Feedback

[Demivrgvs]

Question: Does the IR need more Ioun Stone .bams, cause I added few to here, and you are free to use them. And if you would like more just ask, I can try to make them.

I'm not planning to add any new Stone as there are already too many of them around imo, but I think vanilla's Ioun Stones are already covered. If I used a wrong color/bam for a Ioun Stone let me know.

[Lollorian]

Heya

 

About vanilla Iouns, Malla's Soul Stone (AMSOUL01) isn't made hovery by IR I'll just say thank you again for the bams and scurry away then

 

(PS: And there are unused blue floaty ioun animations in IR [iON1S, ION2S], probably cause there's no blue Iouns ... atleast in vanilla)

[Guest kk11]

Some feedback

 

 

A bit owerpowered wpns...

The club (forgot it's name, it's actually a leg anyway. Bone?) - description says that "Doom" effect doesn't stack, but it does. Combined with Celestial Fury or Vorpal sword this is lethal wpn

 

Haer'dalis sword - too strong too early

 

Armor with Necromany immunity (Death knight) - how about 25% res to Mag Damage instead? Uber powerful, a tad cheesy. who needs healing wearing this?

 

Amulet with immunity to level drain and death effects - I'd leave lvl drain immunity, +2 vs death

 

Amulet of power - nice tweak, but still... (perhaps +1 spell lvl 1-6? I had my fmc wearing this, very powerful very early, for a fmc. Even more for m/c)

 

Paladin's bracers - imo should be used by single class paladin and cleric. You can pick this up upon exiting city

Namhttp://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?act=post&do=reply_post&f=157&t=15592arra - oh my... too strong

Celestial Fury - still uber, even more than before

Short sword of Mask - this is powerful, even 2x so for a fighter-mage - almost constant imp.invis.

Keldorn's armor

 

 

Some really nice tweaks:

gloves of the burlar - awsome, awsome

parrying gauntlets - decrease AC modifiers...wish for more items like this, I hate AC cap (and like Swahes a lot)

wonderous gloves

bands of focus - finally, appreciation of kensai. Love the description.

Malakar

Hindo's doom both

Yamato - I like it a lot

Equlizer

Ice Star

Cuttthroat - my favourite I guess

[Demivrgvs]

Some feedback

Cool.

 

 

Bone Club +3

The club (forgot it's name, it's actually a leg anyway. Bone?) - description says that "Doom" effect doesn't stack, but it does. Combined with Celestial Fury or Vorpal sword this is lethal wpn

Just checked, and Doom is indeed non-stackable, not only with itself, but with the cleric spell too, and other similar effects (e.g. Doomplate aura-like effect). This ability was one of the very few v2's weapon which already used spl files on-hit, allowing me to make it non-stackable.

 

The easiest way to rebalance it, if necessary, would be to add a save, and/or a reduced % chance to trigger.

 

 

Chaos & Entropy

Haer'dalis sword - too strong too early

One in particular or both? If I had to "nerf" them I'd reduce the bleeding damage of Chaos a little, and halve the duration's of Entropy's penalty to saves (to avoid huge stacking penalties). Have you something else in mind?

 

 

Death knight Armor +3

Necromancy immunity - how about 25% res to Mag Damage instead? Uber powerful, a tad cheesy. who needs healing wearing this?

I thought the drawbacks (wearer can't be healed, cured from diseases and poisons, ...) could partially balance it, am I wrong?

 

Magic damage resistance? Ohh, is it because most necromantic spells use 'magic damage type' (e.g. Cause Wounds, Minor Drain, Horrid Wilting, ...)? I never thought about it...though resistance to Magic Missile doesn't sound appropriate.

 

Should I make it a cursed plate with some additional drawback, or should we find another way to nerf it?

 

 

Periapt of Life Protection

Amulet with immunity to level drain and death effects - I'd leave lvl drain immunity, +2 vs death

As strange as it may sounds, I actually think +2 to saves vs. death wouldn't nerf it much. Player characters can easily reach incredibly good save scores, and saves vs death cover slay, disease and poison effects...while the current "immunity to death effect" only protects from slay effects (Finger of Death and Wail of the Banshee).

 

Note that this amulet doesn't work as a Death Ward spell, it doesn't grant immunity to Disintegrate or Flesh to Stone.

