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IR V2 release


Demivrgvs

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Thanks Raj, it's good to see players helping each other and it also allow me to post a little less and mod a little more. :)

 

That being said I'd like to explain why Belm and Kundane are a little too powerful, and expecially when dual wielded.

 

Belm vs. Varscona (or any other +2 weapon with elemental damage like Blackblood, Stonefire, ...)

 

- Single Weapon

Belm can potentially hit one more time per round, which for most characters means doubling the chances to hit the target, the additional attack grants additional 1D8+2+strength damage points of damage.

Varscona has half the chance to hit, but the elemental damage always triggers, thus the chances to deal additional damage are more or less the same, the additional damage is 1D6.

Even in the hands of a character with only STR 16 Belms has much more potential, 4-11 points of damage compared to 1-6.

 

- Dual Wielding

Here it's even more evident, let's take Belm+Varscona vs. 2x Varscona (Frostreaver+Stonefire would be the same for our comparison).

With Belm you have two attacks with Varscona and one attack with Belm.

Without Belm you would just have two attacks with Varscona.

The adavantage is a full attack per round more, without having to sacrifice anything from the other solution.

 

Thus I would assign to +1apr a "+2 enhancement bonus", while elemental damage is "+1".

IR's early available one handed weapons should generally be of +3 total enhancement bonus, except hard to obtain/quest items (e.g. Dragonslayer, FoA, ...).

 

Keep in mind that IR is not supposed to make the game easier, and some players do think that even with the numerous nerfed items IR may currently make the game slightly easier because of the hugely increased number of useful items. Actually, even though I've tried to not affect the game difficulty (except when nerfing the outrageously overpowered items), I'd prefer IR to make the game slightly harder rather than easier.

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That being said I'd like to explain why Belm and Kundane are a little too powerful, and expecially when dual wielded.

 

Belm vs. Varscona (or any other +2 weapon with elemental damage like Blackblood, Stonefire, ...)

 

Compared to other +2 weapons with added damage Belm and Kundane are indeed more ( too? ) powerful, and of the two Belm is incredibly easy to achieve.

 

Thus I would assign to +1apr a "+2 enhancement bonus", while elemental damage is "+1".

IR's early available one handed weapons should generally be of +3 total enhancement bonus, except hard to obtain/quest items (e.g. Dragonslayer, FoA, ...).

 

Making them both +1 shoudn't scandalize too many people I guess, there's already plenty of +2 shortwords and scimitars availabe early.

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Yes the only thing. If you take away 2spell/level to edwin and put the amulet of power on another mage with thieving skills and higher str/dex then what's the point of a pure mage.

 

Most Bioware NPCs are different to what a protagonist can be anyway, because they have abilities not availabe to you; Viconia has MR, Mazzy has paladin abilities, Sarevok has the deathbringer assault and poor frail Edwin has more spells. He is not a common wizard, he's a thayan red wizard and they are by background better spellcasters than the standard ones.

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Thus I would assign to +1apr a "+2 enhancement bonus", while elemental damage is "+1"...
Making them both +1 shouldn't scandalize too many people I guess, there's already plenty of +2 shortwords and scimitars available early.
Perhaps you Raj, understood that wrong... as as you both might talk about the same thing... but Demivrgvs talks about his internal (value) calculations, while you are talking about the (Belm and Kundane)weapons +1/+2 enchantment bonuses. :)

 

Now, when it comes to Belm, the most obvious example of it's might comes when it's given to a warrior that has already mastered many weapons(has 5 weapon proficiencies on all the weapons and styles, impossible yes, but he is given them for comparison), now if he is at level 25 for example, he has the basic +1 attack from levels 7 and 13, and the weapon proficiency bonus that gives him 2*+1/2 attacks more, so his base attack rate with any weapon is 3 per turn with any weapon he wields.

Now if he takes Axe of the Unyielding +5 as his primary weapon, he has that 3 attacks per round with it. Now, he can dual wield it or use other weapon with it, for example he takes the Varscona as his off hand weapon, he gains 1 attack more with it(Varscona). But if he puts Belm on the off hand, he gains 1 attack with Belm and one extra attack with the main weapon. That's unfair, as not even dual wielded 2*Axe of the Unyielding +5's can match the Belms probable damage output. Said probable -as not all the monsters are immune to +2 weapons but some are, and then there is the computerized probability...

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I understand his value calculation, and I was saying that lowering Belm and Kundane to +1 enhancement would make them +3 by that calculation.

 

Adding one extra attack to the main hand is unfair but it's how the game works so can't argue against that, if you want to keep the +1apr on those weapons.

