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Ping Miloch - Which mods patch and which ones overwrite


Guest John

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Miloch,

 

In another thread in this forum, you suggested that it would probably be better to install mods on the basis of whether it installs by overwriting files or by patching files and mentioned two (Ascension and Tactics) as examples of overwriting, the suggestion being to install mods that overwrite files first.

 

Could you explain a bit more:

1. Is there a list of which mods overwrite files?

 

2. How does patching differ from overwrite - I mean I assume that overwriting would be "destructive" in that it replaces the content but not sure how the patching approach affects the game or perhaps you mean how it affects other mods because from the viewpoint of a user such as myself all I see is the end result.

 

I ask because I probably install mods of both types based on various suggested install sequence lists and feel pretty comfortable with that order now but see that perhaps it's time to change the install sequence for whenever I start my next new game.

 

Thanks,

 

John

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Most older mods overwrite things.

 

Overwriting is destructive, while patching is constructive.Say I had a longsword, added by a mod that changed Xan's Moonblade by overwriting it. No matter what I had installed before that changed it, it will still ONLY have the changes of the overwriting mod.

 

If it patched, it would have both the changes from the older mod and the newer mod.

 

I think he said he was away for the next day or two.

 

Icen

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Oh no! Miloch please spare me this time! :fish:

 

Patching is better than overwriting.

 

Patching makes the changes in a conservative way, preserving previous changes when needed. It also allows to more easily interact with other mods.

 

Overwriting applyies the changes by imposing them, it doesn't matter what you have installed before, you just get what the overwriting mod wants you to have.

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Heh. Well it sounds like everyone else answered the second question.

 

As for the first, there is no definitive list I know of but as Icen said, most of the older mods do (but some actually patch). If all the mod does is add new files, it doesn't matter much what it does, as there is nothing pre-existing to overwrite. It is for mods that overwrite existing game files where there are potential issues.

 

Apart from the two mods mentioned already, some others which overwrite are:

- SP Item Pack (not the SP Collection here, which patches)

- LotR Item Pack

- SpellPackB4 or earlier (not B5 or later, which should patch)

- Arcane/Divine Pack

- One Pixel Productions - actually someone would have to do a pretty thorough code review of this to see what patches and what doesn't. The flaming sword component, for example, patches in a rather sophisticated manner; on the other hand, the flaming short sword and quarterstaff components currently overwrite existing files.

 

There are probably more, especially some of the more obscure mods. Just be suspicious of any mod that replaces existing resources (items, spells) with new ones. Surprisingly, there aren't as many as one might think, however.

 

A lot of mods don't overwrite existing game files necessarily, but they overwrite each other's files. This is particularly true in the case of mods that add animations, and there's not much that can be done about it aside from reorganising the whole slot system, as slots are limited.

 

And yes, some BWP players on SHS have reported success and fewer issues by putting Ascension and Tactics before the Fixpack.

 

Oh, and I almost forgot... add anything by Demivrgvs to that list :fish:. To be fair, AD Pack also overwrites and is currently listed toward the end of the Tutu install list. It should really be moved up near the beginning, probably after the Degreenifier, and perhaps replaced by Demivrgvs's Spell Revisions, which he says is essentially a replacement and improvement on AD Pack.

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Oh, and I almost forgot... add anything by Demivrgvs to that list :fish: . To be fair, AD Pack also overwrites and is currently listed toward the end of the Tutu install list. It should really be moved up near the beginning, probably after the Degreenifier, and perhaps replaced by Demivrgvs's Spell Revisions, which he says is essentially a replacement and improvement on AD Pack.
Actually I've always installed ADPack toward the end of really extensive lists of mods without a single problem, and that is true for my mods too, even if you don't like to admit it's possible. :O
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Actually I've always installed ADPack toward the end of really extensive lists of mods without a single problem, and that is true for my mods too, even if you don't like to admit it's possible. :fish:
No one ever said it wasn't possible; it just isn't as inter-compatible with other mods. And actually, overwriting is less prone to errors than patching. It's quite easy to get one offset or datatype wrong in an item or spell patch, whereas it's quite difficult to mess up a COPY ~mymod/sw1h01.itm~ ~override~ (unless you're Icen :O).
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Let me try to re-phrase my second question. In my original post, I already implicitly agreed that overwriting would be "destructive" of the existing files because it replaces them.