 

 

Amulet of power

nice tweak, but still... (perhaps +1 spell lvl 1-6? I had my fmc wearing this, very powerful very early, for a fmc. Even more for m/c)

I've "nerfed" it to lvl 1-4 spells, but now it raises wearer caster level by 2.

 

 

Paladin's bracers

imo should be used by single class paladin and cleric. You can pick this up upon exiting city

You mean I should not allow multiclass clerics?

 

 

Namarra +2

oh my... too strong

Wow, no one ever reported this... Do you play with SCS or not? I ask because I don't remember how well vanilla's AI reacted against Silence.

 

 

Celestial Fury +3

still uber, even more than before

Early on I probably agree...but is it really so powerful in the later part of the game?

 

Small tweak: it shouldn't stun golems imo.

 

 

Short sword of Mask

this is powerful, even 2x so for a fighter-mage - almost constant imp.invis.

That's because the weapon was designed with thieves in mind (1 attack per round), but yeah, in the hands of a fighter (single, multi or dual classed) the 20% chance to trigger II easily become an almost permanent effect.

 

 

Firecam Full Plate

Yeah, it's a bit overpowered. Actually a lot of NPC's items are overpowered (Edwin's amulet is the worst), and it's difficult to work on such equipment because it needs to remain useful for as much as possible, without being OP early on. Regarding Keldorn's armor, is it the resistance or the Retribution's damage that bugs you?

 

 

 

Some really nice tweaks:

gloves of the burlar - awsome, awsome

parrying gauntlets - decrease AC modifiers...wish for more items like this, I hate AC cap (and like Swahes a lot)

wonderous gloves

bands of focus - finally, appreciation of kensai. Love the description.

Malakar

Hindo's doom both

Yamato - I like it a lot

Equlizer

Ice Star

Cuttthroat - my favourite I guess

[Jarno Mikkola]

Amulet of power

I've "nerfed" it to lvl 1-4 spells, but now it raises wearer caster level by 2.

 

Death knight Armor +3

I thought the drawbacks (wearer can't be healed by spells and potions, cured from diseases and poisons, ...) could partially balance it, am I wrong?

As long as it's cursed, it's enough.

Hmm, how can you be cured by diseases and poison?

 

Celestial Fury +3

Small tweak: it shouldn't stun golems imo.

Hmm, yeah, it shouldn't stun the golems.

[Guest kk11]

tnx for quick reply. I play with scs, refinements (bloody awsome!!! ...just one buggy issue - kensai don't get hardiness HLA) and spell revisions (will write more about this).

anyway:

Bone Club - it applies THAC0 penalty constantly with every hit on oponnents

Haer Dalis - Entropy saves killing is a bit too much I think

Death Knight armor - pehaps penalty to Strenght?

Periapt of Life Prot - mages have alway quite bad save vs Death, but Refinements can change that so I guess it's ok as it is now

Amulet of Power - might be a little overpowered now with Refinements "Union" HLA of cleric-mages

Namarra - keen + silence? mage has to cast Vocalize if he has it wasting a round on that

Paladin Braces - true, only singe class.

[Demivrgvs]

tnx for quick reply. I play with scs, refinements (bloody awsome!!! ...just one buggy issue - kensai don't get hardiness HLA) and spell revisions (will write more about this).

My usual core install.

 

 

Bone Club - it applies THAC0 penalty constantly with every hit on oponnents

Now this is something I don't get...are you sure? How did you tested this?

 

Because I've re-checked and the spl file seems really fine.

 

 

Haer Dalis - Entropy saves killing is a bit too much I think

Point taken.

 

 

Amulet of Power - might be a little overpowered now with Refinements "Union" HLA of cleric-mages

I'm granting it a "caster level" bonus, not a "casting speed" bonus.

 

 

Namarra - keen + silence? mage has to cast Vocalize if he has it wasting a round on that

I added its PnP keen ability before having to make Wall of Silence an on-hit ability (it was an aura-like effect in v1), but you're right that I should at least reduce the chance by 5% if not completely remove it. Regarding Silence forcing mages to cast Vocalize...well, "wasting" a single round (which also makes the mage immune to any further Silence effect) doesn't seem so great to make this sword OP.

 

Otoh, what makes this sword really great imo is that clerics have no way to cure silence.