 

Back to your example:

The value of Belm and Kundane is related to the value of the weapon you are wielding in the main hand, so it can be pretty high in the end game, but you are filling one slot with a item that has no special abilities and resistances so while Belm/Kundane+ a powerful weapon is indeed a too powerful combination for the whole soa game it lacks appeal late in tob.

With Axe of Unyelding and Belm in the hands of a skilled fighter you have 5 attacks, 4 of them made with the axe and one with Belm.

With Axe of Unyelding and Anguvardal you have 4 attacks, 3 of them with the axe and one with the sword.

The damage output is almost the same ( for sake of discussion let say Unyelding and Anguvardal have the same 'power' ) if you ignore the attack made with Belm; now, is that attack with a plain +2 weapon worth the abilities on the offhand weapon?

Early in the game there're not great weapons whose abilities are worth one attack, and a +2 hits almost everything, so Belm and Kundane are indeed overpowered.

I don't really care if their .ITM files get disintegrated ( heck I almost never use them ), I understand how they can be unbalancing given their location in chapters 2-3 ( and one day I wanted to have fun giving Kundane to Imoen who then casted a black blade of disaster and proceeded to decimate demons under a time stop, when it's time to cheese best do it well :) ) but I was arguing about them being THE off-hand weapon, the best ones availabe for the whole game. They are not, imo, but nerfing them can still be the good thing to do.

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Belm +2

I understand his value calculation, and I was saying that lowering Belm and Kundane to +1 enhancement would make them +3 by that calculation.

 

Adding one extra attack to the main hand is unfair but it's how the game works so can't argue against that, if you want to keep the +1apr on those weapons.

But keeping the +2 enchantment level and reducing the apr bonus to +1/2 would make the weapon much less exploitable, preserving its usefulness on its own.

 

Belm +1, +1apr: the apr would be as exploitable as before, and Belm itself woul be even weaker with -1 to attack rolls, damage, speed factor and enchantment.

 

Belm +2, +1/2apr: half an attack would be less exploitable by using another more powerful item in the main hand, and Belm itself would have +1 to attack rolls, damage, speed factor and enchantment.

 

Back to your example:

The value of Belm and Kundane is related to the value of the weapon you are wielding in the main hand, so it can be pretty high in the end game, but you are filling one slot with a item that has no special abilities and resistances so while Belm/Kundane+ a powerful weapon is indeed a too powerful combination for the whole soa game it lacks appeal late in tob. ... I don't really care if their .ITM files get disintegrated ( heck I almost never use them ), I understand how they can be unbalancing given their location in chapters 2-3 ... but I was arguing about them being THE off-hand weapon, the best ones availabe for the whole game. They are not, imo, but nerfing them can still be the good thing to do.

If I ever said Belm is "THE off-hand weapon" in the whole game I was wrong, but it probably is for most if not the whole SoA. Due to how it works in this engine +1apr is too much exploitable, and Belm/Kundane are too powerful for most of SoA (not to mention they also are too easily available considering their power).

 

Edwin's Amulet

As I've posted in its description in the Item Index: "I think it's highly overpowered. Maybe "nerfing" it to one extra spell for each level, and adding something else related to Conjurers or Red Wizards would be better, though I known many players will complain the loss of their beloved Edwin's endless spell slots. I've recently thought about one drawback to justify the augmented spell slots: Red Wizards are extremely specialized wizards and I may add one more Prohibited School to him via amulet". I'd like to know your opinion, or if you have any other suggestion.

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Guest Dirty Uncle Bertie

Take away 1 spell per level, yes, but please don't add another Prohibited School!

 

Well, unless others really want you to do this. I personally prefer more spell choice with my mages, but I can understand how some people may prefer less choice but more spells to cast.

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Take away 1 spell per level, yes, but please don't add another Prohibited School!

 

Well, unless others really want you to do this. I personally prefer more spell choice with my mages, but I can understand how some people may prefer less choice but more spells to cast.

Then they play Sorcerer's :)
Well, actually specialized mages are supposed to have a smaller choice compared to pure mages, but due to how they implemented wizard's kits the Conjurer is without doubts an "unbalanced" kit: +1 spell per level of any school except Divination (by far the most useless arcane school). The Conjurer in PnP would have two prohibited schools, and the +1 spell per level would have to be a Conjuration spell.

 

As it is now Edwin has +3 spell per level and his prohibited spells are Identify, Detect Invisibility, Clairvoyance, Dispel Illusions, Farsight, Oracle and True Sight. I'd say he pratically is a sorcerer who can choose from all spells when he wakes up in the morning, and I said all because except True Sight he surely won't miss the other spells.

 

That being said, I have to nerf the item, but if most of you are so radically against this solution we'll try to find something else.

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