 

What I'm trying to understand is what is the benefit of patching a file rather than overwriting because in both cases (overwriting or patching) the player would still see the item as changed by the last patch or overwrite that was made when installing a group of mods that happened to have modded the same item. From the players' perspective, it would seem that patching or overwriting has the same outcome - the item ends up behaving in the way that the last mod installed changed it. Why would you as a modder choose patching instead of overwriting?

 

Trying not be dense, but only Icendoan's reply came close to answering question 2.

 

Thanks,

 

John

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What I'm trying to understand is what is the benefit of patching a file rather than overwriting because in both cases (overwriting or patching) the player would still see the item as changed by the last patch or overwrite that was made when installing a group of mods that happened to have modded the same item.
Ok. I guess what no one mentioned is that patching (usually) changes only particular bits of a file at the field level, whereas overwriting changes the whole thing, by definition. So in theory, you could have practically any number of patches coexisting for the same item or spell - as long as they're doing different things. On the other hand, you can only have one overwriting mod apply to a file - the last one.

 

To give a practical example, let's say you have mod A that revises a bunch of standard items (not to mention names :fish:) and mod B that just adds new animations to certain items; let's say one that gives throwing hammers new animations. Well, mod A overwrites and mod B patches just the animation field for the items. This is fine if you install B after A, but if you install A after B it'll overwrite B's changes. Let's say further you have mod C that raises or lowers the price of all items, including hammers. No problem if you install it before or after B, since they both patch but do different things. But again, you must install it after A, otherwise A will overwrite C's changes for the items it touches.

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OK. I can start to see some of the benefit. Also, that the benefit is for the work you do as a modder because the choice of overwrite or patch is transparant to me as an enduser (player).

 

It seems like you as a modder still have a conflict when two mods want to mod the same item in the same field, so that say one of two mods effectively overwites the patch of another mod installed earlier. Does that happen often? Stupid question in part because everyone discusses compatibility but as a user all I seem to focus on is the general description of problems rather than specific technical details. :fish:

 

Thanks,

John

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Also, that the benefit is for the work you do as a modder because the choice of overwrite or patch is transparant to me as an enduser (player).
Actually, the benefit is to the player, so he can install multiple mods with minimal conflicts. As I mentioned above, it's much easier for a modder to overwrite than to patch, and patching has no real benefits to modding aside from making the changes a bit more transparent to the modder.
It seems like you as a modder still have a conflict when two mods want to mod the same item in the same field, so that say one of two mods effectively overwites the patch of another mod installed earlier. Does that happen often?
I suppose it happens sometimes, but it's a lot less likely when patching than when overwriting. Also, the scope for collision is lessened with patches: that one field might have a conflict, but changes to other fields are preserved.
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Actually I've always installed ADPack toward the end of really extensive lists of mods without a single problem, and that is true for my mods too, even if you don't like to admit it's possible. :fish:
No one ever said it wasn't possible; it just isn't as inter-compatible with other mods. And actually, overwriting is less prone to errors than patching. It's quite easy to get one offset or datatype wrong in an item or spell patch, whereas it's quite difficult to mess up a COPY ~mymod/sw1h01.itm~ ~override~ (unless you're Icen :O).

 

Hah. I got COPY on my first ever try at WeiDU, tyvm. I mess up PATCH_IF and FOR and all the rest though. Heck, I got seriously bored today and wrote an extractor with WeiDU for any file which can save file paths for you.

 

Patching also reduces download time if you are copying one hell of a lot of items.

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