[Guest kk11]

I tested bone club by attacking my kensai-druid. her thac0 went up with each hit, not sure about AC, I think not . I killed Thax Shadow Dragon (f/m/c, kensai(9)-druid, swash and sorc) when my sorc was 12th lvl (SCS Thax) and Bone Club was amazing, Since Thax constantly missed. (note:I use Item randomizer from SCS).

Union - doesn't it also affects caster levels?

[Jarno Mikkola]

Union - doesn't it also affects caster levels?

Refinements v3.20 setup.tra

 

@512 = ~Union~

@513 = ~Union

A Cleric/Mage is blessed with the knowledge of two different kinds of magic. At high levels he can use the combination of arcane and divine arts and his understanding of the mechanisms of magic to forge a solid union. This appears as a powerful aura that grants beneficial bonuses to allies around him.

Each affected creature obtains 10% bonus to his Magic Resistance. Magic users benefit the most from this aura: their casting time drops by 1, while their effective casting level increases by 5.

Additionally, the Cleric/Mage himself gains immunity to spell failure effects and immunity to 1st and 2nd level spells for the whole duration of the ability, which is 1 hour.~

Yeah.

 

Amulet of Power - might be a little overpowered now with Refinements "Union" HLA of cleric-mages

Yeah, but I think 'the problem' is within the HLA.

But then again, it's a HLA, and the spells usually are capped at level 20.

[Demivrgvs]

Bone Club

I tested bone club by attacking my kensai-druid. her thac0 went up with each hit, not sure about AC, I think not . I killed Thax Shadow Dragon (f/m/c, kensai(9)-druid, swash and sorc) when my sorc was 12th lvl (SCS Thax) and Bone Club was amazing, Since Thax constantly missed. (note:I use Item randomizer from SCS).

Just tested it in-game, and the weapon is fine, no stacking Doom.

 

Edit: ...after looking at the old v2 you're right, the Protection from Spell opcode looks for dvcurse.spl instead of dvdoom.spl. I'm sorry, I forgot I fixed this for v3.

 

 

Amulet of Power

Amulet of Power - might be a little overpowered now with Refinements "Union" HLA of cleric-mages

Yeah, but I think 'the problem' is within the HLA.

Yeah, as Jarno says IR's +2 isn't an "issue" as much as Refinement's +5...it's not my fault if that HLA grants such a huge bonus. Refinement's ability never worked before (that's why I forgot about it) because Taimon fixed the relevant opcode only recently.

 

Edit: as Jarno says, it's not a huge issue, though it will make your spell much more resistant to dispel. Otoh, Union is cleric/mage only, thus you shouldn't reach sky high levels anyway.

[Guest Another Stupid Guest]

Hello,

 

On the overall i'm rather impressed with your mod, though obviously there are also things I disagree with (I guess it's hard to please everyone). So it's good that you implemented a system where players can remove any items they don't like by changing tp2 files.

 

However, there is one thing that I can't change and frankly it bugs me a bit. I mean the part of the first (major) component, which prohibits dual/multi class druids from using metal armor/helmets. Now RP-wise that may make sense (though frankly I don't quite get it), but the problem is it makes druids totally suck. Compare a new fighter/druid to a ranger/cleric... who is better in virtually every way (can wear metal armor and helms, can cast both druid and cleric spells etc). I'm not a big fan of druids myself (I prefer berserkers-mages) and so I'll still install your mod, but shouldn't you be trying to make various classes more balanced instead of less? I'm asking this because kensais who are good already get another bonus (wearing bracers), while druids who aren't powerful at all get another restriction. I really want this component to be optional.

 

Oh yes, and shouldn't gauntlets of extraordinary specialization be wearable by barbarians? Cause it's weird that fighters/ paladins/rangers can wear them while barbarians can't.

 

I know my spelling is terrible, but english is a foreign language for me, so I'm sorry about all the commas I missed.

 

Good luck!

[Demivrgvs]

However, there is one thing that I can't change and frankly it bugs me a bit. I mean the part of the first (major) component, which prohibits dual/multi class druids from using metal armor/helmets. Now RP-wise that may make sense (though frankly I don't quite get it), but the problem is it makes druids totally suck. Compare a new fighter/druid to a ranger/cleric... who is better in virtually every way (can wear metal armor and helms, can cast both druid and cleric spells etc). I'm not a big fan of druids myself (I prefer berserkers-mages) and so I'll still install your mod, but shouldn't you be trying to make various classes more balanced instead of less? I'm asking this because kensais who are good already get another bonus (wearing bracers), while druids who aren't powerful at all get another restriction. I really want this component to be optional.

