IR V2 release

[Raj]

Having Edwin casting a lot of spells is not the most close to pnp way to emulate a red wizard benefits but is indeed his mark and the only thing that at the moment makes him a good spellcaster, if you only want to reduce the number of bonus slots I'd say it's a cheap solution.

Halving his bonus spells could be a solution only if you give him something in line with the character to balance it out.

 

Speed up casting time instead? Extra damage when a spell is cast? Healing for 1d8 every time a spell is cast? 1% chance of regaining a spell on casting one, +armour while casting, save penalty for his spells...

 

Icen

 

Of these, save penality for his spells seems the closer one to pnp ( I'm used to 3ed, no clue what are the 2ed rules about thayans ) if you could implement it.

Otherwise a +2 casting time on his amulet along with 1 bonus spell/level seems a easier solution and still good, because other mages can't combine the amulet of metaspell with the amulet of power so he could still keep something unique.

 

I woudn't mind having him losing another school, barring enchantment seems the more fitting one ( he's lacking some charisma afterall ), but the whole topic is more about a Kit Revision

[Icendoan]

I prefer the healing when a spell is cast, personally, as it makes him more interesting tactically, and more suited for longer battles with quick spells, instead of nuking everything within 4 rounds.

 

Icen

[Demivrgvs]

Speed up casting time instead? Extra damage when a spell is cast? Healing for 1d8 every time a spell is cast? 1% chance of regaining a spell on casting one, +armour while casting, save penalty for his spells...

Of these, save penality for his spells seems the closer one to pnp ( I'm used to 3ed, no clue what are the 2ed rules about thayans ) if you could implement it.

Except Casting Speed bonus, none of Icen's suggestions are doable.

 

Having Edwin casting a lot of spells is not the most close to pnp way to emulate a red wizard benefits but is indeed his mark and the only thing that at the moment makes him a good spellcaster, if you only want to reduce the number of bonus slots I'd say it's a cheap solution.

Halving his bonus spells could be a solution only if you give him something in line with the character to balance it out.

 

I woudn't mind having him losing another school, barring enchantment seems the more fitting one ( he's lacking some charisma afterall ), but the whole topic is more about a Kit Revision

In PnP Red Wizards have even more prohibited schools than a specialist mage, but cast their favourite spells with increaed power. We can't reproduce the latter, but +1 spell per level seems at least as good as that. Regarding the prohibited school, Invocation would be the most appropriate one for PnP rules, but Enchantment does make sense considering Edwin's charisma and personality.

 

Regarding Kit Revisions' Specialist Mages, I'm not planning to add prohibited schools, but something like Divine Remix does with clerics: remove the +1 spell per level and "replace" each spell slot with an innate of the appropriate school. Perhaps some special feature to even the odds (e.g. Enchanters immunte to charm from 17th level). Just to tease you.

[Icendoan]

How about storing an improved CC (IE, take 9th level spells or has four slots, ect?) in it?

 

Icen

[Demivrgvs]

I'll just throw in many random things (some are already implemented, others not yet), so that you can help me with the huge refining and rebalancing work I'm currently doing.

 

Amulet of Spell Warding: being it used in mage duels what about having it grant Protection From Spells (e.g. Silence 15' radius, Miscast Magic, Greater Malison, Lower Resistance, ...). Any suggestion?

 

Axe of the Unyelding +3/+4: both versions now grant +10 hit points instead of +1 CON, the +4 version no longer grants +2 to AC but "only" +1.

 

Ardulia's Fall +1: it's a hard to obtain item, I think we may give it a +2 enchantment.

 

Gnasher +2: slivers damage reduced from 8 to 4.

 

Flail of Submission +2: I'd give to the new flail one or two simple combat abilities: one could be Wounding (-1 to target's CON unless he saves vs. death), what about the other? Being FoA so easily available I would opt for not having a +1 enchanted Flail, as it would be pointless imo.

 

Gloves of the Burglar: I'd add something to make them appealing, what about reneming them Gloves of the Rogue and adding Precise Strike (+5% chance to score critical hits) while equipped.

 

Gloves of Healing: what about something completely new? Cure 1 hit point on a succesfull hit instead of Renegeration while equipped.

 

Gauntlets of Weapon Skill/Expertise/Specialization: as I said I don't like items which are just improved versions of one another. What about making them so that they grant different combat style bonuses? One could give a Parry ability (+ AC vs. melee weapons), the other one could give Power Attack (-x thac0, +2x damage), and the last one Flurry of Blows (+1/2 apr and maybe something else too). What do you think?

