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Rare selection sounds


Miloch

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Exactly how rare are the rare selection sounds in BG2? These are the clips assigned to the select_rare slots, such as:

Aerie: "Must I?", "Uncle Quayle taught me well... I know I can be of great use to you!"

Jaheira: "You require nothing more?", "If you think it wise to do so. So much comes back to haunt us."

Imoen: "Right as rain.", "Just like old times. Well, except for the torture and all."

It's possible these aren't always "selection" sounds, but scripted or otherwise otherwise coded to appear at other times.

 

In BG1, the rare selection sounds were at the select_action slots 4 through 7, and could (apparently) be triggered by clicking on the NPC 9 times in a row (what Dan Simpson calls "repeated selected" sounds in his walkthrough). I believe these slots are just as common (or nearly so) in the BG2 engine as the first 3 SELECT slots. EasyTutu eliminates them, though I think earlier Tutu builds had an option to preserve at least some of them. I believe BGT retains them as is; some of them probably sound a bit out of place if they fire commonly. Also, Tutu moves some clips to the dialog_default slot, though it was empty in BG1 so I'm not sure what the point of that is. I am looking into a possible way to replicate the BG1 behaviour in the BG2 engine.

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I'm not sure how rare they are in BG2... I recollect hearing Imoen say the two lines you cited above fairly often, though. How rarely is hard to say...

 

I really like the BGT component that has NPCs using their rare sounds as selection sounds. If that can be done for BG2 that'd be great.

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I'm not sure how rare they are in BG2... I recollect hearing Imoen say the two lines you cited above fairly often, though. How rarely is hard to say...
Are they selection sounds though, or does she just spout them at random?
I really like the BGT component that has NPCs using their rare sounds as selection sounds. If that can be done for BG2 that'd be great.
Which component is that? I don't see anything like that in either core BGT or BGTTweaks.

 

If you mean how BG1 NPCs say their rare sounds more frequently in BGT (and they don't at all in Tutu) then yes, that's standard engine behaviour I described above. The only difference is Tutu removed references to the rare sounds and BGT didn't. I'm not sure how you'd want that for BG2 though, because the BG1 and BG2 soundsets are different, and a lot of the BG2 sets are already full (Imoen's selection sounds are, for example).

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Guest Guest_Lemernis_*
I'm not sure how rare they are in BG2... I recollect hearing Imoen say the two lines you cited above fairly often, though. How rarely is hard to say...
Are they selection sounds though, or does she just spout them at random?
I really like the BGT component that has NPCs using their rare sounds as selection sounds. If that can be done for BG2 that'd be great.
Which component is that? I don't see anything like that in either core BGT or BGTTweaks.

 

If you mean how BG1 NPCs say their rare sounds more frequently in BGT (and they don't at all in Tutu) then yes, that's standard engine behaviour I described above. The only difference is Tutu removed references to the rare sounds and BGT didn't. I'm not sure how you'd want that for BG2 though, because the BG1 and BG2 soundsets are different, and a lot of the BG2 sets are already full (Imoen's selection sounds are, for example).

 

Yep, that's what I was referring to.

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Exactly how rare are the rare selection sounds in BG2? These are the clips assigned to the select_rare slots, such as:
Aerie: "Must I?", "Uncle Quayle taught me well... I know I can be of great use to you!"

Jaheira: "You require nothing more?", "If you think it wise to do so. So much comes back to haunt us."

Imoen: "Right as rain.", "Just like old times. Well, except for the torture and all."

It's possible these aren't always "selection" sounds, but scripted or otherwise otherwise coded to appear at other times.

 

In BG1, the rare selection sounds were at the select_action slots 4 through 7, and could (apparently) be triggered by clicking on the NPC 9 times in a row (what Dan Simpson calls "repeated selected" sounds in his walkthrough). I believe these slots are just as common (or nearly so) in the BG2 engine as the first 3 SELECT slots. EasyTutu eliminates them, though I think earlier Tutu builds had an option to preserve at least some of them. I believe BGT retains them as is; some of them probably sound a bit out of place if they fire commonly. Also, Tutu moves some clips to the dialog_default slot, though it was empty in BG1 so I'm not sure what the point of that is. I am looking into a possible way to replicate the BG1 behaviour in the BG2 engine.