Now, this is a common thought, but part of the problem is that the readme may be misleading, and that fully understanding the huge plan that is behind a Revisions mod is quite difficult: you can't judge a single item or component without taking into account many others aspects. I'll try to make myself more clear...

 

Druids can actually wear a lot more items than before, because IR allows them to wear medium and heavy armors made of "natural" sources such as Ankegh Plate, Ashen's Scale (made of wyvern's scales), and all Dragonscale Armors (which within IR are the most heavily enchanted armors!), as well as shields and helmets of natural sources (e.g. Dragonhelm and Dragonscale Shield). When it comes to Fighter/druid, than yes, I've restricted some items as it should (all multiclasses should), but while I agree vanilla's druid was unappealing (and IR improves it by granting him less restrictions) F/D surely isn't a weak class. Not to mention that IR allows fighter/druids to achieve grandmastery!

 

The problem is not the fighter/druid being weak, but the ranger/cleric class being very cheesy and overpowered due to bad implementation of AD&D rules. He shouldn't be able to cast druid spells, but only ranger's ones, thus up to 3rd lvl.

 

The same is true for kensais. The kensai itself surely isn't overpowered, but kensai/mage is, and allowing a single class kensai to wear bracers doesn't make kensages more powerful (as archmage robes can do the same), it only makes a single-class kensai less unappealing compared to a dualled kensage or a dualled kensai-thief (with the Use Any Item cheat).

 

 

Oh yes, and shouldn't gauntlets of extraordinary specialization be wearable by barbarians? Cause it's weird that fighters/ paladins/rangers can wear them while barbarians can't.

V3's Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization (now renamed Gauntlets of Weapon Mastery) are usable by them, and by almost any class.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Oh yes, and shouldn't gauntlets of extraordinary specialization be wearable by barbarians? Cause it's weird that fighters/ paladins/rangers can wear them while barbarians can't.

V3's Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization (now renamed Gauntlets of Weapon Mastery) are usable by them, and by almost any class.

That's the original Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization(brac21) in v3 are renamed as Gauntlets of Weapon Mastery, a mod added might not be and thus also not wearable by the same rules.

[Mike1072]

However, there is one thing that I can't change and frankly it bugs me a bit. I mean the part of the first (major) component, which prohibits dual/multi class druids from using metal armor/helmets. Now RP-wise that may make sense (though frankly I don't quite get it), but the problem is it makes druids totally suck. Compare a new fighter/druid to a ranger/cleric... who is better in virtually every way (can wear metal armor and helms, can cast both druid and cleric spells etc). I'm not a big fan of druids myself (I prefer berserkers-mages) and so I'll still install your mod, but shouldn't you be trying to make various classes more balanced instead of less? I'm asking this because kensais who are good already get another bonus (wearing bracers), while druids who aren't powerful at all get another restriction. I really want this component to be optional.

Like Demi says, it's unfair to compare fighter/druids and cleric/rangers, because a big part of the latter's effectiveness is due to a faulty engine implementation. IR's change to fighter/druid armor selection is based on the internal logic of the class, and with the light, medium, and heavy non-metal armours available to them, you should have plenty of good gear to go around unless you have more than a couple druids in the party. That being said, this change will be optional (though still highly recommended) in v3 of the mod, and if you really hate it, you can install this mini-mod on top of v2 to revert the behaviour.

 

If you think druids suck in general, you might want to look into Spell Revisions, which focuses on balancing spells rather than items, and it might make your druids more fun and viable (though it won't make cleric/rangers any less powerful).

 

Not to mention that IR allows fighter/druids to achieve grandmastery!

Since when?

[Demivrgvs]

Not to mention that IR allows fighter/druids to achieve grandmastery!

Since when?

Ops, I'm an idiot...for some reason while writing I thought it was part of the "Remove Cleric Weapon Restrictions from Multi-Classed Clerics" component. Anyway, that would be a great way to make fighter/druid shine imo.