage on hit while the armour is melted.

 

Icen

[Salk]

Icendoan,

 

A simple AC penalty was not what I had in mind actually. I was suggestion the destruction of the item itself. Hopefully a visual effect would hint to the fact that the armor/shield has melted away.

[Demivrgvs]

Petrification and "Wing Buffet" seem ok to me, I don't particulary like the "melt armors" effect (and it would be quite problematic too imo). I prefer to stick more closer to existing spells/abilities like giving Chan the ability to cast Gust of Wind, perhaps Zaaman casting Flame Strikes and so on...

 

aVENGER, if you read this have you any information on the PnP Elemental Princes and their abilities? I'd like to know for example if the dispelling effect is an original one or only something added by BG and left unchanged by Refinements.

[Salk]

I understand your will of sticking to existing abilities but I believe I have come with refreshing ideas that also have a strong connection to the elemental plane.

 

Sometimes I realize that what I suggest is impratical/unsuitable but I believe in the ideas above and I am happy to know that you think that at least two are okay. Too bad for the melting effect because it would have been a nice touch of originality and creativity. Guess the world is not ready for it...

[aVENGER_(RR)]

aVENGER, if you read this have you any information on the PnP Elemental Princes and their abilities? I'd like to know for example if the dispelling effect is an original one or only something added by BG and left unchanged by Refinements.

 

As a matter of fact, I have the complete 2E AD&D stats for both the good and the evil Archomentals (elemental princes) along with their special abilities. I could post it here if you'd like, but the material is very extensive (i.e. it would take up multiple pages of text) and I'd have to type it in manually since I only have a printed copy of that book.

 

BTW, in case anyone's interested, these stats come from the Planescape Monstrous Compendium Appendix III.

[Icendoan]

You could always scan and upload...

 

Icen

[Demivrgvs]

BTW, in case anyone's interested, these stats come from the Planescape Monstrous Compendium Appendix III.

Thanks aVENGER! I got my hands on it! It seems Refinements do portray them quite well, though there are some noticeable differences too (Sunnis shouldn't be able to cast Earthquake, Chan doesn't have a permanent Blade Barrier but it's permanently invisible like an Aerial Servant, ...). Anyway, I'm not going to simply make them as per PnP because for example some of their abilities would be just too powerful imo (like the ability to summon many allies), but all this PnP material surely helps!

 

I've also started to work on Devas and Planetars and I've a few things to say on the matter:

 

- Refinements ones are incompatible with SCS (because all spells are replaced with custom innates that SCS's AI doesn't recognize)

 

- which level should I make them? In PnP they are of 12th and 14th level respectively, but in BG this would mean making them quite weak, especially the Planetars. My suggestion is to make them 14th and 18th level respectively, or something slightly better.

 

- differently from vanilla I do think I won't make Planetars more powerful than Pit Fiends (which SR greatly boosts) for quite a few good reasons. In 2nd edition Pit Fiends/Baalors are as powerful as Planetars, and in 3rd edition Planetars are not even a match for them (only Solars are slightly more powerful). Most importantly, in BG Planetars are trusty allies and fully controllable, while Pit Fiends can turn against you and aren't controllable at all. Thus having summoned Fiends more powerful than any other creature summoned by a spell of the same level seems a good way to keep them a worth alternative.

 

- that being said, shouldn't Priest 7th level spell Gate be replaced by the equivalent 7th level Cacofiend spell? It's much more balanced imo (priests summon Devas instead of Planetars for the very same reason), and even more appropriate if you keep in mind that SR have this spell cast Death Knights. What do you think?

 

 

P.S Salk, you wouldn't believe what I've found out about PnP's Zaaman Rul: "weapons of enchantment lower than +2 simply melt when they strike his red-hot hide". But don't think to ask me coding such a thing!

[Salk]

P.S Salk, you wouldn't believe what I've found out about PnP's Zaaman Rul: "weapons of enchantment lower than +2 simply melt when they strike his red-hot hide". But don't think to ask me coding such a thing!

 

 

You see what elemental emphaty I have with this subject?

 

I suggested something that is close to a P&P source without even knowing it!

 

About Refinements: I like it and it would be a shame to have any incompatibilities with SCS. SR should also incorporate Refinements' changes (after all, Refinements hasn't been properly updated for years) and tweak them to accomodate your tastes and SCS' AI as well.