I think these are "command" sounds, not "selected". The frequency seems to be more or less equal when you repeatedly select a character and issue a command, but the sequence starts over when you make a break, so sounds in higher slots are fired less frequently. That's my impression, at least. Anyway, I don't know how are you going to restore the BG1 behavior (and see no point to, as for me more diversity means better)

 

For BGT it might be neat to add the BG1 sounds (some of them, at least) to the SoA soundsets so that you can continue to hear them throughout the entire story.

well, there's soon will be a mod that includes such a component. Meanwhile, you could check my signature)

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I think these are "command" sounds, not "selected". The frequency seems to be more or less equal when you repeatedly select a character and issue a command, but the sequence starts over when you make a break, so sounds in higher slots are fired less frequently.
Right, well the select_action sounds are for when you tell someone to do something. Or are you talking about the select_rare slots too? If so, what do you mean by "higher" slots?
Anyway, I don't know how are you going to restore the BG1 behavior (and see no point to, as for me more diversity means better)
Well, I moved a couple of the select_action4-7 to the select_rare slots (the two that were the least appropriate elsewhere). These slots were either empty in BGT or duplicates in Tutu. In most cases the other two select_actions (at least) weren't really appropriate as select or action sounds, but they did make good insults, specials or occasionally battle cries. So basically, I just finished what you started with interactions :laugh:.

 

The coding sucked, because although I could READ and WRITE the references as you had done for BGT, they aren't referenced in Tutu so I had to SAY the full text for them all if Tutu is detected :).

 

Now I just need to figure out what you're doing with adjusted_sounds.tph... I got a few errors with missing files, so I'm going to pass it to ACTION_FOR_EACH/ACTION_IF FILE_EXISTS_IN_GAME loops instead of using the ALLOW_MISSINGs. Eh... and I suppose I need to append any INSULT, COMPLIMENT or RESPONSE clips I added?

For BGT it might be neat to add the BG1 sounds (some of them, at least) to the SoA soundsets so that you can continue to hear them throughout the entire story.
well, there's soon will be a mod that includes such a component. Meanwhile, you could check my signature)
Yeah, the revised version is going in the next Mix-Mod and also a DS-enabled version in DSotSC.
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Right, well the select_action sounds are for when you tell someone to do something. Or are you talking about the select_rare slots too? If so, what do you mean by "higher" slots?

I call "select" a sound fired when you select a character a "command" fire when you tell him something to do. "Higher" by number, as they appear in DTLCEP/NI.

 

Well, I moved a couple of the select_action4-7 to the select_rare slots (the two that were the least appropriate elsewhere). These slots were either empty in BGT or duplicates in Tutu. In most cases the other two select_actions (at least) weren't really appropriate as select or action sounds, but they did make good insults, specials or occasionally battle cries. So basically, I just finished what you started with interactions :).

 

The coding sucked, because although I could READ and WRITE the references as you had done for BGT, they aren't referenced in Tutu so I had to SAY the full text for them all if Tutu is detected :laugh:.

well, you obviosly have lots of dedication). Good... for us who have not :laugh:

 

Now I just need to figure out what you're doing with adjusted_sounds.tph... I got a few errors with missing files, so I'm going to pass it to ACTION_FOR_EACH/ACTION_IF FILE_EXISTS_IN_GAME loops instead of using the ALLOW_MISSINGs. Eh... and I suppose I need to append any INSULT, COMPLIMENT or RESPONSE clips I added?

As BG2 runs faster than BG1, responce to insult happens to begin before the insult ended, causing them to overlap. Sounds not very good, so basically I just lengthen sound clips so that the game thinks the insult is still running (and it is running, in fact). "Lengthening" is made in the most dumb way - padding with nulls to the needed length (which is based on framerate and determined empirically). Of course, some decomression/compression routine included. And obviously, it only concerns insults and compliments, but not responces and specials (halves the work=)).

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I call "select" a sound fired when you select a character a "command" fire when you tell him something to do.
Right, select_common = "select" sounds, and select_action = "command" sounds by your definition. I just didn't know which you would classify select_rare as.
"Higher" by number, as they appear in DTLCEP/NI.
So you're saying select_action7 should fire less frequently or select_action1? I thought in BG2 they were all weighted roughly the same, as opposed to BG1 where the 4-7 slots are quite rare (based on repeated selecting).
And obviously, it only concerns insults and compliments, but not responces and specials (halves the work=)).
Ok, that's kind of what I thought. I can't think of a better way to do this outside of hacking the .exe (not that that'd be better necessarily, if we could even figure it out).
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Well, I got this working for Tutu and BGT I think, using an array and ACTION_PHP_EACH for all the soundclips. I'll probably change the DOS batch files to use IF EXIST too for consistency, in case any are missing. The encoding/decoding routine with all the multiple formats is pretty heinous, but I suppose nothing much can be done about that. Maybe using DECOMPRESS_INTO_FILE instead? But I suppose WAVCs are not zlib compressed so probably not.