 

Silvan Chain +2: instead of the common bonuses it now has, what about +2 AC and saves against unnatural creatures (monsters and undead), and maybe letting it be usable by druids and Beastmasters?

 

Cloak of Displacement: I have to remove the "cast spell on condition" effect. Its current abilities are +2 to AC and 1 sort of blurred stoneskin per encounter. I may add something like +x AC vs. missiles and split the bonuses between "while equipped" and a "cast spell once per encounter" header.

 

Helm of Glory: unfortunately I have to remove the "cast spell on condition" effect. Granting Bless while equipped is quite less than before...any suggestion?

 

Staff of Rynn +3: Mike suggested me a really cool ability, which involves adding a ranged ability. I'd personally make it fire a magic missile! I'm opening the elemental staffs to fighters, thus restricting this one to mages if we add such ability would be appropriate.

 

Staff of Air/Earth/Fire +2: what about making them slightly more geared toward melee fight? The Flaming property of the Staff of Fire is fine imo, perhaps an Entangle ability on hit for the Staff of Earth, and something related to a small Whirlwind for the Staff of Air. Let me know.

 

Rashad's Talon +2: it probably needs to be slightly nerfed, I may either remove one of its abilities (Sunder Armor, and Cleave) or keep both of them reducing their effectiveness (e.g. shorter duration, lower %, ...).

 

Ilbratha +1: unfortunately I have to remove the "cast spell on condition" effect, thus I either make the Blur effect permanent (which is annoying imo), or I have to find another ability tied to the Illusion school. A +1 to AC plus 5% chance to cast Mislead? Alternatively I may simply replace the blur effect with a semi-invisibility one (translucent effect), and we may also tie the Mirror Image effect to the attacks (you know I don't like spell headers on weapons because they can be used without having the weapon equipped).

 

Blade of Roses +1: I have to remove the "cast spell on condition" effect, but in this case I prefer it anyway. The Singing Sword effect will be appplied swinging the blade in battle (on hit) instead of just by equipping the sword. The Immunity to Silence has been removed, and the Charisma bonus is too easily exploitable imo, thus a +1 should be enough.

 

Namarra +2: unfortunately I have to remove the "cast spell on condition" effect, and make it cast Silence 15' radius on hit (which may have a higher chance to affect the target actually, but can be blocked via PfMW).

 

Purifier +4/+5: I'd like to remove the Dispelling property in order to keep Carsomyr more appealing (it has to be). Any suggestion? Chance to cast Holy Word on hit?

 

Spider's Bane +2: Free action reduced to immunity to web effects, added immunity to poison.

 

Sword of Chaos +2: no more vampiric effect. Immunity to fear, and either +6 damage vs. lawful creatures or +2 vs. non-chaotic, +4 vs. lawful. Any other suggestion?

 

Carsomyr +4/+5: it still needed to be nerfed imo. On the +4 version I've reduced Magic Resistance by 5% (down to 20% which is still a great amount), and the damage vs. evil creatures is reduced from 6 to 3 (still better than vanilla's +5 vs. chaotic evil only). The upgraded Carsomyr will have +5% magic resistance, +3 damage vs. evil and the old improvements to Dispelling abilities. I have to remove the "cast spell on condition" effect, thus no more Holy Aura. It's still the most heavily enchanted 2handed sword, but I think now it finally is "balanced".

 

 

Don't be shy and throw in any suggestion you'd like to see implemented, I may have no time to reply to all, but I'll surely read and take into account anything.

[Jarno Mikkola]

1)Gauntlets of Weapon Skill/Expertise/Specialization: ...one could give Power Attack (-x thac0, +2x damage). What do you think?

 

2)Silvan Chain +2: instead of the common bonuses it now has, what about +2 AC and saves against unnatural creatures (monsters and undead), and maybe letting it be usable by druids and Beastmasters?

OP, OP, OP.

"Or what do you say, let's make a backstab with the Blade of Stars+5?"

"Ok, but let me do it, I am a Kensai(16)->Thief(20)."

"Yeah, so remember to use the Kai."

"What?, it's not like it's going to stand there much longer, is it? As I did a few damage calculations on the floor..."

(((5' + ((1 + 6'') / 2) + 4''') * 5'''') + 5''''' + 5'''''')* 3 = 217.5 average damage just from the backstab.

 

5', from the weapon +5

6'', because the dragon is kinda large creature, and so the daggers do 1d6, not 1d4

4''', from the weapon proficiencies, with the 5 stars in the dagger.