[Icendoan]

And then patch them in

 

We are never going to let this drop

 

Icen

[Bursk]

Now that you're doing HLAs (and with the possibility of other HLAs to come, no?), please avoid having repeating effects for always-on HLAs. Refinements does this for a number of HLAs, and I ended up modifying the files so that the effects went away. I found that I didn't need some flashy thing to remind me every five seconds that I'd chosen a HLA.

[Demivrgvs]

About Refinements: I like it and it would be a shame to have any incompatibilities with SCS. SR should also incorporate Refinements' changes (after all, Refinements hasn't been properly updated for years) and tweak them to accomodate your tastes and SCS' AI as well.

If I'll ever have the time, and if pre-existing spells won't need changes anymore I'm probably going to do something like apply SR "approach" to all Refinements HLAs.

 

And then patch them in

 

We are never going to let this drop

Want to do it yourself? Seriously, I'm not sure I'll ever have the time, and I don't think players would prefer to wait years because of it. If there's a super-hero coder out there who wish to do this he's welcome.

 

For example Item Revisions would have been out there many months ago if it wasn't for some patching things that are taken quite long to be perfectly implemented.

 

Now that you're doing HLAs (and with the possibility of other HLAs to come, no?), please avoid having repeating effects for always-on HLAs. Refinements does this for a number of HLAs, and I ended up modifying the files so that the effects went away. I found that I didn't need some flashy thing to remind me every five seconds that I'd chosen a HLA.

Are you referring to Holy Aura and Union visual effects? I disable them too.

[Icendoan]

Nah, I have my own things to do.

 

Icen

[Demivrgvs]

Ok, the following is how an Astral Deva looks at the moment in my interbal SR v2. Characteristics, combat abilities and spell-like abilities are pratically identical to PnP except few things I've done to make them more interesting/challenging:

- PnP Deva's spells are innates, instead I've made Devas cast spell as if it was an effective cleric of 14th level. Anyway, just like SCS's Celestials they'll cast spells instantly and without chance of being interrupted.

- to reflect the fact that I've made Devas effective clerics I've added a few spells to them which aren't granted in PnP (these added spells are marked in red)

 

Deva (14 Hit Dice):

STR 19, DEX 18, CON 18, INT 18, WIS 18, CHA 20; AL Chaotic Good

HP 162, AC -5, THAC0 0, Saving Throws 3/5/4/4/6

2 Attacks Per Round, 1d10+10 crushing damage (Heavy Mace +3)

Combat Abilities:

Disruption: undead creatures must save vs. death or be destroyed

Stun: 50% chance target must save vs. spell or be stunned for 2 rounds

 

Special Qualities:

Immune to weapons lower than +2 enchantment

Immune to level drain, death, imprisonment, maze, petrification & poison effects

Acid & Electrical Resistance 100%; Fire and Cold Resistance 50%; Magic Resistance 70%

Slashing, Crushing, Piercing Resistance & Missile Resistance 10%

 

Known Spells:

1° Bless (x3), Resist Fear (x3)

2° Aid (x3), Find Trap, Know Alignment, Draw Upon Holy Might

3° Cure Disease (x2), Holy Smite (x2), Remove Curse (x2)

4° Cure Critical Wounds (x2), Neutralize Poison (x2), Protection from Evil 10' radius

5° Mass Cure, Raise Dead, True Seeing

6° Blade Barrier, Heal

7° Holy Word

 

They now use Blade Barrier instead of Globe of Blades (as per PnP), and this would be the only issue with SCS's AI. Devas should actually cast many more low-mid level spells, but having 7 Cure Light Wounds and more than two Cure Disease/Remove Curse would be pointless imo and would probably lead SCS's script to change Deva character level to something like 25 or 30.

 

 

Fallen Deva (which I don't think exists in PnP) has same stats and spells but I do think some of its spells should be replaced by more appropriate ones. I'd like to hear your suggestions, mine are:

- Doom instead of Bless

- Unholy Smite instead of Holy Smite

- Cloak of Fear instead of Protection from Evil 10' radius

- Unholy Word instead of Holy Word

 

We may also opt for a more radical change, though more difficult to balance it could be more interesting. Something along the line of:

- Hold Person instead of Aid

- Contagion instead of Cure Disease

- Poison instead of Neutralize Poison

- Cause Critical Wounds instead of Cure Critical Wounds

- Greater Command instead of Mass Cure

- Slay Living instead of Raise Dead

- Harm instead of Heal

 

Ok, now I'd like to know what do you think about my current proposed changes and as always I'm open to any suggestion too.