 

Anyway, on both my Tutu and BGT installs, the default frame rate is 30, same as BG1. So I assume your frame rate component is only for people who have increased the setting in baldur.ini? Why not just read the frame rate in baldur.ini and pass that as a variable to the adjusting routine directly? Or was the intention to give players some control in case they plan on changing it later? At the least, this should be auto-skipped if the frame rate is under 40, or a message should display saying it's not necessary unless the player plans on increasing it later.

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So you're saying select_action7 should fire less frequently or select_action1? I thought in BG2 they were all weighted roughly the same, as opposed to BG1 where the 4-7 slots are quite rare (based on repeated selecting).

My impression is that they are of the same frequency, but only in repeated selecting (you don't get select_rare on the first-second-third selection, which makes them appear more rarely in the game).

 

Well, I got this working for Tutu and BGT I think, using an array and ACTION_PHP_EACH for all the soundclips. I'll probably change the DOS batch files to use IF EXIST too for consistency, in case any are missing. The encoding/decoding routine with all the multiple formats is pretty heinous, but I suppose nothing much can be done about that. Maybe using DECOMPRESS_INTO_FILE instead? But I suppose WAVCs are not zlib compressed so probably not.

can't find DECOMPRESS_INTO_FILE in weidu documentation. .wavc are .acm with an additional header. They might be compressed with zlib, and might be not. Only Bioware and authors of acm2wav know).

 

 

Anyway, on both my Tutu and BGT installs, the default frame rate is 30, same as BG1. So I assume your frame rate component is only for people who have increased the setting in baldur.ini? Why not just read the frame rate in baldur.ini and pass that as a variable to the adjusting routine directly? Or was the intention to give players some control in case they plan on changing it later? At the least, this should be auto-skipped if the frame rate is under 40, or a message should display saying it's not necessary unless the player plans on increasing it later.

Because it's so microsoft-style deciding what the user needs and what he doesn't? I usually install BG, then install mods, then start adjusting setings to my liking (okay, I actually have a full clean backup with needed settings, but while I wasn't a modder, I hadn't). I wouldn't use autoskipping because of the same reason, but a message would surely be suitable.

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can't find DECOMPRESS_INTO_FILE in weidu documentation.
It's there, about halfway through (section 8). It was added a few releases ago, so maybe you had an older version.

 

I can get it to work for BAMs using this:

COPY_EXISTING ~isw1h37.bam~ ~override~
 READ_LONG 0x8 ulg //Uncompressed length
 DECOMPRESS_REPLACE_FILE 0xc (~%SOURCE_SIZE%~ - 0xc) ulg
BUT_ONLY

But on WAVCs, I just get a file of the uncompressed length padded with zeros.

COPY_EXISTING ~womco01.wav~ ~override~
 READ_LONG 0x8 ulg //Uncompressed length
 READ_LONG 0xc clg //Compressed length
 DECOMPRESS_REPLACE_FILE 28 clg ulg
BUT_ONLY

Doubtless I'm not doing something right though with reading and decompressing the data at the right offsets. Or maybe it's not zlib compressed. You'd think maybe it'd give an error if that was the case though.

Because it's so microsoft-style deciding what the user needs and what he doesn't?
In other words:
Or was the intention to give players some control in case they plan on changing it later?
:)

 

In any case, this isn't necessary if the user hasn't changed the default frame rate, right? I somehow thought it was, because the BG2 engine runs faster anyway...

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It's there, about halfway through (section 8). It was added a few releases ago, so maybe you had an older version.

weird, I searched there with ctrl-f, but missed it.

Actually, if you really want to know, you could ask Avenger - DTLCEP and GemRB do handle these files, right? Or look at GemRB source. Though I'm not sure it would be any easier than just using acm2wav).

 

In any case, this isn't necessary if the user hasn't changed the default frame rate, right? I somehow thought it was, because the BG2 engine runs faster anyway...

Yes, I just checked, the default setting is 30 fps, and those who use it, don't need adjusting the clips.

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Actually, if you really want to know, you could ask Avenger - DTLCEP and GemRB do handle these files, right? Or look at GemRB source. Though I'm not sure it would be any easier than just using acm2wav).
DLTCEP does have utilities to convert between WAVC, WAV and ACM, but I doubt I could read the source code. I could try I guess, though no, I don't know if it's much different from acm2wav etc. Mainly I was wondering if it could be done just with WeiDU, then it would save having to use batch files and probably be quicker.

 

I also don't understand why the IESDP doesn't detail the ACM format, because it's a "proprietary" format. Heh, isn't just about every other format in the game (and described by the IESDP) with the possible exception of BMP, WAV and maybe a couple others?

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