5'''', backstab multiplier.

5''''', having the (18/91)great strength that I have.

5'''''', Kensai bonus.

 

2) Hmm, but why would a druid put on a metal armor? You really need to make a good story for that...

[Demivrgvs]

Jarno,

 

what the hell does the Kensai has to do with the Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise?! They can't use gauntlets, not even with IR.

 

Furthermore, dual kensai-thief is one of the cheesiest combo in the world, there's not a single DM on earth that would allow it in PnP (and I won't in Kit Revisions).

Exploiting "Use Any Item" to bypass Kensai's restriction is not only cheesy, it's cheating.

 

Regarding the Sylvan Chain I would have justified it by making it non-metallic, there are a many strange materials in a D&D world. Anyway, the most important thing is the equipped effect, its usabilities may stay unchanged.

[yarpen]

Gauntlets of Weapon Skill/Expertise/Specialization: as I said I don't like items which are just improved versions of one another. What about making them so that they grant different combat style bonuses? One could give a Parry ability (+ AC vs. melee weapons), the other one could give Power Attack (-x thac0, +2x damage), and the last one Flurry of Blows (+1/2 apr and maybe something else too). What do you think?

I liked them as they were looking in original. But...

... gauntlets of weapon skill should give bonuses as 1 star in weapon. So reduce penalties from lack of skill to 0.

... gauntlets of weapon mastery, yes yes yes, what do you think about item which grants 3 stars in all weapons? I know that if someone have 5 stars, it will be reduced - that's why it's fun. And available only for fighters.

But thief + UAI exploit... hm.

[Guest Guest]

Regarding items that can be thrown or used to melee, I remember reading something about you allowing us to switch between versions so that we could still dual wield (I only remember this being mentioned with regard to the Crom Faeyr). Do the other weapons that can be thrown or used to melee (e.g. Dagger of the Star +5) have the same option i.e. we can dual wield with them if we want?

[Ardanis]

what do you think about item which grants 3 stars in all weapons? I know that if someone have 5 stars, it will be reduced - that's why it's fun. And available only for fighters.

Btw that sounds good. Though I'd allow others to use it as well.

 

But thief + UAI exploit... hm.

Does anyone care? I mean, that's plain cheating imo. Besides, that's not hard to prevent, as UAI can't bypass 180 and 181 opcodes (can't use item), only usability flags. Still, I personally wouldn't bother.

[Icendoan]

Immunity To Opcode leaves them fairly thoroughly stuffed as well.

 

Icen

[Jarno Mikkola]

Jarno, what the hell does the Kensai has to do with the Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise?! They can't use gauntlets, not even with IR.

Hih.

 

So ok, let's not make him a Kensai, but a Fighter->Thief, with 20 in strength(potions )... we lost the 5''''''->0, but modify the 5''''' into 8'', so all in all we just lost 6' hit point damage as: (5''''''+5''''')*3=6' +(0+8'')*3. So that's still 211.5 per backstab hit. Now, NOW the question come, why didn't anyone pick the fact that the hit was a backstab, but everyone went for the Kensai's jugular on that combo.

 

-

[Ardanis]

I assume that *3 stands for a full round worth of successful hits with an active Assasination. Otherwise I fail to see the logic in the formula.

 

end_damage = [ ( weapon_header_damage + damage_bonus ) * backstab_multiplier + STR_bonus ] * critical_value + external_damage

 

Having +5 uberdagger, 5 stars in prof, 20 STR, 5 BS, 'power attack' worth +10 dmg (which imo is pretty high anyway) we'll get

 

( (1d6 + 5) + 4 + 10 ) * 5 + 8 = (8.5 + 14)*5 +8 = 112.5 + 8 = 120.5

 

Still far less than 200.

 

PS Whirlwinding with a powerful 2hander may as well yeld well over 300 dmg per round.

[Jarno Mikkola]

I assume that *3 stands for a full round worth of successful hits with an active Assasination. Otherwise I fail to see the logic in the formula. end_damage = [ ( weapon_header_damage + damage_bonus ) * backstab_multiplier + STR_bonus ] * critical_value + external_damage

1)Gauntlets of Weapon Skill/Expertise/Specialization: ...one could give Power Attack (-x thac0, +2x damage). What do you think?

Clear now? It comes from the gauntlets. So yes, if we over power him with Assasination and haste and Belm... Easy 2000 damage/round.

[Ardanis]

Well, I still am not sure about 2000, but who stops from having gauntlets to lower BS? It's even logical to me.