Random stuff

[Jarno Mikkola]

IIRC, Disintegrate and the Nishruu spells were the only spells that could potentially do such a thing. (through different methods, i guess)

What about Icestorm?

Hih.

[SirLancelot]

Yeah, i forgot them. However, you are right about Ice Storm and Flesh to Stone, but Imprisonment just bury the equipment into the ground.

 

Anyway, my idea is still valid. There are quite a few fire, lightning and so on spells out there and none of them destroy what the party or the computer carries.

[Salk]

The choice of not making objects destructable has a solid gameplay basis.

 

Think of a fireball cast at a mage carrying a piece of paper.

 

What should the odds of it remaining intact?

 

But some piece of papers are key items in the game as many others that might be classified as easily destructable.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Think of a fireball cast at a mage carrying a piece of paper.

What should the odds of it remaining intact?

well, it depends on the actual material of the paper, and if the temperature the fireball burns, as if it's less than 451, it's not gona burn, very likely. But still, if we are going to edit the game so the spells etc are going to damage the equipment more realistically, we would have to make all the equipment unique like in so many poorer games(read as the Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion), and make the items not matter if you have them or not, or give really good responses-

 

"Yeah, your baby, erhm, you see there was this mage and you know how they like the fireball spell. Well he casted one of those on us when we were coming to meet you here, and the child was cooked, well then we ¤%& his ¤&%¤ off. As we were leaving, we remembered the child and in horror we saw what had happened to it. The night came and as Korgan was... er, he offered to take good care of the boy, I was tired and had to sleep so I let him. So can we have that amulet now, you promised to us for this investigation, and could you give us some bread too, and no we don't need any meat, Korgan has had his breakfast already."

[SirLancelot]

The choice of not making objects destructable has a solid gameplay basis.

 

Think of a fireball cast at a mage carrying a piece of paper.

 

What should the odds of it remaining intact?

 

But some piece of papers are key items in the game as many others that might be classified as easily destructable.

 

Can't you mark such items as indestructible?

 

But still, if we are going to edit the game so the spells etc are going to damage the equipment more realistically, we would have to make all the equipment unique like in so many poorer games(

 

Why?

[Guest Guest_Bearwere_*]

I don't think there is a flag that can make objects indestructable

[Jarno Mikkola]

Can't you mark such items as indestructible?

And how many of those items are there? Thousand? Ten...

 

But still, if we are going to edit the game so the spells etc are going to damage the equipment more realistically, we would have to make all the equipment unique like in so many poorer games

Why?

Would you like it if all your equipment just puffs up to the air from the first magical attack? As the attack happens in Friendly Arms Inn or Beregost, the mage can have burning hand spell on, there goes your gold and your game . And the pay out.

Or we have to introduce a durability factor, thus unique equipment, on the coding side at least.

[SirLancelot]

Would you like it if all your equipment just puffs up to the air from the first magical attack? As the attack happens in Friendly Arms Inn or Beregost, the mage can have burning hand spell on, there goes your gold and your game . And the pay out.

Or we have to introduce a durability factor, thus unique equipment, on the coding side at least.

 

Well, i'm pretty sure this could be simulated through scripting in a very similar way as the "extended iron shortage BGT component" works.

 

That way you could be able to assign a fixed or semi-random percentage to establish the chances to destroy a determinate type of object everytime its owner is hitted.

 

And how many of those items are there? Thousand? Ten...

 

Then i guess you can just skip those items from the scripting blocks checks and you are fine.

 

Maybe i'm wrong, but it seems not so difficult to achieve, and it would lead to solve the problem of excessive loot in a more or less realistic manner.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Of course it might be reasonable if the mod would first use the P5's fix to get rid of the item destruction via the set spells etc. and then make only certain items to be susceptible to the spell destruction of certain spells... for example Fireball damaging all wood based weapons(just normal none magical)... and Firestorm damaging all weapons and armors under +2 magical enhancement level etc. (all partially depending on the spell elements and their real life effects, like fire on wood...acid on metal..., and level of the spell higher->greater)

 

Hmm, this will take a master coder to implement it right, without a performance hitches.

[BigRob]

The thing about fireballs and lightning bolts etc destroying items is that it gets immensely complex very quickly. As you observe Jarno Mikkola, probably too quickly to code easily or efficiently.

 

First up, is the equipment exposed?

 

Fair enough on equipped items, but most of your other stuff is going to be stowed away in pouches or boxes or backpacks or scrollcases and the like and so won't directly be exposed to the spell, with one or two exceptions based on the size of the items (large weapons and so on).

 

One thing that would make it easier is that according to the standard AD&D rules, if a character makes their saving throw for a spell, then all their equipment does too. That would cut out some pain, but then one would have to implement all the material saving throws for various spells to see if they break... the engine may not even be capable of doing it.

[Galactygon]

I couldn't resist.

 

Well, i'm pretty sure this could be simulated through scripting in a very similar way as the "extended iron shortage BGT component" works.

As in many things, .bcs files do not always do the intended work and can bring the game to a crawl with checks for every item in the game. .spl files do a much faster and cleaner job.

 

The thing about fireballs and lightning bolts etc destroying items is that it gets immensely complex very quickly. As you observe Jarno Mikkola, probably too quickly to code easily or efficiently.

 

This is not impossible to code. You could have the WeiDU executable go through every single item in the game and check if they are really scrolls (so it would affect mod items) and build an array of file names. Then proceed to patch every single fire damaging spell in the game to remove all items in the array on a failed saving throw.

 

I would not worry about where they are in the inventory, unless they are safely stowed in a scroll case.

 

I have similar stuff in mind for the next version of SpellPack.

 

-Galactygon

[DavidW]

Leaving aside the technical issues, I feel that this would probably be less fun in practice than meets the eye. It's a major aspect of the coolness of this kind of game that you get to collect cool stuff and use it, and I worry that widespread item destruction would lead to frustration and/or a lot of reloading.

 

Obviously that's not a decisive argument against, since it would presumably be an optional component in some mod.

[SirLancelot]

Leaving aside the technical issues, I feel that this would probably be less fun in practice than meets the eye. It's a major aspect of the coolness of this kind of game that you get to collect cool stuff and use it, and I worry that widespread item destruction would lead to frustration and/or a lot of reloading.

 

Obviously that's not a decisive argument against, since it would presumably be an optional component in some mod.

 

I agree. One should proceed with caution to do a good approach. However, i still consider the idea an interesting optional component to experiment with. And, depending on the method you choose to make it real, you should place it within a spellpack, AI or tweak mod.

 

Anyway, i want to note the difference between the party equipment and the AI equipment: there's not a single enemy in the whole game who owns such an incredible treasure. Sometimes it ruins realism.

 

I would not worry about where they are in the inventory, unless they are safely stowed in a scroll case.

 

I have similar stuff in mind for the next version of SpellPack.

 

-Galactygon

 

Great!